Mr Flathmann,
I am going to respond once to this post. Nothing in this post is going to be anything different from the information that I have provided you in the last few emails. I hope that anyone that is reading takes the time to completely read and comprehend the situation and the way it unfolded.
Mr. Flathmann contacted me via phone to change a valley pan gasket on his 2004 Audi s4 4.2 V8. We declined to do the job. We are not a regular service facility, and we have little to no interest in working on a car with 120+k miles. Especially for first time customers and ones where clients are insisting what is wrong with the vehicle and providing their own parts. Typically these tend to end up as incorrectly diagnosed or Chinese poor fitting items that leak, or don’t fit.
With that said do not mistake our disinterest in doing the job for incapability. We build drag cars, off road use. Chassis work, wire harnesses, turbo kits, built engine, custom fabrication, race transmissions, dog boxes, etc. I have jobs that are ranging from weeks to months in duration.
After high recommendation from a client and insurance adjuster dealing with Mr. Flathmann with one of his other vehicle and a second call for request of services I decided to take on the job as it was a recommended job.
I was told the following. The vehicle has had a leak for a short while and that he was told by the previous repair facility it needed a valley pan gasket and that he did not wish to go back to the previous shop to have the work done.
The vehicle was dropped off to my shop outside of my business hours. There was a 3’ puddle of oil underneath the vehicle and there was no oil on the dipstick tube. We were instructed to change the valley pan gasket, and any associated items that would require the intake manifold to be off to access. Due to there being no oil on the dipstick, a huge puddle underneath and a request for LOF change I pushed the car inside rather than waste more than a few quarts of oil to drive it 20 feet into the facility just to be drained again.
We removed the intake manifold taking notes of everything along the way that we saw. Several injector connectors were broken, there were broken vacuum hoses in the secondary air system, connectors on the front of the intake manifold were broken. We ordered the additional items that Mr. Flathmann did not supply which come standard with a “valley pan gasket kit”.
The entire engine bay was covered in oil, from top to bottom. Puddled in numerous spots. In front, back, sides of intake manifold, front and rear of motor all the way down to the oil pan and under it. The oil pan gasket was also covered in silicone as it had been replaced previously.
Once the parts arrived from Audi we completed the top end valley pan gasket seal that Mr. Flathmann requested. All the while we had both called and written emails outlining the job, items missing, items we saw in question and what the items we were ordering consisted of, where we were getting them, how much they would cost and the time table for receiving them.
At this point we changed the oil, and the filter placing the old filter in the new filters box and setting it aside for later disposal. This is a standard practice to me just to keep parts from one thing organized together if a client wants old parts. We have had many customers over the years wish to send oil samples out to be analyzed. We will come back to this.
Upon first start up of the vehicle, after cleaning the entire engine bay down with assorted cleaners and rougly 1 full case of brake parts cleaner, we started the engine for the FIRST TIME.
There was a substantial flow of oil coming from the bottom passenger side of the engine, we immediately turned the engine off. There was no change on the dipstick it ran for under 15 seconds.
We called Mr. Flathmann and he was immediately screaming on the phone and we asked him to come down to take a look with us. In the last 10 years I have never been screamed at by a customer, especially after letting him know that there was an additional oil leak that we were not told of. Just a notification, nothing more.
Upon arrival of Mr. Flathmann we showed him the old parts, we showed him the source of the additional (not new by any stretch of the imagination) leak and asked him how he wished to proceed.
Since the beginning of dealing with Mr. Flathmann he told me several times he had already wasted a ton of money on this car and that he did not want to spend a lot to fix it. He was angry that the valley pan gasket repair only stopped the leak at the valley pan gasket, and didn’t fix the entire car. All the broken connectors, all 8 broken coil pack connectors (just during the job looking around noticing) amongst other typical 12-13 year old vw/audi problems.
We then started the car for Mr. Flathmann and showed him what we believed to be an oil cooler related leak. The engine had a faint tick that came and went. Mr. flathmann again screaming and cursing saying that it never made that f’ing noise before. I calmly explained the vehicle was multiple quarts low on oil and due to the puddle, I decided not to start the car until I could confirm oil level upon oil change service. We told him the necessary steps to access, diagnose and replace the items in question and gave him a rough quotation verbally depending on if it was just a seal or in need of a cooler. Before leaving he agreed to have us remove the front end of the vehicle to further diagnose. He made sure to tell me that time was a big thing for him (being this was already after hours) I stayed until 1230 am to remove the necessary parts to gain access, pull part numbers (with vin split) off of films and online parts catalogs and email Mr. Flathmann before morning as to the status of the repair. Waiting his response on how to proceed. That was Friday night, email was sent in the early morning hours of Saturday.
I received no response to that email even though he claims he emailed us back. I emailed him again Monday for an update and he told us that he already said to do it. Moot point, we continued.
The next business day I received the new orings that were to replace the ones that were dry rotted and falling apart, changed them, assembled the accessories required to remove to gain access to the cooler and again changed the full volume of oil in the vehicle (retained the same “new” 30 second run time filter from the previous days)
There was no leak pouring out at the oil cooler, valley pan was completely dry and the engine was 100% full of oil. There was still a faint tick. Obviously the car is not new. The pan had sealant all over it, we never touched it, the one valve cover gasket was seeping, we didn't touch that either. I never saw the car or dealt with this client prior to this experience. With the hood shut and the front end installed it was inaudible. We adjusted the headlights as per his request to the maximum they would adjust so they didn’t point at the floor. No charge of course. I drove the car around the block. The vehicle came in to me with 137,029 and left with 137,030 miles. Everything seemed fine.
We contacted Mr. Flathmann that the repair was complete, there were no more major leaks, everything addressed was dry and it was available for pickup. We did everything we were authorized to do.
He came in the evening to pick up the vehicle and as he went to pull the vehicle out of the parking lot there was an engine noise, he continued to rev the engine up and start it every few minutes despite the noise. He was again screaming and carrying on that the engine didn’t make noise before. After roughly an hour of him carrying on and speaking to his wife with him in the background we decided to leave the car to determine the potential damage and what was necessary to proceed.
At this point I contacted Elite to obtain any information and was forwarded the service records. Not 2,3,4,6 months ago was the car looked at. 15+ months, feb 2015 and 6000+ miles ago the vehicle was at Elite and the customer declined to have the items changed that were still leaking until they were just repaired.
Through all the emails there after with Mr. Flathmann he tried to rationalize to me that the engine ONLY leaked when it was running. Anyone who understands the mechanicals of an engine should realize that this is FAR WORSE than a static leak, broken or cracked oil pan, improperly sealed lower engine oil pan etc.
If the engine is producing ~30psi at idle and 60+ at higher engine speeds, but you are leaking out ˝ or more quart of oil “on a weekend drive” that Mr. Flahtmann stated the vehicles only use was, that is ˝ quart per say, 25 miles is .02 quarts of oil PER MILE. The standard which I think everyone will agree, even if you don’t the variable in decimal denomination is comical at best, .0002 quarts per mile based on 1 quart consumption (not pouring pressured leak) per 5000 miles, measured in standard oil change interval.
In short Mr. Flathmann leaking his measly ˝ quart per weekend drive was 100 TIMES more consumption, or pressurized leak starving his engine for oil over the last 15 MONTHS. That is also the time and date documented by elite. No one brings their car for a leak it doesn’t have, so it is a mystery as to how long the vehicle has actually been leaking.
Mr. Flathmann and his wife threatened to take me to small claims court, slandered me in front of people in the parking lot, yelled and screamed at me on the phone more than once, slandered me to the tow truck driver, who asked me upon arrival if he should decline towing the vehicle as the customer was screaming and carrying on at him on the phone (he did nothing “wrong”)
I felt the need to explain all of this and will not bicker back and forth, but I will post up the email correspondences to prove the level of competence and thorough explanation exhibited with Mr. Flathmann in private to attempt to resolve anything needing clarification.
On top of this, after they left the vehicle with me I again pushed the car inside and began to remove necessary items to diagnose and test oil pressure. I figured it wouldn’t be a bad idea to inspect the oil filter. The filter had metal shaving in it.
I went back to the original filter, for all of you still reading, you will recall I NEVER started the engine on this filter because of the 3’ puddle under the car. It too has metal shavings in it.
Mr. Flathmann also explained that the engine had started leaking MUCH more in the last few days, with the timeline difference between a few months and 15 from when it was at elite I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say its been pouring oil (as out lined from elites paper work 15 months ago) for at least 2 months.
No one forced Mr. Flathmann to drive the vehicle to me, he didn’t drive it out, he called a tow truck. Possibly if he would have done this on his drop off to me the vehicle would still be running today without noise, but with no guarantee for how long now knowing the events and timeline with elites paper trail leading me to the long winded explanation of this situation.
I do empathize with Mr. Flathmann but find it highly improbable that anyone with any sense or competence would blame me running a car for a few seconds with some leaks repaired and a full volume of oil for the failure of Mr. Flathmann engine over his 15 months 6000+ mile
weekend drives (you typically don’t drive that much in 15 months on joy rides only) with him adding oil as needed. AGAIN pressure based leak, not static leak, he starved the engine of oil pressure for 6000+ miles and it was his decision based on elites documentation.
Again sorry anyone who had to read this, I hope this clarifys the events leading to another outlandish attempt to slander both myself and elite. I commend elite on their stellar repair order documentation and appreciate kai’s willingness to provide me with that documentation.
Lastly just to add on, I couldn’t post right away waiting for webmaster approval to post. A few things, Mr Flathmann was not billed for a DI carbon cleaning, this car is not DI, it is port injection. BUT this car was covered with oil, engine bay, under carriage, radiator support, frame rails, transmission, the intake manifold inside was caked with oil, the intake ports were caked with oil, we originally charged him 1 hour labor ($100) to clean his intake manifold out and go through all 8 intake ports of his head and clean the filthy oil build up. As we were in there and he specifically said to do whatever needed to be done with the intake manifold off. He told me he didn't tell me to do that, so I removed it off the invoice, no questions asked. I just spoke to the towing company and there was no damage to the vehicle, and that he would be glad to come on and post about the situation at hand. That the owner showed up when the car was being loaded (after it took me roughly 10 minutes to move cars around the vehicle to easily load the car onto the flatbed.) That he gave me the clients name and that he was here to pick a 2004 audi s4. Of course i knew it was for Mr. Flathmann from his knowledge of the situation. We did not remove the engine, we did not reseal the oil pan. We did not sell him the car, did not provide him with a warranty for this car we didnt sell to him. He bought a car, drove it, had more than 3 different people work on it, it has problems that were not addressed and is far from new. It has 137,030+ miles on it and by no means did we say we fixed the whole car. Drivers side valve cover gasket is still leaking, all coil and many inj plugs are broken, many other electrical plugs are broken and the oil pan was covered with silicone. He also said Mr. Flathmann stiffed him for $10, got the car off the flatbed started it cold and was immediately revving it up and down. I have nothing futher to comment, I will post screen shots of emails and pictures of oil, filters, housing and anything else, I took pictures of the car before it left onto the tow truck just to be safe because I knew there would be bogus allegations….
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Originally Posted by FastEddie
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