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View Poll Results: Stock vs. Aftermarket Pistons

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  • New OEM Pistons

    4 30.77%
  • Custom Aftermarket Forged Pistons

    9 69.23%
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  1. #1
    Senior Member Two Rings Butler230's Avatar
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    Which would you choose - stock or aftermarket piston?

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    Quick Background - My 2012 A4 blew a piston at 40,000 miles and since it has a APR Stage 2 tune Audi won't cover the damage. The repairs are underway and all costs are out of pocket.

    My car is sitting at the shop with the engine pulled as I try to determine my next step. I've found new stock pistons & rings readily available for about $1,000 a set. However, I've also been searching out aftermarket options. Obviously Audi has some issues with it's pistons so I'm trying to decide if I would be better off in the long run waiting for a shop to custom manufacture a set of forged pistons for me.

    Audi changed the wrist pin in these engines in 2011 to a 23mm size, so none of the readily available aftermarket options will work. I've found a shop that can create a custom set for $650 plus an additional $150 if I wanted skit and crown coating. Lead time is 4-6 weeks and I've already been without the car for a month. Of course this is cheaper than the OEM option, but I'm hesitant to pull the trigger. Everything I've read makes me believe the forged pistons are a much better option, but I was wondering what you all might do in this instance?

    Anyone have experience with aftermarket pistons?
    Would you pay the extra $150 for coatings?
    For the purpose of resale, do you think non-OEM pistons would cause an issue?

    Lastly, does anyone know the recommended bore, stroke and compression for this pistons? These are numbers I'll need when/if I have something made.

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  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings adamazing's Avatar
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    If lead time isn't a deal breaker, forged all the way.



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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings lettuce's Avatar
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    I believe Mahle makes forged pistons for these motors with a 23mm wrist pin. Otherwise you can go with a 22mm and some rods. Keep in mind the machining you'll have to do on the block with aftermarket options. And if you get some made, make sure they have a stock-like dome top. Important for our direct injection motors.

    I believe stock compression ratio is 9.6:1 with an 82.5mm bore.
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  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings Lambda13's Avatar
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    Can't you get a complete motor out of a salvage car for less money than trying to rebuild everything?
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Two Rings Butler230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lettuce View Post
    I believe Mahle makes forged pistons for these motors with a 23mm wrist pin. Otherwise you can go with a 22mm and some rods. Keep in mind the machining you'll have to do on the block with aftermarket options. And if you get some made, make sure they have a stock-like dome top. Important for our direct injection motors.

    I believe stock compression ratio is 9.6:1 with an 82.5mm bore.
    Thanks, I read another of your posts regarding the domed piston. I haven't found anyone offering those yet, but I'm still searching. I spoke directly with a rep from Mahle and they told me to check with Integrated Engineering. I'm awaiting a reply from them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lambda13 View Post
    Can't you get a complete motor out of a salvage car for less money than trying to rebuild everything?
    Since I want to make sure I don't install an engine with oil consumption issues, I have to try to find a late 2011 or 2012 model. There aren't many readily available, but I did find a 20,000 mile version for $5,500. Install would run nearly $2,000 so I'm looking at approximately $7,500 for a used stock engine and no idea on previous history. The rebuild is only going to cost around $4,500 and that includes upgrading to ARP head, main and rod studs, a carbon cleaning, new chain tensioners and a possible upgrade to forged pistons.

    I'd love to just drop in a new motor and be on my merry way, but unfortunately it just isn't in the budget.
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  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings Lambda13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler230 View Post
    Thanks, I read another of your posts regarding the domed piston. I haven't found anyone offering those yet, but I'm still searching. I spoke directly with a rep from Mahle and they told me to check with Integrated Engineering. I'm awaiting a reply from them.



    Since I want to make sure I don't install an engine with oil consumption issues, I have to try to find a late 2011 or 2012 model. There aren't many readily available, but I did find a 20,000 mile version for $5,500. Install would run nearly $2,000 so I'm looking at approximately $7,500 for a used stock engine and no idea on previous history. The rebuild is only going to cost around $4,500 and that includes upgrading to ARP head, main and rod studs, a carbon cleaning, new chain tensioners and a possible upgrade to forged pistons.

    I'd love to just drop in a new motor and be on my merry way, but unfortunately it just isn't in the budget.
    Hmm, I've seen a couple motors for around $2,500.

    Or better yet, 1 year warranty, multiple options, all from a 2012. A bit more, but they have a warranty.

    http://www.automotix.com/usedengines...parts-all.html

    Just some ideas for you. Choose your adventure! haha
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  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings o1turbo30v's Avatar
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    Since cost and resale are important just buy oe Audi, if you where going to keep it long term buy forged.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings B8 S4's Avatar
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    Bore the bitch while you have a chance!
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Two Rings Butler230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambda13 View Post
    Can't you get a complete motor out of a salvage car for less money than trying to rebuild everything?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lambda13 View Post
    Hmm, I've seen a couple motors for around $2,500.

    Or better yet, 1 year warranty, multiple options, all from a 2012. A bit more, but they have a warranty.

    http://www.automotix.com/usedengines...parts-all.html

    Just some ideas for you. Choose your adventure! haha
    Thanks for those. I was just going off of what the shop had found for me. I honestly hadn't looked into it too much. Looks like I could do it for closer to $6K, but I think I'm still leaning towards keeping the original block.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Two Rings Butler230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B8 S4 View Post
    Bore the bitch while you have a chance!
    Don't think I'm not contemplating it. I just have to weight it all and see what options I have.

    Thanks for all the responses so far.
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  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings Dub_prime's Avatar
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    I would personally go for the beefed up internals to avoid issues in the future, but the parts are readily available for the 2010. I wouldn't be able to wait for the custom Pistons to be made, but you could do the aftermarket rods and Pistons with a 21mm wrist pin, doo eet!

  12. #12
    Senior Member Two Rings Butler230's Avatar
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    I talked with Integrated Engineering today and they offer an off the shelf option that includes both connecting rods and pistons. I'll also need new rod bearings too so it is definitely more expensive, but at this point I'm leaning towards going this route.
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  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings Dub_prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler230 View Post
    I talked with Integrated Engineering today and they offer an off the shelf option that includes both connecting rods and pistons. I'll also need new rod bearings too so it is definitely more expensive, but at this point I'm leaning towards going this route.
    I just have to say, if you are spending the money to set thing right, why not spend it the right way the first time.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Two Rings Butler230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dub_prime View Post
    I just have to say, if you are spending the money to set thing right, why not spend it the right way the first time.
    I agree.
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  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings Alex1188's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler230 View Post
    I talked with Integrated Engineering today and they offer an off the shelf option that includes both connecting rods and pistons. I'll also need new rod bearings too so it is definitely more expensive, but at this point I'm leaning towards going this route.
    Im pretty sure IE offers only 9.5-1 compression ratio while stock is 9.6-1
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  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings integroid's Avatar
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    There are pros and cons to forged pistons. Just make sure you know what you are getting yourself into before going the aftermarket piston route.

    If I was to put aftermarket pistons in any of my cars, the first place I would look is Mahle...specifically the 4032 pistons.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Two Rings Butler230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex1188 View Post
    Im pretty sure IE offers only 9.5-1 compression ratio while stock is 9.6-1
    You are correct, but I'm told this won't be an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by integroid View Post
    There are pros and cons to forged pistons. Just make sure you know what you are getting yourself into before going the aftermarket piston route.

    If I was to put aftermarket pistons in any of my cars, the first place I would look is Mahle...specifically the 4032 pistons.
    I know most of the pros, what are the cons?

    As of right now (subject to change since I'm still researching) is a set of Mahle pistons, IE connecting rods, Mahle rod bearings and new OEM main bearings.
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  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings b6Hate4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by integroid View Post
    There are pros and cons to forged pistons. Just make sure you know what you are getting yourself into before going the aftermarket piston route.

    If I was to put aftermarket pistons in any of my cars, the first place I would look is Mahle...specifically the 4032 pistons.
    What would a con be? Not being an ass but I've never heard of a single con of forged pistons. Enlighten me

    Other than different expansion rate and *possible* faster ring wear, I haven't heard any complaints.
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  19. #19
    Veteran Member Three Rings cybernet99's Avatar
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    I bit the bullet and ordered the full IE Sport Series short block, IE Sport Series head assembly and IE intake manifold ... Another couple weeks and it should be at my shop ready to drop in. :) Can't wait!!

    I'd say go with the IE setup!
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  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings Alex1188's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b6Hate4 View Post
    What would a con be? Not being an ass but I've never heard of a single con of forged pistons. Enlighten me

    Other than different expansion rate and *possible* faster ring wear, I haven't heard any complaints.
    Different alloys will have different knock characteristics, and also different weights which can also affect knock and wear on other parts of the rotating assembly, such as wrist pins and bearings. Hence why IE offers there pistons in 9.5-1 instead of 9.6-1 like factory. So IE pistons are actually less efficient than Stock pistons.

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    There's too many replies here to quote so I'll try and sum up areas that I wanted to share my personal opinion / experience on:

    First issue - why did you blow up a piston? That should be identified first. Was it a fueling issue (95/100 it usually is)?

    If you want to "build" a motor, go with forged internals.

    Draw back on forged internals is the added noise until they warm up and the expansion like someone said. You should not drive the car around until you've givin' the motor a chance to heat up. Now, what does that mean temp wise? It's really just a few minutes to allow the cylinder walls to warm up along with the pistons themselves and getting the coolant around the motor warm all together. If you turn the key and 'go', you'll be off slightly in tolerances between the piston's skirt and cylinder walls which can sometimes be faintly heard like chatter. This will mark the piston's skirts and walls slightly; overtime will create extra wear.

    Thermal coating on top of the pistons is amazing and helps fight pre-detonation big time. Labristic coatings on the piston's skirts help with not only lubrication but also fitment into the cylinder bores. All of which needs to be spec'd out as coatings add a few thousandths of an inch. With the proper piston ring selection, cut and material, you shouldn't have faster wear unless you're really pushing the motor's cylinder pressure (meaning, big a$$ turbo).

    Why drop in a junkyard motor when you'll prolly have to 'fix that one up'? Unless its a 2012+ where it has the newer timing tensioner and later generation OE pistons which don't have oil consumption issues. That means you'll be spending more money obtaining a newer year engine.

    What lettuce said in regards to the proper crown of the piston is critical; much so that the incorrect type will cause all sorts of combustion, fueling and pre-detonation issues you'll drive the car off a cliff.

    A 9.5:1 compression ratio is lower than stock which is 9.6:1. That means, naturally, you will lose some HP because of the less 'static' compression. This can be made up for by increasing the 'dynamic compression'; aka turn up the boost! I'm not sure how a stock K03 and stock or even some tunes will handle this gap (may not make up for it).

    Different type of pistons will have different thermal characteristics which can affect pre-detonation; however, a good forged piston, made by a reputable company won't have that issue. Furthermore, adding thermal coating to the crowns of the pistons helps combat against hot spots. The wording of 'different pistons have different knock characteristics' is incorrect context as 'knock' is technically past-tense

    I posting in a different thread where the OP stated he ordered an engine from IE. Me, personally, I've built many motors. Unless I 'know' the shop and the shop is also willing to provide the full spec sheet on said motor, I will not purchase a solution from them. You are literally buying blind. There are so many things that go into the build of an engine especially when you blueprint it. Deck height/correction, bore line, main journal specs, rod pin and journal specs, pistons, piston wrist pins, weight of all of what I said and more and let's throw in the harmonic balancer.

    I wish the best of luck to ya on your purchase and build. If it was me, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing it's not a complete end to end solution.
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  22. #22
    Senior Member Two Rings Butler230's Avatar
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    Thanks Allowencer - that is a lot of great information I did not know.

    We still have no idea why the piston blew. I'm not sure how we would determine that. I was just driving around town running errands. Fuel has always been 93 octane and from either Shell or Marathon stations.
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  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings integroid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler230 View Post
    You are correct, but I'm told this won't be an issue.



    I know most of the pros, what are the cons?

    As of right now (subject to change since I'm still researching) is a set of Mahle pistons, IE connecting rods, Mahle rod bearings and new OEM main bearings.
    Quote Originally Posted by b6Hate4 View Post
    What would a con be? Not being an ass but I've never heard of a single con of forged pistons. Enlighten me

    Other than different expansion rate and *possible* faster ring wear, I haven't heard any complaints.
    Here is a great article with pros/cons for forged and cast pistons. Like stated above, noise and shorter lifespan are the main cons.
    http://www.minimania.com/PISTONS___W...herefores_1206
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  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler230 View Post
    Thanks Allowencer - that is a lot of great information I did not know.

    We still have no idea why the piston blew. I'm not sure how we would determine that. I was just driving around town running errands. Fuel has always been 93 octane and from either Shell or Marathon stations.
    Got any pics? Good detailed ones? I could take a good guess based on combustion chamber, the side of the piston, the crown, details on the rings and what the cylinder wall looks like. It's kinda like CSI; figure out the murder lol
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  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Oh, and to add, stock [correct] piston diameter is 62.465 mm (meaning post stage 2 oil consumption fix). How do I know? First hand:

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  26. #26
    Senior Member Two Rings Butler230's Avatar
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    Thanks again Allowencer. I stopped by the shop today and we talked for quite a while about all of the different options. We are going to go ahead and get the parts ordered for the Mahle pistons and IE connecting rods. I have confirmed there is absolutely no damage at all to the cylinder walls thankfully.

    Here are a few pics of the damaged piston and the corresponding metal bits found mostly in the oil pump screen.









    And the carnage left behind
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  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Question #1: Did you have oil consumption stage 2 done on your car?
    Question #2: In the first 2 pics, you'll notice the right hand side of the piston, behind the skirt / next to the wrist pin, it's quite dark. Do the other 3 pistons share the same characteristics?
    Question #3: In the first pic, is that the top compression ring basically 'pressed' / flush with its own groove? Is it melted in there or can you move it / take it out? Prior to taking it out, can you take a pic or do you have a pic where the ring has its gap?

    If there is no visual evidence or even measured evidence on no damage on your cylinder walls, you're lucky! However, some of that luck has to do with the piston failing from under the crown which will allow the pieces to fall down and into the crankcase.

    From what I see here, either it's an oiling issue or something else; however, I'm almost positive the first compression ring failed and just over time the combustion and pressure within the cylinder killed the 2nd ring and the oil rings; along with taking carnage with it.
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  28. #28
    Senior Member Two Rings Butler230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allowencer View Post
    Question #1: Did you have oil consumption stage 2 done on your car?
    Question #2: In the first 2 pics, you'll notice the right hand side of the piston, behind the skirt / next to the wrist pin, it's quite dark. Do the other 3 pistons share the same characteristics?
    Question #3: In the first pic, is that the top compression ring basically 'pressed' / flush with its own groove? Is it melted in there or can you move it / take it out? Prior to taking it out, can you take a pic or do you have a pic where the ring has its gap?

    If there is no visual evidence or even measured evidence on no damage on your cylinder walls, you're lucky! However, some of that luck has to do with the piston failing from under the crown which will allow the pieces to fall down and into the crankcase.

    From what I see here, either it's an oiling issue or something else; however, I'm almost positive the first compression ring failed and just over time the combustion and pressure within the cylinder killed the 2nd ring and the oil rings; along with taking carnage with it.

    Question #1 - I have a 2012, so oil consumption doesn't apply to my year from what I understand. Additionally, I have not had any oil consumption issues.
    Question #2 - Yes, a little, but not to the extent of the broken piston.
    Question #3 - I'm honestly not sure. I didn't take the piston with me. I just stopped by the shop to take a look since he had everything out. I don't have any additional pics of the piston.

    He measured the cylinder and looked everything over and no damage was evidenced. Very lucky indeed. Most of the pieces found were in the screen for the oil pump. A few were found in various parts of the crankcase. Thank goodness for gravity! He is going to remove the crank and they will be cleaning and blowing out the entire block to make sure no pieces are still wedged in anywhere.

    I'm not sure on the oiling issue, but I'm pretty sure you are correct that the first ring failed and then eventually took the others with it.
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