Just Got the APR Stage 1 & TCU Tune

[rubicant5x]

I did the APR Stage 1 Tune and TCU Tune at HSTuning in Westlake, OH today. Although I've only driven it around a bit, it's pretty awesome.

The biggest noticeable difference is the higher redline as far as the butt-dyno goes. The shift points are much more precise in Dynamic mode as well as Comfort mode. Where comfort felt sluggish, it feels much more crisp now.

I've only had the S4 for about a month so I am still getting used to the torque curve of the supercharger vs the turbo with the 99 GSX I used to have but it's all good stuff!

HSTuning was great to deal with and runs a top notch performance shop. So far, I'm pretty happy with APR and both tunes.

I'll report back on gas mileage over the next few fill-ups in this thread.

[KnewJack]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a B8.5 S4, well at least 90% sure :)

What state of tune was your GSX? I had a 92 Talon AWD with a DBB FP3575 turbo HK2 272s and all supporting mods. Car was great fun when it didn't break! Little laggy, but I ran a 2.3l stroker and automatic so once the turbo spooled it was never ending pull from 4000 up to almost 9000rpm. How do you like the S4 in comparison to your GSX?

[rubicant5x]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a B8.5 S4, well at least 90% sure :)

What state of tune was your GSX? I had a 92 Talon AWD with a DBB FP3575 turbo HK2 272s and all supporting mods. Car was great fun when it didn't break! Little laggy, but I ran a 2.3l stroker and automatic so once the turbo spooled it was never ending pull from 4000 up to almost 9000rpm. How do you like the S4 in comparison to your GSX?

FP3052, 272's on both, 1G head, Magnus Sheetmetal Intake, DSMLink, 1000CC injectors, Supra pump, blah blah blah... Exactly my sentiments on the turbo, I miss that OOMPH when the boost hit (I was still on the stock 2G bottom end) but the S4 is so much more well built and solid.

I was talking with Jeff at HSTuning about this today...Basically people were making much better numbers on DSM's because they just took what you gave them, "MORE MODS MORE MORE MORE!!!" but at this point in my life, I like having the closed system that is 132522424242515x more reliable and almost as fast. The Audi is a much better looking car, as well..

Here are some pics of the GSX..

[Shaun Perry]

Curious OP, about how much did you pay for the product and install by the shop? First two digits is enough to share if you don't mind of course

[KnewJack]

FP3052, 272's on both, 1G head, Magnus Sheetmetal Intake, DSMLink, 1000CC injectors, Supra pump, blah blah blah... Exactly my sentiments on the turbo, I miss that OOMPH when the boost hit (I was still on the stock 2G bottom end) but the S4 is so much more well built and solid.

I was talking with Jeff at HSTuning about this today...Basically people were making much better numbers on DSM's because they just took what you gave them, "MORE MODS MORE MORE MORE!!!" but at this point in my life, I like having the closed system that is 132522424242515x more reliable and almost as fast. The Audi is a much better looking car, as well..

Here are some pics of the GSX..

Nice! Was that the FP tubular header? I only ever ran the Evo3 Manifold. The 3052 was a great street turbo, hit hard. I had the FP3065 before going to the 3575dbb. Ran a 10.85@129 on the 3065. That was a fun setup.


Pics of 2.3l FP3065 motor





Couple Launches back when it ran 11.70s with an E316G and stock 2.0l. Gotta love those 1.5x 60fts! Best 60ft was a 1.47 after springs and shocks.

[rubicant5x]

Curious OP, about how much did you pay for the product and install by the shop? First two digits is enough to share if you don't mind of course

After tax it came to $2489.00

[KnewJack]

After tax it came to $2489.00

Holy crap! Whole new world! $2500 got you a nice turbo, fuel setup, FMIC and mid 11s back in the DSM world! Lol. Luxury tuning cost I guess.

[rubicant5x]

Nice! Was that the FP tubular header? I only ever ran the Evo3 Manifold. The 3052 was a great street turbo, hit hard. I had the FP3065 before going to the 3575dbb. Ran a 10.85@129 on the 3065. That was a fun setup.


Pics of 2.3l FP3065 motor





Couple Launches back when it ran 11.70s with an E316G and stock 2.0l. Gotta love those 1.5x 60fts! Best 60ft was a 1.47 after springs and shocks.

Sweet setup!! Nicely done!

[rubicant5x]

I don't remember who made the manifold but it wasn't FP..

No joke on the tuning costs either.. Stuff ain't cheap!

[Woodybangs]

You have a 30 day window to return. I just flashed EPL for alot less. Might want to reach out and save your self some big bucks + you can flash at home as well.

[bmoreS4]

You have a 30 day window to return. I just flashed EPL for alot less. Might want to reach out and save your self some big bucks + you can flash at home as well.

This, I had APR, switched to EPL.

Much cheaper and flash at home.

[rubicant5x]

I appreciate the advice but I am sticking with APR. You can call me crazy but having a shop 2 miles from my house for support is a big part of my decision to go with APR.

[Sean@APR]

I did the APR Stage 1 Tune and TCU Tune at HSTuning in Westlake, OH today. Although I've only driven it around a bit, it's pretty awesome.

The biggest noticeable difference is the higher redline as far as the butt-dyno goes. The shift points are much more precise in Dynamic mode as well as Comfort mode. Where comfort felt sluggish, it feels much more crisp now.

I've only had the S4 for about a month so I am still getting used to the torque curve of the supercharger vs the turbo with the 99 GSX I used to have but it's all good stuff!

HSTuning was great to deal with and runs a top notch performance shop. So far, I'm pretty happy with APR and both tunes.

I'll report back on gas mileage over the next few fill-ups in this thread.

Thanks for being an APR customer. HS are great guys and the S4 is an awesome car. Enjoy it all!

[Loe]

Glad you're enjoying it; APR is a strong tune out of the box as is.

[BDP]

After tax it came to $2489.00

That there is why APR came off my list of companies that will get my $$. I was quoted nearly 1k less via EPL for the same services. I can think of a lot of cool things I could do with 1k. Heck even GIAC is cheaper.

[rubicant5x]

That there is why APR came off my list of companies that will get my $$. I was quoted nearly 1k less via EPL for the same services. I can think of a lot of cool things I could do with 1k. Heck even GIAC is cheaper.

You get what you pay for. 😊

[bmoreS4]

You get what you pay for. 😊

100% of the time huh?

Nope

Unrelated note, I'm selling lemonade for $10 a cup, so it must be the best.

[Dakkath]

2489.00 Woooo Weeee..

[Works2shoot]

That there is why APR came off my list of companies that will get my $$. I was quoted nearly 1k less via EPL for the same services. I can think of a lot of cool things I could do with 1k. Heck even GIAC is cheaper.

I get that APR is relying on economies of scale to price their tunes. There are a ton of 2.0Ts out there in the VAG community, which means more people will tune, and thus, more savings can be passed on to the consumer.

However - the 3.0T has been around long enough, and has been deployed in enough cars, that the price should come down somewhat...if only to compete with the other tuners. APR has to have recouped their initial investment enough so that they can become competitive again. Besides, the 3.0T is being replaced in the S4 at a minimum...which means they can start charging a ton to B9 owners.

Hey - as Gordon Gekko said - "Greed is good." Just don't personally think that APR has ENOUGH of an advantage in their tunes to justify the higher price.

[nomis88]

Jump off the APR band wagon. I'm APR and regretting it, don't get me wrong the tune is nice.... But they don't seem to be developing much else for the 3.0. They have something "new" coming out with no details and have not released any info on e85, dual pulleys, program switching, or apr mobile. I wish I had gone EPL from the start and it seems most apr people have the same train of though. Ive been talking with tony and will be dumping in more money to get away from apr

[JeriQo]

wow.. apr stage 1 here is 650

[14S4GWM]

wow.. apr stage 1 here is 650

Not for the S4

[bmoreS4]

Not for the S4

This.

APR is $1299

[KnewJack]

I was reading a thread over on AudiRevolution of them completely bashing the EPL tunes. What's up with that? EPL have vids of some track runs that show good results. Whats the real deal??

http://*******************/forum/ind...topic=2421.350

[Mat@1975]

Jump off the APR band wagon. I'm APR and regretting it, don't get me wrong the tune is nice.... But they don't seem to be developing much else for the 3.0. They have something "new" coming out with no details and have not released any info on e85, dual pulleys, program switching, or apr mobile. I wish I had gone EPL from the start and it seems most apr people have the same train of though. Ive been talking with tony and will be dumping in more money to get away from apr

100% this.

Envoyé de mon SM-G850F en utilisant Tapatalk

[pdqgp]

I appreciate the advice but I am sticking with APR. You can call me crazy but having a shop 2 miles from my house for support is a big part of my decision to go with APR.

100% of the time huh?

Nope

Unrelated note, I'm selling lemonade for $10 a cup, so it must be the best.

In the case of APR I went with them due in part to the hundreds of success stories every dealer I talked with shared and how supportive they felt about the product. The actual VW/Audi place my car came from said they've done thousands and could just like anyone ditch APR and go elsewhere but have had nothing but great support and success with them. That history and reliability adds to the value.

Not that some of the newer but much smaller tuners aren't reliable, etc. but they charge less because they of what they don't have; the history and install base. They also do lack the testing and resources that larger companies have. At the end of the day, I these are $40-60k cars, if a couple grand is hurting someone then perhaps they need to look at their finances a bit harder. Same with tires and other mods. Nothing wrong with bang for the buck but if the main reason to pick something is on price then....

[rubicant5x]

In the case of APR I went with them due in part to the hundreds of success stories every dealer I talked with shared and how supportive they felt about the product. The actual VW/Audi place my car came from said they've done thousands and could just like anyone ditch APR and go elsewhere but have had nothing but great support and success with them. That history and reliability adds to the value.

Not that some of the newer but much smaller tuners aren't reliable, etc. but they charge less because they of what they don't have; the history and install base. They also do lack the testing and resources that larger companies have. At the end of the day, I these are $40-60k cars, if a couple grand is hurting someone then perhaps they need to look at their finances a bit harder. Same with tires and other mods. Nothing wrong with bang for the buck but if the main reason to pick something is on price then....

I couldn't have said it better.

[bmoreS4]

In the case of APR I went with them due in part to the hundreds of success stories every dealer I talked with shared and how supportive they felt about the product. The actual VW/Audi place my car came from said they've done thousands and could just like anyone ditch APR and go elsewhere but have had nothing but great support and success with them. That history and reliability adds to the value.

Not that some of the newer but much smaller tuners aren't reliable, etc. but they charge less because they of what they don't have; the history and install base. They also do lack the testing and resources that larger companies have. At the end of the day, I these are $40-60k cars, if a couple grand is hurting someone then perhaps they need to look at their finances a bit harder. Same with tires and other mods. Nothing wrong with bang for the buck but if the main reason to pick something is on price then....

Feel free to overspend for the sake of overspending, not something I do.

Price was not my reason for dumping APR, I had APR, during the 30 day trial I got tired of the excuses of why APR didn't have switching and nothing past standard stage 2.

So it went back and I grabbed EPL, have been very satisfied.

So funny how people think a tune is some magical creation only mega tuners can do correctly lol, glad I didn't go buy that thinking when I chose Daz for my b5.

[mavz]

Feel free to overspend for the sake of overspending, not something I do.

Price was not my reason for dumping APR, I had APR, during the 30 day trial I got tired of the excuses of why APR didn't have switching and nothing past standard stage 2.

So it went back and I grabbed EPL, have been very satisfied.

So funny how people think a tune is some magical creation only mega tuners can do correctly lol, glad I didn't go buy that thinking when I chose Daz for my b5.

I feel like you totally ignored what pdqgp said. Regardless everyone has their own reasons for choosing whatever tune they want as long as they enjoy whatever

[rubicant5x]

Feel free to overspend for the sake of overspending, not something I do.

Price was not my reason for dumping APR, I had APR, during the 30 day trial I got tired of the excuses of why APR didn't have switching and nothing past standard stage 2.

So it went back and I grabbed EPL, have been very satisfied.

So funny how people think a tune is some magical creation only mega tuners can do correctly lol, glad I didn't go buy that thinking when I chose Daz for my b5.

I came from the land of DSM where 90% of the people did it ALL on their own so you don't have to tell me. However, you inferring that anyone who goes with APR over EPL is misguided or ridiculous is not doing the guys at EPL any favors either. If I was any of the EPL guys I would tell you to tone it down with your fanaticism. There are respectful ways to praise EPL's strengths and there are also ways to discourage would-be buyers. Sure, this is a forum/TehIntrawebz but it doesn't mean it can't be done in a respectful manner.

[bmoreS4]

I came from the land of DSM where 90% of the people did it ALL on their own so you don't have to tell me. However, you inferring that anyone who goes with APR over EPL is misguided or ridiculous is not doing the guys at EPL any favors either. If I was any of the EPL guys I would tell you to tone it down with your fanaticism. There are respectful ways to praise EPL's strengths and there are also ways to discourage would-be buyers. Sure, this is a forum/TehIntrawebz but it doesn't mean it can't be done in a respectful manner.

If you think that my last post was disrespectful I don't know what to tell you. You can keep putting words in my mouth but I only said what I actually said.

Don't like it, sorry.

[bmoreS4]

I feel like you totally ignored what pdqgp said. Regardless everyone has their own reasons for choosing whatever tune they want as long as they enjoy whatever

I agree, I am giving my experience with these products, never said anyone is stupid for buying APR.

[rubicant5x]

If you think that my last post was disrespectful I don't know what to tell you. You can keep putting words in my mouth but I only said what I actually said.

Don't like it, sorry.

I'm not saying your last post was but you are all over a lot of APR related threads with your comments that offer nothing productive other than to seemingly take shots. There are more constructive ways to give your opinion that provide value to people who are trying to decide on a tuning vendor.

[bmoreS4]

I'm not saying your last post was but you are all over a lot of APR related threads with your comments that offer nothing productive other than to seemingly take shots. There are more constructive ways to give your opinion that provide value to people who are trying to decide on a tuning vendor.

Yes, in threads about what tune people are using and how happy people are with their choice I post my personal experience. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean it should not be posted or is not constructive.

[pdqgp]

Feel free to overspend for the sake of overspending, not something I do.

My nieghbor has that same though with his Accord Sport V6 vs my S4. Like I told him, I didn't overspend, I'm fine with the costs as I pay for value in what the end product provides but also what the brand provides. To me $2,700 isn't a lot for the performance my mods got me and for the support of the company and dealer who did the installation of everything.

Price was not my reason for dumping APR, I had APR, during the 30 day trial I got tired of the excuses of why APR didn't have switching and nothing past standard stage 2.

so you didn't do the research ahead of time to know what they offered? You wouldn't have had to "dump them" if you'd have done some homework and perhaps even talked with the dealer or APR themselves to discuss what is available.

So it went back and I grabbed EPL, have been very satisfied.

Cool. Lots are happy with them and I'm sure their offering is decent.

So funny how people think a tune is some magical creation only mega tuners can do correctly lol, glad I didn't go buy that thinking when I chose Daz for my b5.

Just the same it's funny how many people think a tune is just something basic that anyone can pull off without issue. I saw plenty of people pop motors and have issues with my last MazdaSpeed Platform.

[KnewJack]

In the case of APR I went with them due in part to the hundreds of success stories every dealer I talked with shared and how supportive they felt about the product. The actual VW/Audi place my car came from said they've done thousands and could just like anyone ditch APR and go elsewhere but have had nothing but great support and success with them. That history and reliability adds to the value.

Not that some of the newer but much smaller tuners aren't reliable, etc. but they charge less because they of what they don't have; the history and install base. They also do lack the testing and resources that larger companies have. At the end of the day, I these are $40-60k cars, if a couple grand is hurting someone then perhaps they need to look at their finances a bit harder. Same with tires and other mods. Nothing wrong with bang for the buck but if the main reason to pick something is on price then....

With older examples of these cars (B8 S4) fetching just over 20k you are going to have an influx of guys just getting into the platform who think $2500 is a high price for a tune. especially coming from the entry level Japanese car tuning spectrum. Personally I've always tuned my own cars, but these cars have a level of sophistication that is beyond some of the entry level and older ODB2 Jap stuff. So I can see how some of the higher tuning prices are justified especially for a proven "safe" tune. It was nothing for me to pop a motor on a too aggressive tune. I could replace a motor in an afternoon and that's partly how I learned the limits of a setup honestly.

1st thing I looked at was the price of a short block for the S4 when I decided to look at this platform. The fact they are easily available and not too expensive is why I even considered this platform. Not that I plan on blowing things up, but when modifying and pushing limits with various fuels (like E85 which becomes E70 in the winter months) you never know. Don't think too many people with an S4 want to go that route though. Lol! So a safe/proven reliable tune is worth it to the majority.

[bmoreS4]

My nieghbor has that same though with his Accord Sport V6 vs my S4. Like I told him, I didn't overspend, I'm fine with the costs as I pay for value in what the end product provides but also what the brand provides. To me $2,700 isn't a lot for the performance my mods got me and for the support of the company and dealer who did the installation of everything.

Another comparison that makes no sense, went from two different tuners offing similar products to buying one car over another from two different car makers that are vastly different. I buy audis because of the quality and just personal preference.

Again choosing to shop carefully and get the most for your money dose not deem someone poor or unable to afford the upgrade, you keep making this about money, that is only one aspect considered when buying a tune.

I want the best setup for me, could care less about the price, if APR did meet my needs like EPL did I'd have no issue paying an extra grand, but I'm not buying the priciest just for the hell of it.

so you didn't do the research ahead of time to know what they offered? You wouldn't have had to "dump them" if you'd have done some homework and perhaps even talked with the dealer or APR themselves to discuss what is available. .

Keep assuming lol. APR told me switching was available. Until I showed up to get flashed and was then told it wasn't ready yet. APR gave me the "any day now" emails and after three weeks of being jerked around I decided to jump ship.

[pdqgp]

Another comparison that makes no sense, went from two different tuners offing similar products to buying one car over another from two different car makers that are vastly different. I buy audis because of the quality and just personal preference.

Makes perfect sense. A car is simply a means to go from point A to point B. Your tune takes you to Performance Level X as do APR and others. Honda drives go for less money as do EPL users. The only thing they really have in common is the end result. You mentioned quality and personal preference as have I. APR has a mighty long and successful history and again, that's worth something to many including me. their network of dealers is large and someone buying my car aftermarket tune and all is likely going to rest vary assured knowing they are in good hands with APR and their list of dealers.

Again choosing to shop carefully and get the most for your money dose not deem someone poor or unable to afford the upgrade, you keep making this about money, that is only one aspect considered when buying a tune.

You're the one who keeps making it about money. In fact that's the basis of your entire point when you entered the thread in post #11. Costs didn't mean much to me.

I want the best setup for me, could care less about the price, if APR did meet my needs like EPL did I'd have no issue paying an extra grand, but I'm not buying the priciest just for the hell of it.

What you call "the hell of it" is what others see value in. Bigger company, longer history, more tunes in service, proven testing, vast network of dealers, etc. Again, not me saying anything against EPL.

Keep assuming lol. APR told me switching was available. Until I showed up to get flashed and was then told it wasn't ready yet. APR gave me the "any day now" emails and after three weeks I decided to jump ship.

Nothing to assume, your actions and what you're saying don't make sense to me. I asked about all those things but I don't jump the gun and buy products that aren't out on the market now. I knew exactly what was out there when I bought mine. Sounds to me like in your situation someone either you or the tuner was confused about exactly which platform you were on. I've NEVER heard anyone say Switching was available from APR on the B8.5 platform. No skin off my nose and I'm sure you've learned a lesson or two. Glad you're happy with EPL.

[rubicant5x]

Makes perfect sense. A car is simply a means to go from point A to point B. Your tune takes you to Performance Level X as do APR and others. Honda drives go for less money as do EPL users. The only thing they really have in common is the end result. You mentioned quality and personal preference as have I. APR has a mighty long and successful history and again, that's worth something to many including me. their network of dealers is large and someone buying my car aftermarket tune and all is likely going to rest vary assured knowing they are in good hands with APR and their list of dealers.


You're the one who keeps making it about money. In fact that's the basis of your entire point when you entered the thread in post #11. Costs didn't mean much to me.



What you call "the hell of it" is what others see value in. Bigger company, longer history, more tunes in service, proven testing, vast network of dealers, etc. Again, not me saying anything against EPL.



Nothing to assume, your actions and what you're saying don't make sense to me. I asked about all those things but I don't jump the gun and buy products that aren't out on the market now. I knew exactly what was out there when I bought mine. sounds to me like in your situation someone either you or the tuner was confused about exactly which platform you were on. No skin off my nose and I'm sure you've learned a lesson or two. Glad you're happy with EPL.

Well stated.

[bmoreS4]

So much miscommunication, anyway, no matter what you buy I hope it works out, and I hope we all share our experiences and results so we can help other guys do the same.