B9 Manual vs S Tronic

[blakspark]

Im just about to order my new company chariot and I'm in a quandary I'm sure many find themselves in....

Do I go Manual or S Tronic, it will be a UK spec Sline 2.0TDI 150PS as we have a HP limit on our fleet cars so no performance machine but not the slowest.
As its a company car, running costs don't need to come into this.

I love driving a car and to be honest I probably thrash my cars too much but hey its not mine at the end of the day, but sometimes I get a little pain in my left knee in queuing traffic from using the clutch too much. Maybe my seating positions a little off?
How is the new 7 speed S Tronic, especially with the manual mode (paddles), my worry is the novelty of S Tronic will wear off and I will miss driving a manual.

If I go S Tonic I'm looking at - Mythos black, 19' 5 spoke, B&O stereo, Matrix LED's, Flat Wheel, Privacy Glass, Folding Mirrors, Heated Front Seats

Manual - Mythos Black, 19' 5 spoke, Technology Pack, Light and Vision Pack, Sound and Comfort Pack, Flat Wheel, Privacy Glass, Alcantara, Folding Mirrors, Heated Seats, Extended Leather interior.
So a much more comprehensive spec considering all the things included in the 3 packages!

Further to this how much of a must is the technology pack? The Light and Vision pack also includes the Virtual Cockpit which I'm pretty taken with.

I know its personal preference but I would appreciate any opinions as I have never owned an auto and I'm having trouble weighing the pros and cons.

Thanks.

[streetspeed]

You go manual. The novelty of the S Tronic wears off in about 5 minutes, or sooner once you realize that it will still automatically shift for you if it gets to redline. The fact that you're getting the little TDI makes the case for the manual even stronger in my opinion. Call the DSG what you will - it shifts for you, and therefore it's an automatic. If you're looking for driving involvement and enjoy throttle blipping and/or heel and toeing, no other transmission besides manual is gonna give you that satisfaction. I'll use the DSG in manual mode when I get this car on the track next week, but other than put it in D or S and drive to work. Flipping paddles up and down to make you feel like you're actually shifting isn't really engaging. I would have bought the manual if it was available in the US but I also bought this car for a nice daily driver, not a light-your-hair-on-fire driver involvement machine. I have this for that:

[Thurston]

what StreetSpeed said! ^

[verymickey]

it's a quandary i wish we had here in the states. Get the manual just to remind us of what we can't have :D

[RudyH]

From a technology stand point, it's hard to say go 6-speed, the Stronic is simply better in every category, except one : Fun

I drove for ~15 yrs manual, got my first 'automatic' and from pretty much every scenario Stronic beats manual hands down. Until you get into even a little beater like a Ford Fiesta 5-speed. You remember the fun you had, and just think, man if I had this in my A4 / S4, you turn into me constantly watching Audi CPO for a 6-speed in the B8.5 to come up.

It was leaked the B9 will have a 6-speed at the end of the year here in Canada (and US), still haven't seen anything certain for the S4 though as the diagram from Audi said only A4 along with the availability of the S4 - so needless to say I think that will turn me into a B9 owner quickly, especially with no 6-speed available in the A3/S3. Golf R is on radar, but I think the B9 S4 6-speed is simply the one I want.

[blakspark]

Thanks guys, seems to be telling confirming my thoughts.

How about the Tech Pack? Not sure if its MMI plus or something like that in the states, is the virtual cockpit worth it?

[streetspeed]

Thanks guys, seems to be telling confirming my thoughts.

How about the Tech Pack? Not sure if its MMI plus or something like that in the states, is the virtual cockpit worth it?

Yes the virtual cockpit is badass.

[jygesq]

Yes the virtual cockpit is badass.

It makes the car seam like a video game. The tach & speedo are graphic representations , not actual gauges . Not as clear as real gauges .

[UmIsThisThingOn]

... It was leaked the B9 will have a 6-speed at the end of the year here in Canada (and US), still haven't seen anything certain for the S4 though as the diagram from Audi said only A4 along with the availability of the S4 - so needless to say I think that will turn me into a B9 owner quickly, especially with no 6-speed available in the A3/S3.

They did the same thing when they introduced the B8 in the US, it was about 3/4 of the way through the MY when they made it available.

Golf R is on radar, but I think the B9 S4 6-speed is simply the one I want.

A good friend of mine described his experience in trying to buy a Golf R from the dealership. He said he had to put down a deposit and choose one of 2 configurations; base model w/o options or fully loaded. He chose fully loaded and the color he wanted. They told him that their allocation depends on how much they sold the previous year, so it could be a small number. Then he was placed on the waiting list.

He waits 2, 3 months, then at 6 months he's pretty heated about the way this is happening, they tell him they can't order cars, that VWoA just sends them a car, the dealer goes to the waiting list and starts calling people. The customer has the choice to buy it or pass until the next car shows up, whenever that will be. They keep going down the list till a customer bites.

That's some straight up bullshit. Hopefully, if you go that route, it's a better process at your dealership.

The dealership had no way to order the cars,

[dbuxton13]

It makes the car seam like a video game. The tach & speedo are graphic representations , not actual gauges . Not as clear as real gauges .

*In the voice of Morpheus* What is real? How do you define 'real'?

Apparently you aren't familiar with digital instrumentation. I have been flying military aircraft with "glass cockpit" instrumentation for 15 years, and it is clearly superior, for many reasons. Really I am surprised it has taken cars this long to catch up.

HUDs and Digital Instruments (called Multi-Function Displays, or MFDs) in C-17:


Audi finally breaking ground with VC + HUD:


Obviously cars are much easier to operate, as pretty much anyone can get a license and climb in a car, and move around in two dimensions. However this tech may just help some of those "lower common denominator" drivers a little bit; keep their eyes up and outside, instead of tilted down and/or sideways (or worse, on a phone).

Even better, digital displays can enhance human-machine interaction with improved visual communication and reduced cognitive load. The digital replacement gauges are not just a duplicate of the old displays, since they can now be dynamic and shift and transform what information is displayed, and when. The right information, at the right place, at the right time. These are also high definition displays, i.e. more "clear" (better resolution) than the displays in my aircraft. Just how much resolution do you think you need?

"The Virtual Cockpit is a 12.3-inch-wide LCD panel that displays the car's gauges and all infotainment. The dash has a resolution of 1440 x 540 pixels.
The system is run by a quad-core Tegra 3 Series processor from Nvidia that generates 60 frames per second and performs 8 billion calculations per second."
-Jim Rossman, Phys.Org

A video game? Go play Forza 6. This is Vorsprung durch technik, dude.

[dbuxton13]

Now back to the OP.

I love driving a car and to be honest I probably thrash my cars too much but hey its not mine at the end of the day, but sometimes I get a little pain in my left knee in queuing traffic from using the clutch too much. Maybe my seating positions a little off? How is the new 7 speed S Tronic, especially with the manual mode (paddles), my worry is the novelty of S Tronic will wear off and I will miss driving a manual.

For some of the same reasons above, manuals are dumb. I drove manual cars for a long time, and I can still recall thinking I'd entered some kind of paradise the first time I drove an automatic in a traffic jam. I really don't understand the mentality that manually shifting gears = driving interaction. Once upon a time we used to start cars with a crank, too. We also entered phone numbers on a stupid slow rotating wheel, typed office memos on a machine that went clackity-clack and was not forgiving of errors, and what the heck we used to churn butter by hand as well.

Automatic gear shifting is superior in every way, and allows you to actually focus on the driving experience. I'm just a nobody, but how about some words from Maurizio Reggiani, Director of Research and Development at Lamborghini (they don't make manuals anymore, here's why):

"All the systems that are integrated in the car need to have a dialog with one another. The clutch is one of the fuses of the system, whether you're engaging or disengaging the torque. This creates a hole in the communication between what the engine is able to provide and how the car reacts to the power of the engine. For this reason, I must say I am sure that in a premium supersports car like [the Huracán], we will only do a semiautomatic.

"It's the demand of the control of the chassis," he continued. "If you want to control the chassis, you must control the power. If you want to control the power, the clutch must be under the control of the brain of the car, not your brain."

So, to each their own I guess, and if you really want a manual, go for it. But I have lost patience with the snobbish mentality from some people that manuals are somehow better, when it is simply a preference that has a cost (in reality several costs).

[Wilbur]

From a technology stand point, it's hard to say go 6-speed, the Stronic is simply better in every category, except one : Fun

I drove for ~15 yrs manual, got my first 'automatic' and from pretty much every scenario Stronic beats manual hands down. Until you get into even a little beater like a Ford Fiesta 5-speed. You remember the fun you had, and just think, man if I had this in my A4 / S4, you turn into me constantly watching Audi CPO for a 6-speed in the B8.5 to come up.

It was leaked the B9 will have a 6-speed at the end of the year here in Canada (and US), still haven't seen anything certain for the S4 though as the diagram from Audi said only A4 along with the availability of the S4 - so needless to say I think that will turn me into a B9 owner quickly, especially with no 6-speed available in the A3/S3. Golf R is on radar, but I think the B9 S4 6-speed is simply the one I want.

Isnt the MT only available in FWD?

[Wilbur]

Now back to the OP.



For some of the same reasons above, manuals are dumb. I drove manual cars for a long time, and I can still recall thinking I'd entered some kind of paradise the first time I drove an automatic in a traffic jam. I really don't understand the mentality that manually shifting gears = driving interaction. Once upon a time we used to start cars with a crank, too. We also entered phone numbers on a stupid slow rotating wheel, typed office memos on a machine that went clackity-clack and was not forgiving of errors, and what the heck we used to churn butter by hand as well.

Automatic gear shifting is superior in every way, and allows you to actually focus on the driving experience. I'm just a nobody, but how about some words from Maurizio Reggiani, Director of Research and Development at Lamborghini (they don't make manuals anymore, here's why):

"All the systems that are integrated in the car need to have a dialog with one another. The clutch is one of the fuses of the system, whether you're engaging or disengaging the torque. This creates a hole in the communication between what the engine is able to provide and how the car reacts to the power of the engine. For this reason, I must say I am sure that in a premium supersports car like [the Huracán], we will only do a semiautomatic.

"It's the demand of the control of the chassis," he continued. "If you want to control the chassis, you must control the power. If you want to control the power, the clutch must be under the control of the brain of the car, not your brain."

So, to each their own I guess, and if you really want a manual, go for it. But I have lost patience with the snobbish mentality from some people that manuals are somehow better, when it is simply a preference that has a cost (in reality several costs).

Not sure anyone said its better. While on a racetrack there is no question that the new AT are superior especially in something like a Lambo but I dont see how it is superior on the street in an Audi for instance. It may be preferred but better? To some automatic is boring. Doesnt matter how fast or how how they communicate with the car AT is AT. Some like it some don't.

[wabbit23]

Now back to the OP.



For some of the same reasons above, manuals are dumb. I drove manual cars for a long time, and I can still recall thinking I'd entered some kind of paradise the first time I drove an automatic in a traffic jam. I really don't understand the mentality that manually shifting gears = driving interaction. Once upon a time we used to start cars with a crank, too. We also entered phone numbers on a stupid slow rotating wheel, typed office memos on a machine that went clackity-clack and was not forgiving of errors, and what the heck we used to churn butter by hand as well.

Automatic gear shifting is superior in every way, and allows you to actually focus on the driving experience. I'm just a nobody, but how about some words from Maurizio Reggiani, Director of Research and Development at Lamborghini (they don't make manuals anymore, here's why):

"All the systems that are integrated in the car need to have a dialog with one another. The clutch is one of the fuses of the system, whether you're engaging or disengaging the torque. This creates a hole in the communication between what the engine is able to provide and how the car reacts to the power of the engine. For this reason, I must say I am sure that in a premium supersports car like [the Huracán], we will only do a semiautomatic.

"It's the demand of the control of the chassis," he continued. "If you want to control the chassis, you must control the power. If you want to control the power, the clutch must be under the control of the brain of the car, not your brain."

So, to each their own I guess, and if you really want a manual, go for it. But I have lost patience with the snobbish mentality from some people that manuals are somehow better, when it is simply a preference that has a cost (in reality several costs).

I wouldn't venture as far as saying manuals are dumb, more work for the driver but certainly not dumb. Acting like an auto is a manual, or even calling it that like a "semiautomatic", now thats dumb.

He makes a great point on how the cars "brain" is superior to the humans brain on being able to communicate the power to the transmission, chassis and so on. However, in his point he doesn't consider that some people prefer the feel and engagement required in getting the power delivery just right, or even wrong at times. I for one enjoy learning the intricacies of the clutch feel, shifter feel and so on each time I drive a manual car. I've had a few dsg cars and plenty of autos but there has always been a better level of feedback from my manuals. I can care less if I have to work more to "go fast", in the end I have more fun doing it.



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[997_4Me]

To me, it's simple...If im in traffic, I prefer being in a DSG. I drove manual for the first 15 yrs of driving. the last 3 yrs have been in DSG with no regrets. Some say DSG is "no fun." Wrong! what's no fun is sitting in traffic and shifting to go 2 ft at a time. I like both but in traffic, DSG FTW!

[Fantasiamon]

I really don't understand the mentality that manually shifting gears = driving interaction. Once upon a time we used to start cars with a crank, too. We also entered phone numbers on a stupid slow rotating wheel, typed office memos on a machine that went clackity-clack and was not forgiving of errors, and what the heck we used to churn butter by hand as well.

I like this guy