Deciding between a V8 S5 and an N55 335i

[katatonia]

These are both about the same price and can be found under 80,000kms fairly easy. Assuming I choose cars that have already been properly maintained, anyone know which would be less of a pain in the ass to own, maintenance wise? I have access to a shop with a lift so I could DIY most stuff but complex things like timing chain, clutch, etc I probably could not.

Looking at 2008-2011 S5's and 2011-2012 335i's. Are the newer V8 S5's more reliable than the older ones?

I'm already dead set on either car so don't tell me to buy japanese if I'm worried about reliability. I already know both cars require maintenance I'm just trying to get a solid answer on which is more reliable than the other.

[ians]

Go for V6 supercharge S5

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[Sweep]

Maintenance wise I would assume the S5 is a bit better. It's a NA V8, nothing too complicated and the only issues I've really heard of is some carbon buildup and sometimes high oil consumption. The N55 is a twin turbo which I've heard can be pretty troublesome. Do a search on the 335i reliability to see what I'm talking about

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[katatonia]

Maintenance wise I would assume the S5 is a bit better. It's a NA V8, nothing too complicated and the only issues I've really heard of is some carbon buildup and sometimes high oil consumption. The N55 is a twin turbo which I've heard can be pretty troublesome. Do a search on the 335i reliability to see what I'm talking about

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N55 is single turbo and is much more reliable than its N54 predecessor, hence why I'm looking at 2011+.

- - - Updated - - -

Go for V6 supercharge S5

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A bit out of my budget. I'd consider a B8 S4 maybe.

[Sweep]

N55 is single turbo and is much more reliable than its N54 predecessor, hence why I'm looking at 2011+.

Apologies, you are correct I just fact checked myself after posting. I was thinking of N54. I'm still sticking with my belief that in general a NA motor will be easier to deal with than a turbo.

I'll let actual v8 s5 owners chime in on their experience now.

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[ians]

Put aside the maintenance, the N54 give you turbo lag, bad gearing ratio, hot too humid will sluggish, cold & dry will hesitation. I only enjoy driving mine on a nice weather with temp between 10℃ - 25℃

But on the other hand, my S5 give me enjoyment driving it all 365 24!

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[katatonia]

Put aside the maintenance, the N54 give you turbo lag, bad gearing ratio, hot too humid will sluggish, cold & dry will hesitation. I only enjoy driving mine on a nice weather with temp between 10℃ - 25℃

But on the other hand, my S5 give me enjoyment driving it all 365 24!

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I'm not buying an n54

[TTRStud]

S5 V8 will be more reliable - bullet proof engine, NA, meaning less heat/pressure and less components to break. The n55 is superior to the n54 reliability-wise, however, there are still stories of the dreaded HPFP issues. That said, I love both the n54/55 engines and I've owned cars with each engine. If you're looking for aftermarket performance, 335i all the way; otherwise, V8 S5 - you'll love it!

[ians]

I'm not buying an n54

N55 give u bit more reliability but more pronounced turbo lag, other then that same shit

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[TTRStud]

I'm not buying an n54

Even if you were buying an n54 (which you're not), the n54's turbos' "lag" is negligible as it's barely noticeable. N54/55 engines reach full torque below 2000 rpm.

[SLU_S5]

I was in the same position two years ago. I drove both and decided on the S5. Build quality felt better, interior was nicer, and the car felt more solid all around in my opinion.

Couple things to consider:

S5 is less common - I probably see 10-15 335s for every S5 I see.

If you care a lot about performance mods and tuning capability, the NA V8 is not for you. It sounds absolutely incredible but there isn't much power to be squeezed out of the NA without buying a supercharger (which costs roughly 1/3 the value of the car itself).

What's interesting is that my stock S5 was running better 1/4 mile times than a (probably stock or lightly modded) 335 at the drag strip.

[katatonia]

What's interesting is that my stock S5 was running better 1/4 mile times than a (probably stock or lightly modded) 335 at the drag strip.

That is interesting. I was under the impression that the 335i is faster stock vs stock.

[TTRStud]

I was in the same position two years ago. I drove both and decided on the S5. Build quality felt better, interior was nicer, and the car felt more solid all around in my opinion.

Couple things to consider:

S5 is less common - I probably see 10-15 335s for every S5 I see.

If you care a lot about performance mods and tuning capability, the NA V8 is not for you. It sounds absolutely incredible but there isn't much power to be squeezed out of the NA without buying a supercharger (which costs roughly 1/3 the value of the car itself).

What's interesting is that my stock S5 was running better 1/4 mile times than a (probably stock or lightly modded) 335 at the drag strip.

Nothing surprising here: AWD vs RWD. S5 doesn't get any tire spin. Put some good tires on the 335 and the roles reverse, specially if the car is indeed modded. Stock for stock it may be rather even. The 335 has less hp and less torque but it also weighs less.

[Vanimal]

What are you using the car for, a DD? I have a 2010 S5 that is my DD since last July. I've owned V8's and forced induction cars.

At my age & what I use the car for I wanted a MEAN sounding V8, AWD, nice updated interior & seats, looks & styling. The B8 S5 fits all of that. I thought about getting a 3.0T S5 with the ability to tune, but honestly 355hp is enough to get me around town, in fact it's plenty lol. My friend has a 335"is" with the M package. It's nice but BMW lines just don't suit me, there's something about the S5 body. Not to mention the interior & seats in the B8 S5 is 10x's better than the 335i if that matters to you.

I also drive my S5 year round, they are meant to be. Drive through PA winters like a tank. So you see it's a "total package" car compared to a 335i, & around me 335i's are a dime a dozen. I'm the only S5 I've seen and get compliments all the time, 335i's are everywhere.

I would take a V8 6.3 C63 (w204) over a 335i, any day, take a look at those. They can be had under 30k now. RWD but will put out some damn V8 power.

I swore i wasn't going back to RWD because AWD is just that awesome. And every time I think about trading my S5 in maybe I just can't find something "in comparable" pricing without a "hefty" out of pocket increase. C63 comes close but again the interior in the w204 is VERY disappointing for a car of its MSRP, it's very displeasing compared to my B8 S5. Looks very dated & really essentially just a C-series interior. NOW the facelift C63's are AWESOME, but they are in a entirely different price bracket lol. Also I ALWAYS think I see a c63 in the road from a distance, but turns out it's just a newer C-series lol :(




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[Vanimal]

Like others mentioned in your price range I would obviously look at the B8 S5. It's a timeless car & who knows in the next few years supercharger prices may come down a bit. But they are awesome, and will be for years to come.

Also take a look at the B8 S4 if you are into tuning and don't mind not having a V8. Also keep in mind it will cost roughly $1800-ish of the tune & pulley kit, tunes aren't $500 cheap like my B5 S4 lol. Also vin locked to your car can't sell them when the car is sold.

I'd also take a peek at the C63 w204. 6.3L V8, if you don't mind the Mercedes styling with "louder" exterior lines. And of course the "meh" interior, which may not bother you if you are looking at the 335i as their interior is nothing special.


I would take ALL of the above over a 335i. Hell cant you get a 2009/2010 M3 for $29,000 now?

He older I get the less I care about how 1/4 times and more about "package". I'm just waiting for those RS5 prices to come down a tad so I can trade my B8 S5 in for that ;)


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[Chanman94]

Like others mentioned in your price range I would obviously look at the B8 S5. It's a timeless car & who knows in the next few years supercharger prices may come down a bit. But they are awesome, and will be for years to come.

Also take a look at the B8 S4 if you are into tuning and don't mind not having a V8. Also keep in mind it will cost roughly $1800-ish of the tune & pulley kit, tunes aren't $500 cheap like my B5 S4 lol. Also vin locked to your car can't sell them when the car is sold.

I'd also take a peek at the C63 w204. 6.3L V8, if you don't mind the Mercedes styling with "louder" exterior lines. And of course the "meh" interior, which may not bother you if you are looking at the 335i as their interior is nothing special.


I would take ALL of the above over a 335i. Hell cant you get a 2009/2010 M3 for $29,000 now?

He older I get the less I care about how 1/4 times and more about "package". I'm just waiting for those RS5 prices to come down a tad so I can trade my B8 S5 in for that ;)


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Can't get an M3 for that price in Canada, at least not in the area OP lives in. They're still sitting around 40k minimum, and that's for higher mileage 08/09's. 2010-12 S5/335is are more in the low 30s range.

As for reliability, the N54/5 is a pretty solid engine, other than the HPFP issue that plagued the earlier models, there aren't any big notable problems. Besides BMW has warrantied the HPFP to 200k km now anyway, so that isn't a big concern. Same goes for the S5, nothing anything major other than the carbon cleaning that has to be done every now and then. If you're planning to tune it and want more power, 335i by far is the way to go. Looks and noise, then the S5.

[Vanimal]

Can't get an M3 for that price in Canada, at least not in the area OP lives in. They're still sitting around 40k minimum, and that's for higher mileage 08/09's. 2010-12 S5/335is are more in the low 30s range.

As for reliability, the N54/5 is a pretty solid engine, other than the HPFP issue that plagued the earlier models, there aren't any big notable problems. Besides BMW has warrantied the HPFP to 200k km now anyway, so that isn't a big concern. Same goes for the S5, nothing anything major other than the carbon cleaning that has to be done every now and then. If you're planning to tune it and want more power, 335i by far is the way to go. Looks and noise, then the S5.

^ What he said, i fit the "looks & noise" category lol. When i was younger, i was in the tuning & power. The S5 is just a awesome looking car, combined that with a V8 with a proper exhaust and you will surely get more looks lol. I have seen my friends 335is, keep in mind that is WITH the M package parked right next to my S5. And i still just prefer the Audi lines, just my opinion.

There is a 2008 M3 20 miles from me with 39k miles for $32,900 but again US they have been dropping in price with the new M3/M4's becoming popular. http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...23326552&Log=0


But you can see what i mean even in a M3 the interior is mehh, i couldn't get over having that old style pixel center display like i used to have in my "2001" B5 S4 after having a color LED center dash display now.

I was also taking a peek at this 2010 Mercedes C63 that was near me with 39,000 miles and it just sold for $28,000! Seems like a good deal, i just couldn't downgrade interior wise. I think the 2012 have a updated interior but you pay out of pocket on that nicely.

[ians]

Even if you were buying an n54 (which you're not), the n54's turbos' "lag" is negligible as it's barely noticeable. N54/55 engines reach full torque below 2000 rpm.

N55 has more noticeable turbo lag than N54. I agree the turbo lag on N54 is quite negligible when compare to the other turbo that I owned before. But when compare to NA and the Audi V6 supercharge, it is still very noticeable. I switch my butt between them everyday so I know which car my butt prefer LOL

[BoostEasy]

IIRC the 4.2 V8 has carbon build up issues so I'd be careful there. Aside from that, I think the S5 is a better looking car by far.

I've had a 2011 335xi and it was a nice car. No issues at all in 2.5yrs leased. My 2014 S5 rides a lot better in suspension (bumps) and handles better than my 335xi. Generally speaking, the 335, even though it's MSRP is roughly in line with the S4/S5, sells and leases a bit cheaper in real life meaning the S4/S5 is arguably a car that drops in between the 335 and M3 in BMW's lineup.

The 335i(xi) will ultimately be a lot faster tuned vs a 4.2 S5 (unless you buy a SC) and the tunes are cheap and plentiful.

The N55 is reliable as is the 6AT if you go the 335i route. The 6MT in my 08 335xi was miserable but it seemed hit or miss if you had issues with them. Most were fine.

I don't know what the status is of the cars you're looking at but I wouldn't buy a used German car without a warranty- that's just me. If you really want it, go for it.

[BoostEasy]

N55 has more noticeable turbo lag than N54. I agree the turbo lag on N54 is quite negligible when compare to the other turbo that I owned before. But when compare to NA and the Audi V6 supercharge, it is still very noticeable. I switch my butt between them everyday so I know which car my butt prefer LOL

OT but I'd disagree here. The N55 in my 2011 definitely had a little less lag than my 08 N54 335 when both were new and stock. BMW even claimed as much and it's no surprise as the N55 turbo is net smaller with less HP potential over and N54. early pre-lagfix N54s supposedly were better but I never drove one.

Comparing either to my 2014 S5, which very aggressively shifts into the highest possible gear when in "D" mode, the N54/N55 were more fun to daily drive because the turbo could spool up pretty quickly to accelerate the car without need for shifting whereas the S5 is always in too low a gear and drives very lazy, like my old 2004 G35 in "Snow mode".

Just press the gas and pass someone in the 335s vs having to wait for a one or two gear DSG downshift then pass in the S5. Mostly the issue is with the transmission logic in the S5, which is why I drive S mode in the city and D mode when not.

[TTRStud]

As far as carbon buildup goes, the S5's v8 is no different than any other direct injected engine from Audi. The car that had notorious carbon issues with its V8 was the RS4.

[ians]

OT but I'd disagree here. The N55 in my 2011 definitely had a little less lag than my 08 N54 335 when both were new and stock. BMW even claimed as much and it's no surprise as the N55 turbo is net smaller with less HP potential over and N54. early pre-lagfix N54s supposedly were better but I never drove one.

Comparing either to my 2014 S5, which very aggressively shifts into the highest possible gear when in "D" mode, the N54/N55 were more fun to daily drive because the turbo could spool up pretty quickly to accelerate the car without need for shifting whereas the S5 is always in too low a gear and drives very lazy, like my old 2004 G35 in "Snow mode".

Just press the gas and pass someone in the 335s vs having to wait for a one or two gear DSG downshift then pass in the S5. Mostly the issue is with the transmission logic in the S5, which is why I drive S mode in the city and D mode when not.

Can't argue with you, both my S5 and 335 are 6MT. The S5 give immediate response as like NA car but with instant push from the point I release the clutch. But my 335i still suffer the lag when it pass through the 1500rpm

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[TTRStud]

OT but I'd disagree here. The N55 in my 2011 definitely had a little less lag than my 08 N54 335 when both were new and stock. BMW even claimed as much and it's no surprise as the N55 turbo is net smaller with less HP potential over and N54. early pre-lagfix N54s supposedly were better but I never drove one.

Comparing either to my 2014 S5, which very aggressively shifts into the highest possible gear when in "D" mode, the N54/N55 were more fun to daily drive because the turbo could spool up pretty quickly to accelerate the car without need for shifting whereas the S5 is always in too low a gear and drives very lazy, like my old 2004 G35 in "Snow mode".

Just press the gas and pass someone in the 335s vs having to wait for a one or two gear DSG downshift then pass in the S5. Mostly the issue is with the transmission logic in the S5, which is why I drive S mode in the city and D mode when not.

Almost right but not quite. The n55 turbo is NOT smaller than one of the n54 turbos. The only reason that it spools up faster is that it employs twin-scroll technology on the turbine housing (look it up), having multiple chambers and allowing it to spool up quickly.

[Vanimal]

As far as carbon buildup goes, the S5's v8 is no different than any other direct injected engine from Audi. The car that had notorious carbon issues with its V8 was the RS4.

SPOT on.

Like TT said, the carbon problem is SO overblown in all honesty in the B8 4.2, like REALLY overblown. Maybe its luck of the draw, but i have spoken to a few Audi tech's and they say it is hardly one of the common problems in the B* 4.2 S5 in the years they have worked at the dealer since the S5 has been out. They said the more common problems at 50k+ miles they see is a thermostat which my friend just had replaced in his 2008 S5 at 100k miles. Or sometimes the coolant res tank will get heat stress cracks, again easy fix.

My 2010 at 76k, and my friend's 2008 at a little over 100k neither have been carbon cleaned both always ran on 93+ gas with your Italian tuneups to assure the carbon is moving . Both cars run great his the same as he has had it since about 30k miles. Sure getting a carbon clean may help, or not. But that is with any performance v8. I actually thought bout getting mine done within the next 15k maybe . Some shops in the US are starting to offer the hydrogen clean method which hooks up through the intake and takes 30 mins. A local German shop charges $150 i think for the service and will help a ton if your case is bad.

Of course you can go the traditional method and pay around $800 to get it fully scraped etc. But $800 every 50k miles is nothing.

TT said it BEST, the B7 RS4 gives the 4.2 a bad wrap. They have to be done every like 10/15/20k miles which is nuts. Gotta pay to play my friends.

[BoostEasy]

Almost right but not quite. The n55 turbo is NOT smaller than one of the n54 turbos. The only reason that it spools up faster is that it employs twin-scroll technology on the turbine housing (look it up), having multiple chambers and allowing it to spool up quickly.

I was comparing the airflow/HP potential and should have used different words- I owned 335s with both engines/turbos and know how big the turbos are. The 2010-2011 N55 turbo is of course larger in size than one N54 turbo, but in the case of the N54 turbo there are two and they move a bit more air.

Twin-scroll helps vs not but the biggest help for the N55 is the turbo itself is just using a "smaller" set of wheels (from an airflow standpoint, 1 vs 2 turbos combined flow) as evidenced by it producing roughly 80-100WHP less than a pair of stock N54 td03-10tk turbos when each is maxed out- about 25% more max power.

[TTRStud]

I was comparing the airflow/HP potential and should have used different words- I owned 335s with both engines/turbos and know how big the turbos are. The 2010-2011 N55 turbo is of course larger in size than one N54 turbo, but in the case of the N54 turbo there are two and they move a bit more air.

Twin-scroll helps vs not but the biggest help for the N55 is the turbo itself is just using a "smaller" set of wheels (from an airflow standpoint, 1 vs 2 turbos combined flow) as evidenced by it producing roughly 80-100WHP less than a pair of stock N54 td03-10tk turbos when each is maxed out- about 25% more max power.

Now you're talking ;) I've owned a 1M (n54) and a 135i (n55) plus another collection of M cars...I'm a fan of the letter ///M :)

[adbender]

My brother has a N55 335i.

Nice car...he has had a tonne of issues with the engine though.

If you dont have and extended warranty on the BMW be warned.

[Atmmac]

I had the n54 335 and overall it had a ton of issues with injectors and carbon buildup. I have yet to have these issues with my s5. I know the n55 is supposed to be a bit more reliable but was told also less tuneable. I did love the jb4 in my 335. Thing was a rocket ship. The interior was blah though and the lines were not as good. Overall I have been much happier with the Audi. Just seems like more a mans car where the 335 is more for a chick. The V8 with the rumble sounds great. Put an exhaust on and it totally blows away the 3.0 in terms of sound. The 3.0 has the tune going for it but how often are you going to use all that power? If you want the full race car feel buy a corvette an m3 or an rs5

[Vanimal]

I had the n54 335 and overall it had a ton of issues with injectors and carbon buildup. I have yet to have these issues with my s5. I know the n55 is supposed to be a bit more reliable but was told also less tuneable. I did love the jb4 in my 335. Thing was a rocket ship. The interior was blah though and the lines were not as good. Overall I have been much happier with the Audi. Just seems like more a mans car where the 335 is more for a chick. The V8 with the rumble sounds great. Put an exhaust on and it totally blows away the 3.0 in terms of sound. The 3.0 has the tune going for it but how often are you going to use all that power? If you want the full race car feel buy a corvette an m3 or an rs5

THIS is exactly how i feel. I had some fast cars in my day. But once i recently turned 30 i sorta changed my outlook, and you are right a lot of times you WANT the power, but you need to ask where are you going to be using it. I really don't crank the RPM's unless I'm merging on the highway as its pretty congested in my area with young kids flying around in their "stance" cars, so id rather not be hit lol. So I opted for more of the "total package" over how fast can I go when tuned.

Spot on as well about the interior, i am simply just not a fan of BMW interior compared to Audi. The 4.2 S5 just seems like a good example of german Muscle, of course id love a RS5 if they would come a bit down in price

I didn't even mention the AWD which is VERY helpful to me living in PA.

I remember i was kicking the idea around to my friend who also has the 4.2 B8 S5 that i thought about trading mine in for a B8.5 face lift. So i could tune it etc & all that fun stuff, and he asked me "but where are you going to use all that power?" And honestly i had no answer for him lol.