Oil Catch Can - How necessary?

[pwdrskr]

With having a K04 I've been wondering about how necessary it is to have an oil catch can.

ECS has this one: https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-All_R...ons/ES2816990/ but it doesn't come with piping/lines. I asked ECS for help with selecting the lines and they were basically unhelpful. Any advice on what to get?

Thanks!

[jfo]

Unfortunately there is no clear evidence confirming the usefulness of a catch can on our cars. You will get opinions but no factual data. I installed the 034 system several years ago and have collected and discarded quite a bit of contaminated water, with a very small amount of oil each time. I bought it with the idea that it may help and can't hurt, since I was concerned about our carbon buildup issue and keep my cars for the long term. It's impossible to know how much of the collected material would actually end up as carbon deposits. You collect mostly water with contaminants, and I have no idea if those contaminants are hydrocarbons that might have been deposited or would just get burnt off. Also, the visible oil layer is very small, and again it's impossible to know how much would have been processed through the engine and how much would end up on the intake parts.
Then there's the question of whether those additional deposits really make any difference to performance, since most of the carbon deposits will happen anyway through normal blow-by.
Bottom line? It may help and can't hurt.

[pwdrskr]

Unfortunately there is no clear evidence confirming the usefulness of a catch can on our cars. You will get opinions but no factual data. I installed the 034 system several years ago and have collected and discarded quite a bit of contaminated water, with a very small amount of oil each time. I bought it with the idea that it may help and can't hurt, since I was concerned about our carbon buildup issue and keep my cars for the long term. It's impossible to know how much of the collected material would actually end up as carbon deposits. You collect mostly water with contaminants, and I have no idea if those contaminants are hydrocarbons that might have been deposited or would just get burnt off. Also, the visible oil layer is very small, and again it's impossible to know how much would have been processed through the engine and how much would end up on the intake parts.
Then there's the question of whether those additional deposits really make any difference to performance, since most of the carbon deposits will happen anyway through normal blow-by.
Bottom line? It may help and can't hurt.

Thanks for the response! I'll probably go ahead with installing one.

Did the 034 unit come with lines? I'm kind of annoyed how unhelpful ECS has been.

[zcspec]

Be cautious of the catch can you purchase. I know several which will fit the B8 chassis will also fit the B8.5. However, the blockoff plate/accompanying lines which some use will not fit underneath your engine cover. So unless you're OCD like me and like the look of the engine cover, make sure it fits underneath.

[jfo]

The 034 and CTS systems appear similar and come with all the pieces, including a replacement for the OEM PCV breather plate. Here's an old link to info on the 034.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ight=034+catch

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

We've never fitted our catch can in an allroad. We have a kit for the 2.0T B8 A4 but we've never fit it in an allroad. Could it fit perfectly? Possibly. But unless we test it our selves we will not be able to give a concrete answer.

So this is likely why Sales couldn't give you an answer on which hoses to use because they simply did not know.

Jason

[pwdrskr]

We've never fitted our catch can in an allroad. We have a kit for the 2.0T B8 A4 but we've never fit it in an allroad. Could it fit perfectly? Possibly. But unless we test it our selves we will not be able to give a concrete answer.

So this is likely why Sales couldn't give you an answer on which hoses to use because they simply did not know.

Jason

Understood. However that isn't what I was told when I asked for help. Basically the response was "go figure it out for yourself"

[b6Hate4]

I have a catch can for the purpose of not having that horrid pcv valve in my engine bay. The fact that it catches blow by is awesome, but having a billet aluminum vac and boost leak proof setup is hard to beat.

[b6Hate4]

I should actually correct myself and say I meant oil seperator instead of pcv valve, since that is techincally what it is.

[pwdrskr]

Appreciate all the responses. Still trying to figure out what kind of lines are needed and where to get them in order to install the ECS unit. Considering the allroad engine bay is basically identical to the A4s I would imagine the same materials would usable.

Seems as though the 034 catch can not only comes with the lines but also replaces the PCV unit...

[b6Hate4]

Appreciate all the responses. Still trying to figure out what kind of lines are needed and where to get them in order to install the ECS unit. Considering the allroad engine bay is basically identical to the A4s I would imagine the same materials would usable.

Seems as though the 034 catch can not only comes with the lines but also replaces the PCV unit...

This is why I chose 034.

[Party_Marty]

I do not have a K04, just running the latest K03 but I figured I'd share. I bought the ECS kit and I thought it was great (filling up the can every two weeks, I thought this was saving my butt) until I found it was capping the PCV system and pressurizing the crankcase, drawing oil directly into the can when the turbo is spooled. So, when I reinstalled the line from the PCV to the air manifold to utilize both systems I figured I could run like this and have all angles covered with zero issues. I checked the can 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 weeks in and not a single. drop. of oil. So, the can was really useless, if not harming my engine by pressurizing the crank-case (Some people developed leaking covers and such). The Unit itself is beautiful, its very well put together and looks fantastic in the engine bay, but I'm chasing the best performance for my engine and this was not helping, maybe even hurting. I give ECS some credit, but I think they have some stuff to figure out. These are all my observations, just trying to give some insight on your options. The 034 replaces the stock PCV system, that I don't much about...

[zcspec]

I do not have a K04, just running the latest K03 but I figured I'd share. I bought the ECS kit and I thought it was great (filling up the can every two weeks, I thought this was saving my butt) until I found it was capping the PCV system and pressurizing the crankcase, drawing oil directly into the can when the turbo is spooled. So, when I reinstalled the line from the PCV to the air manifold to utilize both systems I figured I could run like this and have all angles covered with zero issues. I checked the can 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 weeks in and not a single. drop. of oil. So, the can was really useless, if not harming my engine by pressurizing the crank-case (Some people developed leaking covers and such). The Unit itself is beautiful, its very well put together and looks fantastic in the engine bay, but I'm chasing the best performance for my engine and this was not helping, maybe even hurting. I give ECS some credit, but I think they have some stuff to figure out. These are all my observations, just trying to give some insight on your options. The 034 replaces the stock PCV system, that I don't much about...

I can't remember who it was, but another member here had the same issue as you and it was not good. I believe he needed up removing the whole setup in lieu of causing further damage.

[Party_Marty]

I can't remember who it was, but another member here had the same issue as you and it was not good. I believe he needed up removing the whole setup in lieu of causing further damage.

Yea I can't remember either but yea, that's not on the car anymore haha.

[adamazing]

It was Lettuce - but it was never definitively identified if that can was the problem because he already had a consumption/leaky piston-ring situation going on. I also erred on the side of caution by re-attaching my manifold port, and like above, it rendered the can useless.

ECS looked into it, had an engineer chime in, and found no issues. I'm still on the fence about hooking it back up. The amount of positive pressure coming out of the valve cover still has me reluctant.

[cybernet99]

It was Lettuce - but it was never definitively identified if that can was the problem because he already had a consumption/leaky piston-ring situation going on. I also erred on the side of caution by re-attaching my manifold port, and like above, it rendered the can useless.

ECS looked into it, had an engineer chime in, and found no issues. I'm still on the fence about hooking it back up. The amount of positive pressure coming out of the valve cover still has me reluctant.

I'm running it on my car right now, bypasses the same as @Party_Marty. Not a drop of oil. I've also got the bad oil consumption issue too. But ... I've got a new motor on order from IE, so will see what it is like with a fresh motor. I'll first check if it creates pressure when fully connected ... If it does, it's coming off immediately never to go back on. I don't want to introduce any problems with a nice fresh motor.

[Allowencer]

I'm running it on my car right now, bypasses the same as @Party_Marty. Not a drop of oil. I've also got the bad oil consumption issue too. But ... I've got a new motor on order from IE, so will see what it is like with a fresh motor. I'll first check if it creates pressure when fully connected ... If it does, it's coming off immediately never to go back on. I don't want to introduce any problems with a nice fresh motor.

Wow, Mr. Money Bags here LOL. As an engine builder, I want to KNOW how my engine was assembled, put together and have a spec sheet of what I said. IE does not offer any of that information; you're basically buying something blind. Don't get me wrong, IE has great products, I just wouldn't buy a 'solution' from a company, especially it being over priced like many 3 letter'd products by a certain company.

[jfo]

It was Lettuce - but it was never definitively identified if that can was the problem because he already had a consumption/leaky piston-ring situation going on. I also erred on the side of caution by re-attaching my manifold port, and like above, it rendered the can useless.

ECS looked into it, had an engineer chime in, and found no issues. I'm still on the fence about hooking it back up. The amount of positive pressure coming out of the valve cover still has me reluctant.

I have the 034 system, which replaces the OEM breather plate. At idle, there is also positive pressure at the oil filler. I believe this is to be expected, since the turbo is not pulling through the catch can at idle and the point of least resistance is the oil filler opening. When the cap is replaced, the next exit point will be through the breather plate, catch can, and on to the turbo. Evan though the turbo is not under boost at idle, I assume the crankcase can still vent by this route and not put undue pressure on engine seals. After several years of use, I have no issues and I have not heard of others with seal problems. The ECS system uses the OEM PCV plate/ diaphragm but with the intake no longer in the path I believe. I don't know if it will allow crankcase pressure to vent through the turbo at idle. As far as I can tell, it has no other place to go, so I would assume the ECS developers have addressed this?
In older vehicles, positive pressure at the filler or dipstick was a sign that the PCV system was plugged or broken, and would usually result in a blown seal. Our engine is somewhat different though and I don't fully understand the pathway for crankcase gases with the OEM PCV in place.

[Party_Marty]

I'm running it on my car right now, bypasses the same as @Party_Marty. Not a drop of oil. I've also got the bad oil consumption issue too. But ... I've got a new motor on order from IE, so will see what it is like with a fresh motor. I'll first check if it creates pressure when fully connected ... If it does, it's coming off immediately never to go back on. I don't want to introduce any problems with a nice fresh motor.

If it was me, I would not bother putting it on at all. I put mine on my car with 28k-ish miles (fairly new if you ask me) and then those things happened...Why risk it. If you consume a lot of oil with no system then I would consider something, but I would start with nothing on IMO. Good luck with the new engine tho!!

[pwdrskr]

Thanks again for all the responses! I think I'm going to hold off at this point.

completely unrelated, I did pull the trigger on this: http://europrice.us/turn-signal-modu...mi-dynamic-837

On a side note, I continue to be thankful and impressed with this community and how helpful it can be. Building my allroad has been a pleasure and the forums have been a fantastic resource.

[o1turbo30v]

You made the right choice, catch cans are a waste of money for these cars.

[ccoaston]

waste

[cybernet99]

Wow, Mr. Money Bags here LOL. As an engine builder, I want to KNOW how my engine was assembled, put together and have a spec sheet of what I said. IE does not offer any of that information; you're basically buying something blind. Don't get me wrong, IE has great products, I just wouldn't buy a 'solution' from a company, especially it being over priced like many 3 letter'd products by a certain company.

Damn, had no idea an Audi engine builder in Ontario was in the midst ... I am definitely not moneybags! LOL, but want something that will last many years after such an investment. When I lived in Vancouver, I had high HP small bock Chevy motors built. The usual blueprinting, balancing, trusted combinations to build a solid motor. I checked with my local reputable Audi shop and they priced out a comparable build and in the end recommended as well to go with the built motor as their contacts didn't have any long term experience in building the Audi 2.0T motor. The price difference was only 1K CDN ... So, I felt more comfortable in going with the Integrated Engineering build.

Yes, I'm going in blind, but have yet to find a bad review of their engine builds. So ... yes somewhat of a fingers crossed situation.

[Allowencer]

Might be because there aren't many IE 'built' engines out there.

Bottom line, a motor is a motor; just about all the same principles apply. The key though is this motor hasn't been around long enough to 'fully' blueprint yet.

[AutoRacer100]

Hi guys,

I just watched a YouTube video on DI, PI (port injection) and preventive measure of carbon buildup in a DI car. The guy in the video mentioned about using a good oil catch can to catch 95% of oil vapor and blow by. Is there an oil catch can that really works on our car? Or is it still the same verdict that oil catch can is waste of money? Also does anyone use injector cleaner with a good result?

[choisteven]

Hi guys,

I just watched a YouTube video on DI, PI (port injection) and preventive measure of carbon buildup in a DI car. The guy in the video mentioned about using a good oil catch can to catch 95% of oil vapor and blow by. Is there an oil catch can that really works on our car? Or is it still the same verdict that oil catch can is waste of money? Also does anyone use injector cleaner with a good result?

You watched savagegeese's video? I'm curious for our cars too. From this thread, it seems as if not very useful for our cars. I have about 130k kms on mostly highway driving and I do plan on keeping my car long term as a daily.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Audizine mobile app

[AutoRacer100]

You watched savagegeese's video? I'm curious for our cars too. From this thread, it seems as if not very useful for our cars. I have about 130k kms on mostly highway driving and I do plan on keeping my car long term as a daily.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Audizine mobile app

Yes Savagegeese! I love his review on cars! He seems very technical and knows a lot about cars. Anyway none of oil catch can is able to pull some nasty liquid out of our engine based on this thread. Savagegeese stated that a carbon clean is needed for every 30k miles. That would be a ridiculous high maintenance on our cars if that's the case. My car is 8 years old and has only 36k miles mostly local traffic driving. I wonder how dirty the intake valves on my car. It's frustrating to see a such high maintenance cost while I want to keep the car for a long term. But then most newer cars have DI. So not many options for me to chose from if I want high performance cars.

[flowhigh]

To solve an oil loss issue - absolutely worthless.

[AutoRacer100]

To solve an oil loss issue - absolutely worthless.

Use a good oil catch can to slow down the carbon build up.

[jfo]

Use a good oil catch can to slow down the carbon build up.

This is one of those where you will not find any data or a factual answer...only opinions. I've used one for six years and can confirm that the amount of oil captured is very small. Perhaps 2% of the total amount of fluid is oil that floats to the top of a jar over time. The rest is water with various combustion contaminants. Only vapour captured when there is no boost goes to the intake. The remainder is directed to the turbo.
Given that most of the carbon buildup by far, results from blowby in the cylinder, it's very difficult to guestimate how much impact the catch can has. Perhaps some of the other non-oil stuff in there might contain hydrocarbons that could deposit on the valves...don't know.
To me it's in the category of "can't hurt but might help". I have one so I continue to use it.

[Audi 4 Life]

The main benfitit if the catch can in my opiniom is the upgrade pcv system the stock design is poor plastic pos the 034 kit is nice i run it but have the drain plug kit as well so i have never seen how.much oil is in there.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[AutoRacer100]

Do all cars get some product from blow by of the engine? If so, I don't get why you guys did not get a drop of liquid/water in your catch can? The liquid/oil/fuel residues from the engine goes directly into the PCV and oil catch can connects to the PCV lines catches all those nasty stuff before the PCV. That makes sense to me that a catch can should catch all that and nothing should go into PCV.

[jfo]

Do all cars get some product from blow by of the engine? If so, I don't get why you guys did not get a drop of liquid/water in your catch can? The liquid/oil/fuel residues from the engine goes directly into the PCV and oil catch can connects to the PCV lines catches all those nasty stuff before the PCV. That makes sense to me that a catch can should catch all that and nothing should go into PCV.

I'm not sure I understand your comment, but to clarify....all cars will experience some blow by with combustion gases reaching the valves and depositing carbon over time. The catch can(some versions) replaces the PCV and directs crankcase vapour to the catch first before being pulled through to the turbo. The line that directed vapour to the intake and valves is removed, so the small amount of oil that may have deposited on the intake valves is eliminated. The majority of liquid found in the can is indeed condensed water vapour. For example,after about 2500km's in the winter, I will remove about 500ml from the can. It's all contaminated water with a small amount of oil. If I leave it sit in a jar for a few days I will have perhaps 1/16" of oil film on top of 4" of water with other combustion by products. As i mentioned above, I don't know if those contaminants in the water would contribute to carbon buildup.

[Lambda13]

I have the CTS catch can and it gets filled with water/vapor almost every other week. I've been dumping the can every other week, and more often when its cold out and the amount of water/milky crap I pour out is more than enough justification for me to keep running it. I'll video next time I dump it if you're curious to see what it looks like.

[earhythmic]

I have a CTS catch can on my Allroad. Under the engine bay is identical to a B8.5, meaning the PCV piping is a little different than a B8 so you have to get a can that’s meant for a B8.5. As far as I can tell only CTS has one, albeit I haven’t checked out the ECS one for a while.

[Jezza]

I'd be very wary of using a block-off plate. The oem pcv assembly can pull vacuum from either the turbo or intake manifold allowing it to provide a constant source of vacuum for the crankcase. In B8 motors, this is crucial for the low-tension piston rings to seal reliably. Further, these engines have a primary air/oil separator buried further down in the block. What sits on top is a combination of a secondary air/oil separator and series of valves controlling which pathways open when to maintain continuous vacuum to the crankcase. You're best bet, is a catch can setup that work in conjunction with the factory pcv assembly.

[AutoRacer100]

What is the symptoms of dirty intake valve (nasty carbon buildup)? Poor gas mileage, lack of power and rough idle?

My car is over 8 years old and I wouldn't expect it runs like a brand new car. But I do noticed tiny vibration at idle and lack of power for sure. 2010 A4 with 37k miles (80% local street driving, stop and go). I can only get 17.5 MPG (80% local, 20% highway) now. Can I get 21 MPG local driving and get all the lost power back with a intake carbon cleaning?

[Slim0531]

What is the symptoms of dirty intake valve (nasty carbon buildup)? Poor gas mileage, lack of power and rough idle?

My car is over 8 years old and I wouldn't expect it runs like a brand new car. But I do noticed tiny vibration at idle and lack of power for sure. 2010 A4 with 37k miles (80% local street driving, stop and go). I can only get 17.5 MPG (80% local, 20% highway) now. Can I get 21 MPG local driving and get all the lost power back with a intake carbon cleaning?

Winter blend usually brings down MPG. I have a 2014 A4 and I get about 18mpg driving to work for 6 miles 50% highway using 93 octane shell in dynamic mode. In summer time, I get to around 24-28 driving on freeway.


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[AutoRacer100]

Winter blend usually brings down MPG. I have a 2014 A4 and I get about 18mpg driving to work for 6 miles 50% highway using 93 octane shell in dynamic mode. In summer time, I get to around 24-28 driving on freeway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really? Let me monitor mine in the upcoming summer season.

[mtroxel]

Winter blend usually brings down MPG.

No question. I get my best mileage right now. They've stopped putting anti freeze in the gas, and I'm not running the air. I get at least 1 mpg better in the early spring and late fall.