EFK switch ideas, does this work?

[A1 A2 German]

I've used a toogle switch to turn on my fan for years, I'd like to install a fan switch (probe) and have it do everything for me.




Left is my set up, right is what I want.



I would like to toss the toggle, and place a 180f fan switch in the lower radiator hose, I would get one of those billet 1" inline couplers that's tapped on the side to except npt fittings to insert the probe. The power wire would run to the fan switch, once it saw 180f it would complete the circuit and send power to the fan. Or is this completely wrong as the switch isn't designed to send power through it and not really a ~switch. And fan switches really only send a signal to a relay or power box, which it turn sends power?


I do not want to run one of those cluster phucks of a relay system, I'm trying to keep the system clean and not run wires back to the ignition system and alot of kits are single wire fan switch probes meaning they have to be self grounded into an aluminum radiator. They don't work on plastic.

If fan switchs are not power switches and only signal switches is there a power model out there? I want the fan switch to see 180f and complete the power circuit.


Not sure I want to tap into the exsisting 3 wire oem fan switch as hooked up to the system and the ac fan reads that signal.

[walky_talky20]

I will do my best to address all your questions.

1) This is not completely wrong. All fan switches are "power switches". That is, they pass some amount of current through them. Whether that is a small amount of current to drive something small (like a relay), or a large amount of current to drive something big (like drive a fan motor directly),it depends entirely on the capabilities (ratings) of the switch you purchase. That said, in almost all cases you will need to use a relay, unless the switch is actually a "controller" which has it's own internal relay arrangement.

2) Not sure why you are so opposed to a relay. Whether it is a clean install or a "cluster" is entirely up to you and your skills. (HINT: Girls like guys who have great skills)

3) Single wire switch is fine. Those types will almost certainly require a relay. Probably not my preference, though. A bad ground to the radiator is a silly reason for the fan to quit working.

4) Yes, there are switches/controllers that handle the whole show. I'mma look in a minute.

5) Tapping the OEM fan switch will not cause problems the AC fan at all. It is just providing a ground to kick 2 relays (hi speed and low speed). The problem is the switch is pretty high threshold (being that there is supposed to be a viscous fan in there - the electric is a secondary). The low threshold closes at about 203F and runs until temp is down to 183F. The Hi threshold kicks on at 215F and runs until the temp is down to 195F. If you want something to come on at 180F, you will need a different switch.

6) I think it would be best if you consider an option that allows you to control the kick-in temperature. This gives you a way to dial it in, rather than just picking a temperature now, and maybe not being happy with the behavior later.

Relay Controller Kit with adjustable temperature and thread-in 3/8 NPT temp sender:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Proform/778/69598/10002/-1

In line hose fitting for attachement of 3/8 NPT sender:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/atm-2283/applications

**Above are just random examples of things that exist. Not the best. Not the cheapest. Just examples.

[A1 A2 German]

Thanks

I've always been relay-less, many Phoenix summers later no issues, the diagram on the left is my current set up. I don't want that wiring bundle in my bay and I certainly do not want to run wiring up to my ignition, and back and forth. Also most kits must have a grounded thermoswitch which means no no for plastic radiators. I just don't want that wiring bundle in my bay after taking so much effort to clean things up. 10 years on a toggle switch, I'd like the themroswitch to now do the job of passing the current. The question is how would I even find such a switch which can pass 30amps and act like a toggle.

[walky_talky20]

You don't have to put the bundle in the bay. Run your fan and switch wires into the cabin. Everything is then in the cabin. Use those 'skills'.

The kit I linked does not require the NPT port be grounded. It is a 2 wire thermal sensor (not a switch).

[A1 A2 German]

The supposed point of the relays it to bring power closer to the object. I went through the instructions on a few kits all all want the relay as close as possible to the fan. Kol it's a sensor and not a switch, saw some that don't even require a wet probe and you simply slide it into the fins of the radiator (on outside).

I should say I don't want the bundle under my dash. I'm trying to get away with a modified 1 line system (like I've been using) yet mod a thermoswitch to do double duty (act like a power switch, act like a temp switch). A kit is the last resort, but if I have too then so be it.

[chris164935]

Perhaps you could leave your current setup and wire in the thermoswitch or whatever? Then, you'd have the 30 AMP switch (I'm assuming you also use it as a circuit breaker) that you could leave on and the thermoswitch would provide power to the fan when the desired temperature is reached, and then turn it off when it cools to a certain temperature. Less work/hassle.

[A1 A2 German]

Yes, I could keep the toggle switch, it's just matter if I can run ~25amps through a thermoswitch.

When the thermoswitch heats it pushes up inside the switch and makes metal contact inside to complete the circuit. It's a matter of if the metal contact(s) can take ~25amps.

[chris164935]

If you can find one, then that would work perfect. If not, I would assume every other setup would involve activating a relay with a thermoswitch.

Under the dash, you can use one of the open spots on the relay panel to mount a new relay. I mounted a second relay for my fuel pump when I was wiring up my stand-alone. I cut a black relay stand off of an old engine harness and used a stock relay that would connect to it. Fit perfectly under my dash in the relay panel. For your setup, you'd be looking at wiring 2 wires into the engine bay. One large gauge (12 AWG?) for the fan and one small (18 AWG) for the thermoswitch. Ground the fan and the thermoswitch somewhere in the engine bay. Then, you could use the same ACC 12v connection to the relay trigger (your 18 AWG) and the fan power (your 12 AWG or whateve AWG you need for the fan). I can draw out a quick diagram if that doesn't make sense what I just typed.

[walky_talky20]

I did some looking. There are a few OE applications that drove a fan directly from a thermoswitch, but it was always a piddly little fan, or just the low speed of said fan.

If you find a thermoswitch capable of 25 amps, I think it will probably cost $100 or more. I found a "heavy duty" 180F switch that was capable of 7amps for $65. A fan relay is basically required in this application.

Wire length is not an issue. The OEM fan relays are under the dash. The purpose of the relay is not to bring power closer to the object. It is to provide a switch that is capable of higher power, but which can be *controlled* with low power. The ability to shorten the power wires by remote-mounting the relay near the load is just an advantageous side effect of having lower power control wires that can be easily extended. If you use the correct gauge wires, you can put the relay in the trunk if you want.

[A1 A2 German]

Alright guys, thanks for the responses.

It appears a single line set up is out of the question as the thermostat acts more like a sender and simply tells a power source to turn on. I guess I'll do the relay, thanks for the heads up on fitting in the oem fuse panel, didn't like the idea of having wiring escapades scattered under the dash. I'll look for a 2 wire thermoswitch like Walky showed or maybe grab that unit. I also did a grommet conversion right infront of the ecu box. All wiring comes out through the box from inside the car, out the box, and drops down into the drivers well through the rain tray via grommets. Then all wiring runs through the fender clicked into the oem evap line hooks along the upper fender rail and drops out under the drivers headlight otherwise invisible.

Just a matter if I'm going to drill and tap my brand new radiator for the aftermarket switch or place one on these inline: http://www.google.com/search?q=alumi...bkkRMhcEIaM%3A

[walky_talky20]

Good plan.

And remember you basically have 2 options here:
- A fixed-temperature thermoswitch (1 wire or 2 wire) that drives a relay.
- A temperature sensor (thermistor, usually 2 wire) that sends a temperature reading to a fan "controller". This allows adjustable fan kick-in temperature. This is what I linked.

You can, of course, incorporate a manual override switch with either option. The 4x4 off road guys actually like to have a 3-way switch (I asked them): Manual ON, Automatic, Manual OFF. This is to shut down the fan for water crossings.

[A1 A2 German]

Alright, found some winning:

- Adjustable
- Aluminum fin push in probe style (slides in between aluminum fins, no messing with coolant, drill & tapping radiator, or adding inline couplings).
- 50% off and free shipping

Already bought: http://m.ebay.com/itm/Hayden-Fan-Swi...326?nav=SEARCH

[A1 A2 German]

Question on wiring:

Red - Battery (So 12v hot, not 12vacc)
Blk- Ground
Yellow- Pos Ignition (Opposed to running this to the ignition wire, can I use a 12v acc source instead?)
Orange- Fan #1 Pos+
Blue- Fan #2 Pos+ (So this is a single fan relay kit, or are they using this system as a multi-speed set up? Orange low speed, blue high)
Green- AC clutch (I take it simply spliced into the green oem wire contecting the ac compressor to the ac mini fan).




Edit: So buying this exposed the flaw in my entire 1 line idea.

Air conditioning.

My toggle system worked as I flipped the switch when I turned on ac, however having my thermostat switch idea, it wouldn't know to turn on.

Edit #2: Red is indeed 12v hot, yellow appears to be any ACC source, green and blue wire if I want 1 or two fans (not fan speed). It's less wires running back and forth if the relay hub is by the fan, opposed to in the fuse panel. Maybe I can hide it under the frame rail, we'll see.

[chris164935]

Is it weather proof?

[walky_talky20]

I'd recommend using 75x as the accessory input. That way the fan will cut out during cranking, which is beneficial.

As for A/C, you should be able to make that work if you want to. I'd have to see a diagram of the controller to make a recommendation on that.

[MrSnickelsnizer]

Here is how i have mine set up. Trigger wire for relay is the 75x.

I plan on swapping this to a coolant temp switch up in the second coolant temp plug location (aeb style coolant flange) coolant temp sensor adaptor fitting would be purchased from ie or 034. This way it doesn't always come on when the key is in the accessory position, unless it was already warmed up.

[walky_talky20]

Mr. SchnitzelHoffer, I like your diagram. What it lacks in fuses, it makes up for with character.

[MrSnickelsnizer]

I appreciate that lol. Sometimes I get so caught up in recreating the image I am drawing, I leave out the little things that can make your car burn to the ground :)

[A1 A2 German]

Been installed for a week now, little unit works awesome.


Red = 12v constant fuse panel (or battery)
Yellow = x75 fuse panel
Green = To green ac wire on fan shroud
Orange = To fan
Black = Ground
Blue = Secondary fan, for anything you want, yet not needed on our applications.



The unit MUST be mounted near the fan as the radiator
probe's wire length is ~24", it is water proof and meant to go in the engine bay. Fires right up as soon as you hit ac, and select a temp to come on when you like. You can also move the yellow wire from x75 to 12v constant if you want the fan to run and cool with the ignition off (till the coolant temp drops).

Installed it under the drivers head light, on the shroud with quick disconnect Bosch/Doctsch connectors (waiting to arrive). Simply unplug the 2 post wire connector (one wire for 12v constant, other 12vACC x75 which go into the car) and the relay assemble goes with the shroud. The ground, probe, brain unit, orange, blue, and green wires and fuse assemblies are part of the shroud itself and not touched (grounded to metal bumper impact absorber) when doing the service position.

The silver screws are holding it, hidden 100% under the shroud (there's a cavity under that lip). And if curious, that wiring assembly you see is the oem assembly that's located under the p/s reservoir black plastic shroud which has been moved. Now hidden under the headlight inside the bumper circumference.

[Seerlah]

I appreciate that lol. Sometimes I get so caught up in recreating the image I am drawing, I leave out the little things that can make your car burn to the ground :)

lol

[MrSnickelsnizer]

Noice. That is definetly one way of doing it. Now that it is summer and i have more not being snowed inside time i will rewire mine and make a proper wire diagram and compare to yours. Yours is definetly a fine way of doing it. Only question is unit is over ridden and forc3d to come on when ac is engaged correct?

[chris164935]

There's also a ground point under the frame rail that can be used in your setup. Might allow you to move those plugs back to their original locations. Looks good though.

[A1 A2 German]

The green ac wire does not have to be used or hooked up. However for ac you want it to come on.

I don't want the original locations for those plugs as I want it all hidden. And for anyone else moving that oem wiring assembly there has nothing to do with the fan relay.