6MT Shifting Trouble and possible clutch getting old?

[dean.mohr]

Sitting at about 87x miles on my '12 6MT. In the last three or four months, I've gone from sometimes it is hard to push the shifter into a gear to about 75% of the time it takes two men and a baby to engage first. When I asked my dealer, he said nothing seemed out of ordinary, but this was a few months ago now.

The other issue I'm having (possibly related?) is that starting out, if I don't rev it above 2k rpm when taking off, or if I try to take off relatively quickly, it will give me a shake. Not sure if that is a clutch issue, but I experience absolutely no slippage otherwise. However, it does seem both of these problems have started around the same time.

That being said, has anyone on here replaced their own clutch? I know it is supposed to be an absolute nightmare...

[MrFunk]

The shake/chatter you experience with taking up the drive is somewhat normal unfortunately. In cold weather (winter) it will come and go for me. In the summer I don't experience it though.
Trouble getting it into gear sounds like perhaps like your pressure plate or fork? Others have had this issue and will probably be able to diagnose that better than me.

[fitzydude]

When my clutch went out it would be easy to shift when the car first started and then become progressively harder to shift when warmed up. After a long drive it would take five men and a baby to get it into any gear. Mine was changed at 90k btw.

If you take it to a shop just make sure they're reputable. Look what I found when we changed my motor mounts earlier this week

[dean.mohr]

The shake/chatter you experience with taking up the drive is somewhat normal unfortunately. In cold weather (winter) it will come and go for me. In the summer I don't experience it though.
Trouble getting it into gear sounds like perhaps like your pressure plate or fork? Others have had this issue and will probably be able to diagnose that better than me.

The chatter is exclusively when I try to launch. If I give it enough RPM, it doesn't happen. But under 2k it reliably happens every time (unless I'm super gentle). At this point I just assume it is the clutch.
If it is the pressure plate or fork I'd be glad, because that would mean I don't don't have to have anyone tear into the tranny to fix this issue!!

When my clutch went out it would be easy to shift when the car first started and then become progressively harder to shift when warmed up. After a long drive it would take five men and a baby to get it into any gear. Mine was changed at 90k btw.

Well this has already given me some confidence that it is just the clutch/associated hardware. What did you guys pay to have the clutch done? My dealer gave a ballpark of $3,000 so I immediately walked away and will be taking it to the local euro garage to have them look at it/quote me.

[sonic32]

Check out my thread. I'm at $2800 in parts without fluids so far for aftermarket flywheel/clutch and I'm quoted at over $1200 for labor


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[fitzydude]

I think between 900-1400 for labor would be a reasonable price to pay for a good shop. Btw my car developed a clutch engagement chatter when the motor mount broke, its gone now after replacement.

[jimrobbington]

I got screwed into paying $5000 through the dealer (including aftermarket parts)

[TappaNuKegga]

I think between 900-1400 for labor would be a reasonable price to pay for a good shop. Btw my car developed a clutch engagement chatter when the motor mount broke, its gone now after replacement.

Which motor mount ended up failing?

I believe I am getting some clutch engagement chatter but haven't been able to pinpoint cause to a dealer. Stealership assures me "that's how all S4 trans feel"

Feels like something is loose when clutch is engaged during gear changes, as if there's some play somewhere. Most noticeable when in reverse/1st at a standstill, then letting the clutch out quickly to the contact point. Clunk/***** sound everytime.

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[dean.mohr]

Check out my thread. I'm at $2800 in parts without fluids so far for aftermarket flywheel/clutch and I'm quoted at over $1200 for labor

$1200 for labor seems pretty reasonable, given that the standard protocol is to drop the drivetrain. I intend to replace with factory parts/something very similar. I am not hard on the car and dont see the need to spend extra on crazy strong clutches.

I got screwed into paying $5000 through the dealer (including aftermarket parts)

OUCH! I definitely can't swing 5k...

[S4_V6T]

For my JHM Kit:
I had the kit installed at a local Audi/VAG specialist and was quoted 8 hours labour + master slave cylinder + gearbox seal. We agreed on a £550 ( ≈ $800) fee.
The total time taken was around 10 hours (the extra 2 which I was not charged). So in total the cost of the Clutch/Flywheel + master slave cylinder + gearbox seal + installation came to £2250 ( ≈ $3350).

For my OEM Kit:
The total for a new clutch and flywheel came to £1250 ( ≈ $1850) inclusive of labour.

P.s. ≈ is approximately equal to

[LINDW4LL]

Yeah, labor is 8-9 hours. I was quoted $800

[TappaNuKegga]

For my JHM Kit:
I had the kit installed at a local Audi/VAG specialist and was quoted 8 hours labour + master slave cylinder + gearbox seal. We agreed on a £550 ( ≈ $800) fee.
The total time taken was around 10 hours (the extra 2 which I was not charged). So in total the cost of the Clutch/Flywheel + master slave cylinder + gearbox seal + installation came to £2250 ( ≈ $3350).

For my OEM Kit:
The total for a new clutch and flywheel came to £1250 ( ≈ $1850) inclusive of labour.

P.s. ≈ is approximately equal to

These numbers seems much more realistic than most number I've seen in this thread so far. My local independent shop quoted me at ~$800 for labor.

In the US we use the tilde “~“ to denote approximate values; we don't have a fancy approx-equal symbol on our keyboards!

The majority of clutch parts are fairly reasonable for our S4. The bulk of the cost of parts is due to flywheels being upwards of $1500 alone. Half of the time flywheels barely show any wear after the clutch has given up the ghost. Flywheels don't have to be replaced with every replacement clutch for the record guys.

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[sonic32]

These numbers seems much more realistic than most number I've seen in this thread so far. My local independent shop quoted me at ~$800 for labor.

In the US we use the tilde “~“ to denote approximate values; we don't have a fancy approx-equal symbol on our keyboards!

The majority of clutch parts are fairly reasonable for our S4. The bulk of the cost of parts is due to flywheels being upwards of $1500 alone. Half of the time flywheels barely show any wear after the clutch has given up the ghost. Flywheels don't have to be replaced with every replacement clutch for the record guys.

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I just wanna take the safe road and not worry about the flywheel potentially failing next because it's the stock weak DMF and I didn't change it when everything was apart, then another $1000-1200 for labor just to change the flywheel. Might as well pay labor once and do everything


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[TappaNuKegga]

I just wanna take the safe road and not worry about the flywheel potentially failing next because it's the stock weak DMF and I didn't change it when everything was apart, then another $1000-1200 for labor just to change the flywheel. Might as well pay labor once and do everything


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That's definitely the safest bet and least future headache route. In my experience my DMFs on my previous VWs and an ultrasport A4 lasted the life of the engine past 150k+ miles, but YMMV with driving style and city vs highway miles. Not familiar with S4s DMF reliability tho.

Flywheels typically give you plenty of fair warning when they're starting to go - you will definitely notice the chattering.

It's just a matter of whether you want to gamble and hold off if your current flywheel is fine and save ~40% on total cost of a reasonable clutch job, or pay the money to have complete piece of mind until the next clutch job.

My personal philosophy when it comes to maintenance and preventative maintenance is: if cost of future labor > cost of future part, replace it while you're in there.

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[RudyH]

In the US we use the tilde “~“ to denote approximate values; we don't have a fancy approx-equal symbol on our keyboards!

Americans are just lazy....hold ALT while typing 247 on the keypad ≈

On topic, obviously using a dual mass flywheel on the S4? *edit = DMF disregard*
OP issue doesn't sound like a clutch issue, would look at the master slave as well

[TappaNuKegga]

Americans are just lazy....hold ALT while typing 247 on the keypad ≈

On topic, obviously using a dual mass flywheel on the S4? *edit = DMF disregard*
OP issue doesn't sound like a clutch issue, would look at the master slave as well

There's a difference between being lazy and being efficient. Most Americans will not be pressing 4 buttons to insert a single symbol anytime soon.

Now that we're on the topic of dodging work, let's talk about the infamous English Tea-break. From my experience living in England for 8 years, the amount of time you guys spend taking tea breaks throughout the day is staggering. Worse yet, if you want a cuppa you have to ask everybody around you if they would like one also to avoid being labeled rude! When working over there I kept wanting to tell everybody to stop "faffing about" and get your work done already.

In my experience in both countries, Americans definitely work harder and for longer. Americans are anything but lazy. Don't forget you're pretty outnumbered in here too ;)

England's 4 week mandatory minimum vacation days per year was nice though! Definitely miss that...


'Murcia.


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[AKPS4]

Local shop here said the "book" shows 13 hrs but I was charged 8 hrs. Make sure you have all parts and tools if you plan to do yourself. I say it's not worth doing yourself unless you have loads of time and another car to use while you replace without rushing

[fitzydude]

Which motor mount ended up failing?

I believe I am getting some clutch engagement chatter but haven't been able to pinpoint cause to a dealer. Stealership assures me "that's how all S4 trans feel"

Feels like something is loose when clutch is engaged during gear changes, as if there's some play somewhere. Most noticeable when in reverse/1st at a standstill, then letting the clutch out quickly to the contact point. Clunk/***** sound everytime.

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Its usually the Passenger side mount that fails first, its taking most of the torque. My passenger side had ruptured and my driver's side was developing cracks.

[TappaNuKegga]

- - - Updated - - -

Its usually the Passenger side mount that fails first, its taking most of the torque. My passenger side had ruptured and my driver's side was developing cracks.

Gotcha thanks. Will check this weekend.

[dean.mohr]

Had the local Euro shop quote me... $1,000 for the flywheel, about $700 for the clutch, 9.1 hours labor. Total was somewhere around $2,600. Dealer wants $4,600 for the same.

Taking it in today. Going to have them use their judgement on the flywheel. I really, really can't afford the extra $1,000 righ tnow...

[jsh139]

Still curious as how a worn clutch disc would cause your symptoms. I mean, if the clutch surface isn't holding, you would think it would actually be easier to shift it, since it would be slipping and there would be less tension on the input shaft of the tranny. Like MrFunk said, it almost sounds like an issue with the pressure plate/clutch fork or maybe even a hydraulic issue (slave or master cylinder).

Keep us posted as to what the shop finds.

[dean.mohr]

Still curious as how a worn clutch disc would cause your symptoms. I mean, if the clutch surface isn't holding, you would think it would actually be easier to shift it, since it would be slipping and there would be less tension on the input shaft of the tranny. Like MrFunk said, it almost sounds like an issue with the pressure plate/clutch fork or maybe even a hydraulic issue (slave or master cylinder).

Keep us posted as to what the shop finds.

I agree, it doesn't seem like it would be the clutch, especially since I have no slippage. However, I'm not too heartbroken about replacing the clutch since it has made it almost 90k.

I will post back hopefully later today when they have an answer for me.

[dean.mohr]

Just heard back from the shop. They said that based on the fact that the clutch does not slip, they don't believe it to be the clutch. The first thing they want to try is a fluid swap ($197). I figured what the hell, I'll gladly spend that over $1800!

Looking at Audi's recommended maintenance plan, I don't see a single thing on there about fluid swap for manual trans cars, so I doubt it was ever done. 90k seems like a good time...

[BoostEasy]

Just heard back from the shop. They said that based on the fact that the clutch does not slip, they don't believe it to be the clutch. The first thing they want to try is a fluid swap ($197). I figured what the hell, I'll gladly spend that over $1800!

Looking at Audi's recommended maintenance plan, I don't see a single thing on there about fluid swap for manual trans cars, so I doubt it was ever done. 90k seems like a good time...

If you're ok with the fluid flush you might want to change the slave cylinder (hydraulic actuator that pushes the clutch fork) as well. These do go bad and I think the part is less than $200 and it should be fairly easy to change. You'd have to bleed the system when the slave cyl is changed.

If the clutch is chattering that's usually just age and the friction surfaces getting glazed or oil/moisture on some parts of it. I doubt that will go away without changing the clutch disc and at least sanding the friction surfaces to remove the glaze.

Given your mileage, it's probably time for a clutch change but I defer to the guys that have 6MTs here. I'm DSG.

[dean.mohr]

Went in yesterday to get the car, they said that the fluid change didn't fix it. They are changing the clutch today. I asked them to look at everything and make sure EVERYTHING is in spec and looking good.

[jimrobbington]

Went in yesterday to get the car, they said that the fluid change didn't fix it. They are changing the clutch today. I asked them to look at everything and make sure EVERYTHING is in spec and looking good.

I would very firmly suggest that you get EVERYTHING inside the bell housing replaced, including fork and throwout bearing

[mom4791]

There's a difference between being lazy and being efficient. Most Americans will not be pressing 4 buttons to insert a single symbol anytime soon.

Now that we're on the topic of dodging work, let's talk about the infamous English Tea-break. From my experience living in England for 8 years, the amount of time you guys spend taking tea breaks throughout the day is staggering. Worse yet, if you want a cuppa you have to ask everybody around you if they would like one also to avoid being labeled rude! When working over there I kept wanting to tell everybody to stop "faffing about" and get your work done already.

In my experience in both countries, Americans definitely work harder and for longer. Americans are anything but lazy. Don't forget you're pretty outnumbered in here too ;)

England's 4 week mandatory minimum vacation days per year was nice though! Definitely miss that...


'Murcia.


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Just an FYI, looks like that guy is from Ontario.

[dean.mohr]

The saga continues...

On Thursday they called me to tell me they got the parts in, it seemed to fix the problem.
...which they then followed up by telling me the tech broke my steering angle sensor, a part that they can only get from Audi and would take another week to arrive (presumably from Germany). I assume that when he had the front suspension dropped to pull the tranny, somehow the steering wheel got spun around and ruined the clockspring. To top it all off, on Friday on my way up to talk to them, I wrecked my spare car.

Fortunately, I was able to take a Wrangler from work for the weekend to shuttle me around to the junkyard and back to put my truck back together. Now its just my pride that is damaged.

In all seriousness, when I go to get the car back (hopefully Wednesday or Thursday), I am considering asking them for a 10% discount for my troubles. Obviously, they aren't charging me for the part they broke (or the labor associated with it, which combined is probably $500+) but I will have been without my car for 9 full days for them to do a quoted 9 hour repair.

[jygesq]

A discount certainly would be in order. They did not give you a loaner car?

[EHesh14]

Just heard back from the shop. They said that based on the fact that the clutch does not slip, they don't believe it to be the clutch. The first thing they want to try is a fluid swap ($197). I figured what the hell, I'll gladly spend that over $1800!

Looking at Audi's recommended maintenance plan, I don't see a single thing on there about fluid swap for manual trans cars, so I doubt it was ever done. 90k seems like a good time...

Make sure that the tech examines the fluid (I'm sure he would anyway) but mine with 85k on the clock had a bunch of metallic "powder" from wear. I added a magnetic drain plug where the fill point is, some liqui molly ceratec and some motul gear 300 for good measure....yet I still have the difficult to shift feel when my car is warm or its hot outside. clutch/flywheel swapped about 15k miles ago from a less than par shop. If your in Colorado stay away from Carter's Automotive. They didn't even bleed the system and messed up my linkage connection

[dean.mohr]

A discount certainly would be in order. They did not give you a loaner car?

I didn't press the issue because 1. I was in a good mood that day, and 2. I have a spare vehicle to drive around (at least until I rear ended someone Friday).

[dean.mohr]

Got the car back today. Total was $1800 and change for a clutch, cleaned up flywheel, and throwout bearing with a trans fluid change.

I'll admit...I'm going to have to completely learn how to drive it again. The clutch requires about 40% of the force it used to, the engagement is sharp, and the shifter almost falls in to place. It's nice but I'll be honest, I stalled it for the first time in over a year.

[jsh139]

Not bad. Resurfaced flywheel saved you a cool grand right there.

[dean.mohr]

Not bad. Resurfaced flywheel saved you a cool grand right there.

Yes. Yes it did. Though I'll probably re-do all the damage to it relearning how to drive this damn thing. I stalled again this morning. I've now officially stalled more in the last day than I have since the day I bought it.

[LINDW4LL]

Maybe I missed it, but what clutch did you go with?


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