Where is my oil going???

[mosnet99]

So the other day on my b6 1.8t the low oil pressure light came on on the freeway so I got off and got some more T6 Rotella 5W-40 since I found my oil to be low. It went off and maybe 1500miles later I had to add a bit more. Immediately I'm thinking the worse case (piston rings) but the thing is performance is great and there is not even a small sign of burnt oil out of the tailpipe, also not a drop of oil in my driveway. I heard it could be a turbo seal, but I thought I'd be still burning oil for it to be that as well. Can anyone give any suggestions? I'll probably do a compression test this weekend.

[old guy]

Low oil pressure (RED) or low oil level (YELLOW) warning light?

[mosnet99]

Low oil pressure (RED) or low oil level (YELLOW) warning light?

It was RED, but the level was very low and I'm sure the proper amount was put in with my last oil change.

[Furly]

How's your PCV and valve cover gasket look? Oil can be leaking and burning off before it hits the ground on things like the exhaust and hot parts etc..

Our B8 burns oil like crazy and audi refuses to cover it on the class action settlement warranty even though it qualifies.

My old 2.8 B5 burned a ton of oil and didn't leak anywhere. Had to add a quart every 900 or so miles. It's all internal.

[mosnet99]

How's your PCV and valve cover gasket look? Oil can be leaking and burning off before it hits the ground on things like the exhaust and hot parts etc..

It's all internal.

The PCV is for burning excess blowby gases, how'd that be "internal"? Why was the 2.8 always burning oil?

[Furly]

The PCV is for burning excess blowby gases, how'd that be "internal"? Why was the 2.8 always burning oil?

It's gets clogged, causes the valve cover gasket to leak.

We never figured it out we just kept topping it off and its still running great 100k miles later. Most B5 V6 motors burned oil. I'd read about it all the time. The B8 is due to manufacturing error. Out of tolerance pistons and or rings. If it ain't external it's internal. More than likely piston rings.

The performance won't be effected to the point you notice it. The B8 still drives great but it burns a quart every 1000 miles and it's barely at 70k miles on the odo.

[mosnet99]

That's crazy. I couldn't deal with that.

[old guy]

It was RED, but the level was very low and I'm sure the proper amount was put in with my last oil change.

Low oil level shouldn’t cause low oil pressure unless it was low enough that it was below the oil pick up tube. If it was still registering on the stick it should have been enough for pick up. If the light came on again after adding oil you need to stop driving your car and determine the reason for the low oil pressure. Sludge is always a good possibility.

[mosnet99]

It's gets clogged, causes the valve cover gasket to leak.

Thing is the valve covers were done shortly before I bought it, I guess its possible they could've not replaced the PCV valve & hoses. But I see no signs of the valve covers leaking.

[Furly]

Thing is the valve covers were done shortly before I bought it, I guess its possible they could've not replaced the PCV valve & hoses. But I see no signs of the valve covers leaking.

If they aren't leaking at all (check the back too) you should be ok. Lot of times people just replace the gasket and not the clogged plumbing and it just blows out again eventually.

[Furly]

Low oil level shouldn’t cause low oil pressure unless it was low enough that it was below the oil pick up tube. If it was still registering on the stick it should have been enough for pick up. If the light came on again after adding oil you need to stop driving your car and determine the reason for the low oil pressure. Sludge is always a good possibility.

This.

Both can be inspected fairly easily

[mosnet99]

Low oil level shouldn’t cause low oil pressure unless it was low enough that it was below the oil pick up tube. If it was still registering on the stick it should have been enough for pick up. If the light came on again after adding oil you need to stop driving your car and determine the reason for the low oil pressure. Sludge is always a good possibility.

Yeah it definitely was still registering on the pick up but after adding oil I haven't seen the light since. Could you see the sludge by peeking into the valvetrain from the oil cap hole? Looks pretty clean to me. IIRC low oil level does affect pressure, actually from the B6 tech write you directed someone to in another oil pressure related thread it.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

[old guy]

You might want to review this article again. Unless the oil level is below the pick up tube you should not get a RED low oil pressure warning. Especially if you are steady state driving above 1500 rpm. Clicky click®

There are specific conditions such as a really low viscosity oil or a messed up block breather system pulling excessive vacuum on the block that can cause an occasional low pressure warning but for the most part if you ignore the RED warning you will pay the price down the road.

[b6_joe]

Those turbos in these cars are famous for burning through lots of oil


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine mobile app

[Furly]

Those turbos in these cars are famous for burning through lots of oil


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine mobile app

My big turbo on the 1.8T didn't burn any oil and my buddy's with k03s don't consume any either.

[daught]

I had to put a quart every 2000 miles with T6. Less with motul. Since I went to GC I do 5000 miles wit about a quart.

[Furly]

What is GC?
I use liquimoly on the B6 and we switch between oils on the B8 to see if any of them burn less.

[hightime80]

I had to put a quart every 2000 miles with T6. Less with motul. Since I went to GC I do 5000 miles wit about a quart.

Yeah my almost bone stock 1.8t doesnt burn squat, maybe 1/2 qt between oil changes. Rotella t6 walmart style👍

[old guy]

What is GC?

German Castrol.

[mosnet99]

You might want to review this article again. Unless the oil level is below the pick up tube you should not get a RED low oil pressure warning. Especially if you are steady state driving above 1500 rpm. Clicky click®

There are specific conditions such as a really low viscosity oil or a messed up block breather system pulling excessive vacuum on the block that can cause an occasional low pressure warning but for the most part if you ignore the RED warning you will pay the price down the road.

Have some more info and a few more questions. So replacing my SAI pump today I saw this...


Looks like a turbo seal is leaking? I was told by the previous owner a new turbo was installed probably 50k ago (at 150k now). Not sure if its residue from previous or its actually leaking. It did look wet though. As far as the pressure issue, I also noticed the oil change place I went to did not use the correct filter so I'll be changing it soon. After I added the oil though I have not had the oil pressure light come back on but I'm thinking I should do an oil pressure test just to be sure my bearings are ok.

My question is how can you rule out oil sludge? Can you just peek in the filler hole or would it be noticeable on the stick? Also is it worth replacing piping & pcv valve to just rule it out?


Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

[old guy]

That amount of oil around the turbo isn't particularly alarming. Your main focus right now would be to check the oil pressure to make sure it is OK. You can remove the valve cover and look for signs of sludge build up. Checking for a partially clogged screen on the oil pick up tube requires removing the oil pan. Low oil pressure isn't always caused by sludge. Here's an example of a screen clogged by various chunks of deteriorated plastic components, carbon chunks stc.

[mosnet99]

That amount of oil around the turbo isn't particularly alarming. Your main focus right now would be to check the oil pressure to make sure it is OK. You can remove the valve cover and look for signs of sludge build up. Checking for a partially clogged screen on the oil pick up tube requires removing the oil pan. Low oil pressure isn't always caused by sludge. Here's an example of a screen clogged by various chunks of deteriorated plastic components, carbon chunks stc.

I'll check the pressure but dropping the subframe to drop the oil pan is out of my league. What do you think about the small oil filter theory?

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

[old guy]

All of the 1.8T engines used the small filter until late '03. That is when the larger filter was introduced to increase the capacity because of the sludge problem. The smaller filter by itself should not cause an oil pressure issue

[mosnet99]

All of the 1.8T engines used the small filter until late '03. That is when the larger filter was introduced to increase the capacity because of the sludge problem. The smaller filter by itself should not cause an oil pressure issue

Ok thanx mine is 04 though. Peeking into the valvetrain it looks very clean & lobes look great. Much better than my 2.8 I had. Starting to think the PCV may be robbing my engine of pressure. Still going to check pressure tomorrow.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

[diagnosticator]

Those turbos in these cars are famous for burning through lots of oil


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine mobile app

Really?

[diagnosticator]

So the other day on my b6 1.8t the low oil pressure light came on on the freeway so I got off and got some more T6 Rotella 5W-40 since I found my oil to be low. It went off and maybe 1500miles later I had to add a bit more. Immediately I'm thinking the worse case (piston rings) but the thing is performance is great and there is not even a small sign of burnt oil out of the tailpipe, also not a drop of oil in my driveway. I heard it could be a turbo seal, but I thought I'd be still burning oil for it to be that as well. Can anyone give any suggestions? I'll probably do a compression test this weekend.

1 liter per 1000 miles is within the normal oil consumption range. One main source of oil burning in a higher mileage engine is through the valve stem seals. The seals get hard and don't seal the valve stems properly, and lube oil gets sucked into the intake seals and out the exhaust guide seals. Replacing the valve guide seals will stop most of the high oil consumption. Leaking valve guide seals cannot be detected with a compression test.

[mosnet99]

Is this evidence of a clogged PVC?

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

[old guy]

That more likely just a slight boost leak either from the hose connection or the nipple connection to the intake manifold.

[mosnet99]

Again with this. Yeah 1 quart every 800 to 1000 miles. If I get under the car and my dv os covered in oil again I'm replacing the turbo seal.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

[diagnosticator]

The seals for the turbo shaft are labyrinth type piston ring seals. They don't run with contact to the shaft. Also, there is no liquid oil up against the seals. However, if the seals are in fact leaking, oil can escape into the compressor and/or exhaust turbine housing. There would be a lot of exhaust smoke in either case.

It is more likely that the valve guide seals are leaking.

[mosnet99]

The seals for the turbo shaft are labyrinth type piston ring seals. They don't run with contact to the shaft. Also, there is no liquid oil up against the seals. However, if the seals are in fact leaking, oil can escape into the compressor and/or exhaust turbine housing. There would be a lot of exhaust smoke in either case.

It is more likely that the valve guide seals are leaking.

Right before I purchased it I took it to Autohaus in Michigan & their synopsis was the valve guide seals were recently done. Not only that I've been under the car several times & there'snno leaks. It is normal to take off your oil cap and see steam or burning oil vapors or whatever after you've been driving? I think I'm going to switch to Amsoil

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

[diagnosticator]

Right before I purchased it I took it to Autohaus in Michigan & their synopsis was the valve guide seals were recently done. Not only that I've been under the car several times & there'snno leaks. It is normal to take off your oil cap and see steam or burning oil vapors or whatever after you've been driving? I think I'm going to switch to Amsoil

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

I'm skeptical how the shop was able to say the valve guide seals where replaced recently. What was the reason to focus on the valve guide seals during pre purchase inspection?
That would be very unusual

If the crankcase ventilation system (PCV, crankcase pressure regulator valve,) is working properly, with the engine idling, there should not be any smoke or vapor coming out of the oil fill cap.

Worn out or broken piston rings can provoke excessive oil consumption. Has a compression test been done?

[mosnet99]

I'm skeptical how the shop was able to say the valve guide seals where replaced recently. What was the reason to focus on the valve guide seals during pre purchase inspection?
That would be very unusual

If the crankcase ventilation system (PCV, crankcase pressure regulator valve,) is working properly, with the engine idling, there should not be any smoke or vapor coming out of the oil fill cap.

Worn out or broken piston rings can provoke excessive oil consumption. Has a compression test been done?

I'm sorry I honestly wasn't paying attention when i was typing that last message (or tired). I saw valve & tranlated that to valve cover gaskets for whatever reason lol. Now about the seals..bad ones would allow oil into combustion chambers, right? The oil evidence I have of burning oil out the tail pipe are a bit of soot rings around the opening of the tips. I figured that was normal for 150k. I'm gonna try to do a compression& oil pressure test on it this weekend. My PCV system is suspect too. Replacing that with 034

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

[diagnosticator]

I'm sorry I honestly wasn't paying attention when i was typing that last message (or tired). I saw valve & tranlated that to valve cover gaskets for whatever reason lol. Now about the seals..bad ones would allow oil into combustion chambers, right? The oil evidence I have of burning oil out the tail pipe are a bit of soot rings around the opening of the tips. I figured that was normal for 150k. I'm gonna try to do a compression& oil pressure test on it this weekend. My PCV system is suspect too. Replacing that with 034

Yeah, valve guide seals get hard and wear over time from heat and aging. Old guide seals will allow lube oil to get sucked into the intake from the intake valve guide seals, and leaking exhaust guide seals will allow some oil to leak into the exhaust ports, however not as much as will leak into the intake ports. Leaky exhaust guide seals with allow exhaust to leak into the engine interiour provoking excess blow-by gasses to overload the crankcase ventilation system, causing high crankcase pressure that increases lube oil leakage through the intake guide seals. Valve guide seals can be replaced without removing the head, but the head can most likely benefit from a valve seat refresh anyway, so the head should be removed and reconditioned. Especially if a compression test reveals some of the valve seats are leaking compression pressure due to seat wear.

To help restore proper crankcase ventilation, besides a new PCV, the crankcase pressure regulation valve, (pancake valve,) should be replaced. The CPRV gets clogged with deposits, and the diaphragm inside gets stiff from heat and aging resulting in defective crankcase pressure regulation function.

Exhaust manifold pressure is typically about twice boost pressure, BTW.

A compression test requires the throttle valve to be open fully while cranking the starter with a warm engine, and the fuel injector wiring harness connectors disconnected. After obtaining a "dry" compression test result, If any cylinders compression is low, add about a tablespoon of engine oil into the cylinder and repeat the compression test. If the compression increases, the piston rings are leaking, if not, then the valve seats are leaking compression pressure. You can also apply 2 to 5 psig regulated air pressure to the cylinder, with both valves closed and the engine prevented from rotating, then listen at the throttle body and exhaust pipe tips for the sound of leaking air. If air leakage is heard at either or both points, then that confirms the valve seats are leaking compression.

[diagnosticator]

That's crazy. I couldn't deal with that.

Why not? What is so difficult about adding a liter of engine oil every third fuel fill up, or ~1/3 liter every fuel fill up?

How long have you owned your A4?

Did the relatively high oil consumption suddenly develop being brought to your attention by a low oil level/pressure condition?

With high oil consumption, one would expect blue exhaust smoke. However, the engine is most likely smoking, but not enough to overwhelm the cat converter capability to burn the smoke from the oil consumption occuring.

[diagnosticator]

Have some more info and a few more questions. So replacing my SAI pump today I saw this...


Looks like a turbo seal is leaking? I was told by the previous owner a new turbo was installed probably 50k ago (at 150k now). Not sure if its residue from previous or its actually leaking. It did look wet though. As far as the pressure issue, I also noticed the oil change place I went to did not use the correct filter so I'll be changing it soon. After I added the oil though I have not had the oil pressure light come back on but I'm thinking I should do an oil pressure test just to be sure my bearings are ok.

My question is how can you rule out oil sludge? Can you just peek in the filler hole or would it be noticeable on the stick? Also is it worth replacing piping & pcv valve to just rule it out?

When a sludged engine is treated/cleaned up by an Audi dealer, the crankcase ventilation system plumbing is replaced also.

[mosnet99]

Why not? What is so difficult about adding a liter of engine oil every third fuel fill up, or ~1/3 liter every fuel fill up?

How long have you owned your A4?

Did the relatively high oil consumption suddenly develop being brought to your attention by a low oil level/pressure condition?

With high oil consumption, one would expect blue exhaust smoke. However, the engine is most likely smoking, but not enough to overwhelm the cat converter capability to burn the smoke from the oil consumption occuring.

Well I would think this car wasn't sold from the dealer with the instruction that you need to add oil every 3 fuel fillups. That would just sound crazy to prospective buyers. Even at 150k I wouldn't think adding that much oil should be normal. I just want to know what needs to be done to get it back to oil lasting enough between 3k to 5k mile oil changes.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

[mosnet99]

I'm about to do an oil pressure test first then compression test. Anyone know if anything more than teflon tape needs to be added on the sender when reinstalling?

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

[diagnosticator]

Well I would think this car wasn't sold from the dealer with the instruction that you need to add oil every 3 fuel fillups. That would just sound crazy to prospective buyers. Even at 150k I wouldn't think adding that much oil should be normal. I just want to know what needs to be done to get it back to oil lasting enough between 3k to 5k mile oil changes.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

New cars are sold with the advice to check and add oil as needed every fill up. The engine must use some oil. If everything is within the specified wear limits, the various seals don't leak and the rings are in good condition with a properly maintained crankcase ventilation system, the engine won't burn a lot of oil.

[mosnet99]

New cars are sold with the advice to check and add oil as needed every fill up. The engine must use some oil. If everything is within the specified wear limits, the various seals don't leak and the rings are in good condition with a properly maintained crankcase ventilation system, the engine won't burn a lot of oil.

This is my first turbo car but I've owned a 2L Jetta & a 2.8 A4, neither of which I needed to add oil in between oil changes. Not to mention my mom's 2.0 tsi (tiguan) that doesn't need to add any oil between changes either. Maybe at a used car lot but not new or exceptionally maintained cars

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk