EPS/CEL P0300/P0140/C0700 rough idle, etc?

[B8Nate]

So I'm driving home today.

I am just driving at 70mph and all of a sudden my CEL starts flashing (I instantly know that's a misfire) I pull of to run the codes. I start it back up. It took a few cranks to start. It finally starts and the car sounds like a cammed v8. It's literally no power. It builds boost, but doesn't go nowhere. I was driving through my neighborhood, pressed the throttle, builds a normal amount of boost, but no power and no go. Then my EPC light comes on???

So I get home and In Garage and run codes again. P0300 comes up again and the EPC light stays illuminated and C0700 whatever that is?

The car feels like it has literally no power at all, rough idle sounds cammed, barely starts, and have all those? Seems like new coil packs + plugs? But what scares me is if it was just coil pack and spark plugs, it would just be the misfire code (p0300) but I have a p0300 sometimes p0301 or p0302 AND THE random c0700 light..?

Any help guys? :(

[B8Nate]

ALSO... Getting into it now to check plugs and coil packs. And there's a very strong smell of gas in my oil... What is that from?


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[B8Nate]

Okay, reset CEL's and started car back up after unplugging throttle body & checking PCV valve, couldn't really tell if PCV was messed up or not. Still misfiring. So, checked coil packs and plugs... Plugs don't look healthy at all and cylinder 2 (the one detecting a misfire on CEL p0302) has a missing tip. And cylinder 1 looked pretty fouled. 3 and 4 looked "okay" at best.
SOOOO....
Going to order the red top coil packs and new plugs off ECS and after that we should be okay! If not, I'll recheck the pcv valve and check fuel injectors as well. When I did carbon cleaning not even 10k miles ago, I cleaned injectors then. I'm assuming the missing tip on the cylinder 2 plug caused the fuel not to be burnt hints why my oil had a raw fuel smell. Will update post when I receive new coil packs and plugs and let you guys know what's going on.

ANY advice on the subject between now and then is welcome.

[pierreb]

No timing chain noise? Sounds like a tensioner failure to me but I don't know your car or mileage.

[B8Nate]

No timing chain noise? Sounds like a tensioner failure to me but I don't know your car or mileage.

Only 60k on motor. No timing belt noise (not sure exactly what it would sound like as I've never had a car with high mileage or heard a bad timing belt).

Sounds normal to me. Besides the idling. It just sounds like it's a cammed v8, misfiring almost like it's going to die. Just rough. Never stalled though. Oil smells like raw fuel. Makes me think, That cylinder 2 (the CEL said there was random misfire "P0300" and cylinder 2 misfire "P0302" ) only two I'm getting now. Was missing the tip of the spark plug (would fill up with gas and not be ignited would make sense why the oil smells like fuel). And If coil packs are original. They could be bad too I'm sure. And I know for sure plug #1 is fouled and #2 is broken 3 and 4 looked "ok" at best. So they def needed replaced.

So to be safe I ordered the RED TOP r8 plugs AND iridium plugs from ECS so that should correct the random misfire and misfire in cylinder 2. New plugs and coils should fix it *knock on wood*


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[B8Nate]

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[asfastas63]

Are you tuned? Make sure to gap your plugs before they go in if so. No tip on that plug would definitely cause the cylinder to go down - I'm just worried where the tip is. Did it make it out the exhaust valve or is it going to bounce around in your cylinder and eat up the motor next time you turn the car on. I would get a bore scope to inspect at the very least.

[Jg3]

When I had the tip missing like that it was timing tensioner failure and the tip scratched piston walls and broke a valve

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[kdaffy]

When I had the tip missing like that it was timing tensioner failure and the tip scratched piston walls and broke a valve

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out of curiosity, what was the mileage on your car when this happened?

[Jg3]

out of curiosity, what was the mileage on your car when this happened?

76k was going 75-80mph, uphill, with a/c on, and APR stage 1 tuned after long wait at us/Mexico border. So I guess I kinda asked for it.

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[Jg3]

I hope it's not your timing tensioner because it's a nightmare if your dealer warranty is void like mine was

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[B8Nate]

Are you tuned? Make sure to gap your plugs before they go in if so. No tip on that plug would definitely cause the cylinder to go down - I'm just worried where the tip is. Did it make it out the exhaust valve or is it going to bounce around in your cylinder and eat up the motor next time you turn the car on. I would get a bore scope to inspect at the very least.

yeah I am tuned, the stock canned tune that came with my k04 from previous owner, when I ordered new plugs and red top plugs from ECS I called them and let them know I was k04 and my mods to get the proper gapped plugs. I don't think the previous owner even upgraded the coil packs they're the stock grey top coil packs and idk what the stock plugs are but he had those ^ bosch double platinum plugs in there. Which might explain why it got broke bc I'm not sure what plugs you're suppose to run with k04 and if he had the proper ones installed. I just know I have the correct ones and the red top coil packs on the way, suppose to arrive tomorrow.
but yeah my EPS light came on I was cruising about highway speeds omw home and it just started running really funny, EPS came on and CEL was flashing. I got it home with it idling and sounding very cammed v8 like. I pulled the codes and got the above ones on my original post. But after clearing them and restarting the car I only got P0300 AND P0302 misfire codes with it still idling weird.
So I pulled plugs and coil packs and discovered that tip was missing. So wouldn't I of got a code for the tensioner going bad? Or no? I've never had a timing belt or tensioner go bad on any of my cars before so I don't know the side effects or noises, how would I go about checking my tensioner and/or timing belt for them being faulty? But yeah I'll get eyes on the cylinder and make sure the tip made it out. If not I'll go about extracting it somehow. :/

When I had the tip missing like that it was timing tensioner failure and the tip scratched piston walls and broke a valve

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yeah knock on wood that's not my case, it's just my plugs and coilpacks, I will get a bore scope in there and make sure it made it out, if not I'll use a magnet to get it out or something??!

I hope it's not your timing tensioner because it's a nightmare if your dealer warranty is void like mine was

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dang really? Do these go bad often on our cars? I hope not either, I'm sure my warranty is voided.

[B8Nate]

I just youtube'd when the audi/vw 2.0 tfsi tensioner breaks a guy named "humble mechanic" he's an audi/vw mechanic and anytime I'm confused on shit I youtube his channel for an answer lol and he says I'd get a number of CEL for the crankshaft timing over advance/over retarded as well as a rattle noise from the passenger side of the engine, and also the car would either die while driving or wont start at all. That's not the case. After I made it home, it never died. And it fired right back up and only had two misfire codes once started back up 2 with the previous codes cleared.

Video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAdSyBRHOPs

[B8Nate]

UPDATE:

Installed new plugs and red top coil packs, still misfiring, what else could it be? I've ruled out timing belt or tensioner simply b/c the car starts fine and runs. It just misfires. I cleared all codes and when installing new packs and coils. I only got p0300 (random misfire) and p0302 (cylinder 2 misfire) ... And car still sounds cammed & misfires. I just cleaned injectors not even 5k miles ago, car has 63k miles on it, could it be injectors still? Also thinking harness that runs from car to coil packs (how could I test for spark?) it's kind of hard to get he coil packs and spark plugs out to test for a spark. Also what else is possible? If coils and plugs are for sure 100%, harness and/or injectors? Is there anything else I could check?

ALSO PS: got bore scope in cylinder 2 and really checked around also 1, 3 and 4 just to make sure all looks well. Cylinder 1 was a little dirty (prob run sea foam once I get everything else fixed) but cylinder 2 (there was no spark plug electrode/tip in the cylinder so it def got pushed out the exhaust) so that's good. Cylinder 2-4 looked nice and clean, no chips, scoring of the walls. Everything looked okay.

So I'm at the mercy of you guys... Any insight is much appreciated. :( like I said... Plugs and coils are good, now I guess I have to check injectors and harness. Idk how to test for spark on the plugs with how tight the plugs and coils are in our car. So any help on how to check for spark coming from the coil packs and plugs would help me rule out harness. And would lean towards injectors either being stuck open and overloading it or no fuel at all. Please let me know. Thanks in advance.


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[B8Nate]

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[pierreb]

Disconnect PCV from intake manifold and cap the port on the manifold.

Check front/rear seals for leaking.

You could have a damaged head.

[Dub_prime]

Whatever you do stop running it until you find that electrode lol. Have you changed the oil to see what kind of shrapnel is in it? You can also do a compression or leakdown test to see if that's the issue.

[B8Nate]

Disconnect PCV from intake manifold and cap the port on the manifold.

Check front/rear seals for leaking.

You could have a damaged head.

So disconnect PCV cap off the intake side of the manifold, and if there's leaks anywhere on the head = damaged?


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[pierreb]

If it still runs rough with PCV disconnected then I think the head is damaged, yes. I would check the front and rear seals no matter what.

[B8Nate]

Whatever you do stop running it until you find that electrode lol. Have you changed the oil to see what kind of shrapnel is in it? You can also do a compression or leakdown test to see if that's the issue.

I know for sure the electrode got pushed out the exhaust side, and I have no cats. So there's no "finding" it. But there's nothing in ANY cylinder and they're all in good condition. So I'm leaning towards injectors or harness, no boost leaks, nothing wrong but the misfires... I don't have the tools to do a compression test. I just need to know how to test to make sure I'm getting spark in cyl 2 so I know my harness is ok, and then I can go onto testing injectors.


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[B8Nate]

If it still runs rough with PCV disconnected then I think the head is damaged, yes. I would check the front and rear seals no matter what.

Okay I'll check them. And what/where exactly will leak? I'll test to make sure my head is good. Check injectors and to make sure all 4 cyl have spark. Then I'll check MAF as well. I heard it causes misfires when not working or dirty.

[B8Nate]

If it still runs rough with PCV disconnected then I think the head is damaged, yes. I would check the front and rear seals no matter what.

And if it runs better when PCV disconnected what does that mean?


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[pierreb]

Possible PCV failure or leaking front or rear main seal. The PCV diaphragm is $17 on Amazon. The PCV valve is a couple hundred and diy but you have to make sure to get the right one for your VIN and ECU. If it's a white top one now you need to get a white top replacement.

[B8Nate]

Possible PCV failure or leaking front or rear main seal. The PCV diaphragm is $17 on Amazon. The PCV valve is a couple hundred and diy but you have to make sure to get the right one for your VIN and ECU. If it's a white top one now you need to get a white top replacement.

Well alright in addition to testing injectors, MAF, and to make sure all 4 cyl are getting spark. I'll check rear/front seals to make sure they're not leaking. If I had a leaking/bad pcv valve (not sure how that'd cause a misfire). Couldn't I just buy a PCV delete kit + catch can instead of buying a new PCV?


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[pierreb]

It's not much effort to rule it out. To be honest my $ is on a damaged head (bent guide or bent/burnt valve) but you have some easy cheap shit to try first.

And I'd replace tensioner and chain guides because it's probably the garbage one anyway.

[B8Nate]

It's not much effort to rule it out. To be honest my $ is on a damaged head (bent guide or bent/burnt valve) but you have some easy cheap shit to try first.

And I'd replace tensioner and chain guides because it's probably the garbage one anyway.

I just don't know man, low miles and I've never had issues from it. I didn't think heads would be bad. And it seems to be ONLY cyl 2 misfiring. It's the only one causing me issues. I just think it's an injector or the harness. But I'm going to check PCV, injectors, MAF, head for leaks, and to make sure I even have spark in cyl 2 via the harness.


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[pierreb]

My cyl 2 misfire never went away until I replaced my cyl head. We don't know if it was because of carbon buildup from a cam solenoid that was occasionally disconnecting or from a frozen tensioner. We're pretty sure it was a damaged guide. Either way it had to go before my misfires went away.

However, I figure you should try the cheap diag stuff first.

[B8Nate]

My cyl 2 misfire never went away until I replaced my cyl head. We don't know if it was because of carbon buildup from a cam solenoid that was occasionally disconnecting or from a frozen tensioner. We're pretty sure it was a damaged guide. Either way it had to go before my misfires went away.

However, I figure you should try the cheap diag stuff first.

Yeah I'm beginning all my testing now to see what's up. I'll report back after I test PCV and for leaking on the head.


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[B8Nate]

My cyl 2 misfire never went away until I replaced my cyl head. We don't know if it was because of carbon buildup from a cam solenoid that was occasionally disconnecting or from a frozen tensioner. We're pretty sure it was a damaged guide. Either way it had to go before my misfires went away.

However, I figure you should try the cheap diag stuff first.

Okay disconnected the hose from PCV valve to manifold, capped off manifold side and ran it for about 30-40 seconds. No leaks on front or rear seal. All looked well. It ran the same. Cleared codes and got the same codes again. P0300 and p0302.

I then turned car off, hooked PCV valve back up. Then started checking MAF, I cleaned it. I cleaned my apr carbon fiber intake and filter. Hooked it all back up. Had my wife start my car, I unplugged MAF while she had it running. Ran the exact same. Not worse. Not better. COULD IT BE FAULTY MAF? If I unplugged MAF and it didn't die, it ran the exact same. I haven't checked for spark in all 4 cyl or to make sure injectors are okay, b/c honestly idk how to really test that.

But heads seem good. No leaks. Cleaned air filter and intake. Ran car disconnected MAF ran the same (maybe that's my issue?) and all I have left to check is spark in all 4 cyl to make sure harness is good. As well as injectors. PCV seems fine. I looked up faulty PCV and it says it only causes misfires at idle and causes vacuum leaks (I have misfires on idle and driving and no vacuum or boost leaks) so I don't believe I have a bad PCV or heads. As they both seem fine and no leaks. I'm leaning towards MAF, bc when I disconnected that I expected the car to die or run worse. And it stayed the same. But haven't ruled out injectors or spark plug / coil pack harness.


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[van462]

If you had unplugged the MAF at idle and gotten a change then it would be bad. At idle even with the engine warm the injector cycle is based off of the maps more than the MAF reading. If you had revved it with the MAF disconnected it would have been really rough (and likely a code). Without knowing your fuel trims or o2 readings it will be hard to determine if you have a failing injector. If may be spraying too little and going lean causing detonation causing spark plug damage or stuck open and turning into a flame thrower that melted the plug tip off. If you pull your plugs again directly after a short run on a cold motor (to have the injectors spraying) look for the tan/light brown and dry color shown on 3 of your plugs above. If one is still wet with gas its stuck open.
Further troubleshooting will require at least a OBD dongle and possibly a compression/leakdown test.

[B8Nate]

If you had unplugged the MAF at idle and gotten a change then it would be bad. At idle even with the engine warm the injector cycle is based off of the maps more than the MAF reading. If you had revved it with the MAF disconnected it would have been really rough (and likely a code). Without knowing your fuel trims or o2 readings it will be hard to determine if you have a failing injector. If may be spraying too little and going lean causing detonation causing spark plug damage or stuck open and turning into a flame thrower that melted the plug tip off. If you pull your plugs again directly after a short run on a cold motor (to have the injectors spraying) look for the tan/light brown and dry color shown on 3 of your plugs above. If one is still wet with gas its stuck open.
Further troubleshooting will require at least a OBD dongle and possibly a compression/leakdown test.

Yeah I revved it, with MAF disconnected and it was popping/backfiring out my exhaust when I let off throttle. So I turned it off. So yeah unlikely it's MAF then?

I pulled plugs again & all of them EXCEPT cyl 2 are black, dry/sooty looking (like I was running rich?)
I cleared codes, cranked it, re-scanned, repeated these steps a few times and code wise, it's no longer ONLY in cyl 2. Which is weird.
I get random misfire (p0300) no matter what and it'll always be paired with p0301 OR p0302... never both, it just went back n forth. I have yet to get a code for p0303 or p0304 ---
It's always just p0300 + p0301 OR p0300 + p0302...
So cyl 3 and 4 seems fine (aside from the plugs being black). But anyways yeah it gives me a p0300 for random misfire and switches back n forth from cyl 1 and 2. So it seems cyl 1 or 2 has an issue. ALSO, I don't have a light tan/brown color on ANY of my plugs. 1, 3 and 4 are black and sooty and 2 is dry and clean looking, no oil or fuel on cyl 2 but maybe I didn't look or smell hard enough.


Tomorrow I'll crank car for 10-15 seconds and check all my plugs again! So far all I can really remember is what I stated above, 1 3 and 4 being black and sooty and 2 looking okay. But maybe it was clean bc it had fuel on it. I need to check again and smell. so I'll do that tomorrow if 1 3 and 4 are rich idk why maybe b/c I'm staying at idle and not actually driving it. And if cyl 2 is clean b/c it's being covered and cleaned with fuel. That would make sense why cyl 2 plug is clean looking, but I'm going to smell it tomorrow when I check again, thanks man!

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[B8Nate]

Tomorrow I will be testing compression, spark and injectors at a local shop that my buddies dad owns! Will report back to the issue, I've heard there's an extended warranty that covers faulty fuel injectors in the 2.0tfsi audi a4 motors. That last for 10 years or 120k miles? Link posted below, that being said, wouldn't I be able to take my car to Audi to have them repair it for free if it happens to be faulty injectors???





http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-Notice-letter

[asfastas63]

If you pull in with a KO4 and ask for warranty work you're going to get laughed at.

[pierreb]

Injectors are covered to 120k regardless of turbo on or not on the car.

[B8Nate]

Injectors are covered to 120k regardless of turbo on or not on the car.

Yes you're right. I called stealership and for once they aren't sounding like a bank. And more of "nice" people. They said mods do not effect the warranty b/c regardless of mods. The injectors still have issues from the factory. Regardless of what's done to it. So will be testing compression, for spark in all 4 cyl and injectors today at my friends shop. And will try to pin point problem. With only 63k miles on my car, I've had so many problems with this car I've never had with any other brand (Hyundai Genesis, Nissan 370Z and even FORD lol I had a 5.0 mustang) I'm starting to get scared away from the Audi brand, oil consumption issues, spark plugs and coils going out, carbon buildup, CV axles, passenger side spindle breaking, and all you guys telling me even though it's not my timing belt or tensioner this time that @ 63k miles it's due to break anytime now... I bought an Audi thinking it's last me and be a good car. I'm quickly changing my mind. But hopefully I can pinpoint the problem to injectors and have them replaced via the Boise Audi dealership and not be something major like lost compression. Thanks everyone for the help I'll report back with results of test when I get it to my friends shop. (I'm trailering it btw just so nobody accuses me of driving it like this, it's been started up for 30-40 seconds at the most maybe 5-6 times)


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[van462]

If one cylinder has a stuck injector it could cause other cylinders to misfire, even more so at idle. The extra fuel washes into the crankcase. At idle, intake manifold vacuum is at its highest. The fuel in the crankcase easily vapors and is sucked thru the PCV into the intake. Fuel vapor laden air plus the injector pulse will send you rich. Here is where seeing the first o2 sensor lambda helps out. I wouldn't be surprised if cylinder 2 injectr was leaking. The plug might look ok due to the fact that cylinder is running so rich it can't fire at all. At higher RPMs when the airflow picks up it may be firing. Granted these are all just guesses.

[B8Nate]

Well... Cylinder 2 has no compression. Cylinder 1, 3 and 4 have 145-150 compression. And cylinder 2 has none. At 62k miles. What in the actual fuck. I have misfire in cylinder 1 and 2 none in 3 and 4 and no compression in cylinder 2 (the one the spark plug tip broke into) ... I'm legit at a loss for words. Audi has been the most shit brand car I've ever had in my life. I had a Hyundai with over 100k miles, a 370z full bolt on with 76k miles and a 5.0 mustang with 56k miles and none of them even skipped a beat. But this car between carbon build up, spark plugs and coils going out, CV axles going out, oil level sensor going out, I mean the list goes on and on. And I've not owned this car even a year yet. It's ridiculous. At 62k miles that it's got so many issues. I've literally dumped more money into fixing it then I have on the loan to pay it off, I haven't even been able to enjoy it the whole 9-10 months I've owned it. I will NEVER buy an Audi again I assure everyone of that...


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[B8Nate]

If I've never had an oil consumption test done or fixed. Could it be I have bent valves and ruined piston rings b/c of that? Or what? I'm just trying to have some leverage when I go to the dealership. If the oil consumption issue causes piston rings to go bad. And I blew a piston ring b/c of my oil consumption issue. Then would they replace pistons and rings under the oil consumption recall/warranty?


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[pierreb]

I don't see how that's possible. I think at least 2 people told you what's wrong in this thread already, including me. Your timing got fucked by tensioner failure = new short block + cyl head in your case. Sorry dude.

[B8Nate]

I don't see how that's possible. I think at least 2 people told you what's wrong in this thread already, including me. Your timing got fucked by tensioner failure = new short block + cyl head in your case. Sorry dude.

we've looked at timing belt and tensioner, all is okay man. It's bent/burnt valves we suspect. Have an appointment to drop it off at Audi Friday, May 27th. I get a loaner for the weekend and they're not charging me for diagnosis. Guess that's what cha get when you drop a few cuss words to Audi of America. But anyways, no, timing is fine. Car runs. If my timing was off it would stall or not crank at all. And it starts and runs fine, it just misfires and mainly in cyl 2. My buddys dad owns a shop and worked on euro cars before, my friend and I did compression test, injectors and spark, all was fine EXCEPT compression. CYL 2 0%.... 1 3 and 4 had 150+ so of course I know about cars but I wanted a second opinion. So I got it trailered to his shop and he ran some diagnosis on it, checked everything... Also did a compression and leak down test. It's def no compression in cyl 2. Block is fine and no leaks from front or rear when running. So I DO NOT think it's timing belt or tensioner for the simple fact, the car runs, the car starts first crank, and there's no noises coming from timing belt. I'm gonna try to have Audi cover it and if not, I'm gonna have the head taken off, taken to machine shop to port and clean it, new valves all the way around since the heads off, new head gasket and put it back on and call it a day and sell the car asap honestly. Audi's been the worse brand I've owned. Worse than Hyundai, worse than Nissan and def worse than Ford (of all brands) lol....