Cam follower day and a few questions.

[Theiceman]

well I have been dreading this day for some time so my buddy came over and we both did it for the first time. I have a 2005.5 and he has a 2007.

I can tell you I would MUCH rather have the banjo bolt than those PITA clamps on a rubber hose like on his car. getting it out and back in was a complete nightmare as the clamps were in the wrong spots and we had no access. We ended up junking them and putting on fuel clamps you can actually get to. Mine was a breeze and was off in 15 minutes once you get the angle figured out. we both have 255K ( kilometers ) on our car. His looked perfect and this car had obviously been well maintained . we dropped in a new one and wrapped it up.

Mine on the other hand was another story. I don't have a hosting service so cant show you the pics but the bottom of the cam follower was completely gone and about a third done broken off. I have never seen one this bad for all the ones I have seen you guys have posted.

The HPFP is trashed and almost worn down to the spring. Seems dumb you have to replace it though as all you really need is that stupid steel button on the end. I am surprised no ne has made one.

the cam definitely has some scoring but I was actually amazed it looked in such good shape. may have to replace it down the road if the engine lasts.

so now I have the dubious job of getting shrapnel out of the timing cover. I looked at the DIYs and didnt see one specifically for the timing cover. I did see one for the vacuum pump so I will start with that tomorrow morning . have one of the bolts out already but decided to leave the other two as I was getting tired.

Is there a diy for the timing cover maybe I missed ?

Also can you get any access at all to the oil pickup without removing the pan ? I am not really in a position of dropping the sub frame and pan so I was wondering if there was any other way of getting to the pickup like through the oil sensor hole or something .

My other question was I was going to pay to have the pan dropped and cleaned out ... worth it ? I would think so given the damage.

Also the "upgraded fuel pump" does anyone have any links , all I can seem to find is the stock ones. I figure I may as well get on eif the price difference isn't too great.


other notes.. got the oil drained.. guy who replaced filter last time was a gorilla and I fought with it for an hour.
replaced the fog lights ( burned out) ,. What a miserable job for a light bulb. ..and that's all I am going to say about that .

that's it about it for now guys ..time to forget about Audi for now and head in for a rest.

[Brillo]

The 'steel button' as you call it is actually the end of the fuel pump piston. On the stock pump it's a straight shaft all the way into the pump compression chamber. It would indeed be nice if you could just replace just the piston but the seals between the follower end and the pump chamber are critical. They have to hold back over 1400psi of fuel pressure so that the oil doesn't get contaminated with gasoline. Just so that you know, the 'upgraded' HPFP mainly has a larger diameter piston. One version, the ESCTuning I think, has a larger diameter piston rod all the way through the seal assembly (photos on their site if you want to see it). Another version, JHM Motorsport, has a larger diameter piston but stepped down diameter going through the seals to the follower similar to stock. These aftermarkets products may also claim special shaft treatment to reduce wear against the seals, but I'm not aware that the seals have ever been a problem on a properly functioning pump. In short the larger pistons are capable of delivering a higher volume of fuel at the specified pressure. As I understand it this is only an issue at the highest engine rpms for non-stock ECU tunes and larger turbos. The stock engine wouldn't benefit much from an 'upgraded' HPFP.

[Axis]

Here's his cam follower and hpfp lobe :





If I'm not mistaking, you could replace the hpfp with the stock hpfp internals from someone who has an upgraded pump. Like me for instance. Sorry wanted to answer you yesterday but I have a kid with the flu and I'm parenting alone this weekend

I really dont understand how your intake cam isnt scored though

[Theiceman]

No Worries Chris I had a full day .. thanks for posting the pics.. looks like a freakin horror story .

I think by the end of tomorrow I should have the big bits out. had to stop and watch us get the first draft pick

[adam044]

That may be the worst follower I've ever seen.

[Theiceman]

well I may as well place first in something ;)

[Charles.waite]

Thats roughly as bad as mine. That blows. Shockingly your pump doesn't actually seem that bad. I would replace the pump and CF for sure. Check the new CF every 500-1000 miles and asses the wear progression. As the lobes wear, the follower wear faster and faster. just keep an eye on it and see how badly its wearing.

As far as the timing cover, no DIY but good for a Cam replacement DIY for a mk6 gti or something. because its transverse you can really easily see the timing cover and the bolt locations in their pictures, there are 7 bolts. The parts are pretty much identical so that will give you a good idea of how to get it off. Make sure you get a new gasket.

[Okedokey]

Do the timing chain, tensioner and carbon clean while you're there. PS you don't need T10020 as you can rotate and align the cams using the T40080.

T10252 here and T10115 comes with the kit below. T40080 here.

https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B7_A4...Kit/ES2718947/

[Theiceman]

Thanks but I think after seeing this damage I am going to limit my investment in time and money. Like most things once I do it once I will be able to do it again in much less time.

First steps are fishing out the big bits, a couple of oil flushes with cheap oil , then just run it for a while and monitor the wear and oil pressure. IF all looks okay after a couple og months , then I will revsit and do the cam , tensioner and other stuff.

im in the middle of another engine build right now so will just keep an eye on this one for now.

so looks like I need cam timing housing gasket, vacuum pump 52 by 2.5mm seal. It will give me a chance so see if I can fix the oil leak in the vacuum pump and if not change it next time around.

thanks for the write up showing the bolt locations for the cover, those bottom two look like a real bear .. can they actually be done with the engine in the car !!! ??

[Theiceman]

Thats roughly as bad as mine. That blows. Shockingly your pump doesn't actually seem that bad. I would replace the pump and CF for sure. Check the new CF every 500-1000 miles and asses the wear progression. As the lobes wear, the follower wear faster and faster. just keep an eye on it and see how badly its wearing.

As far as the timing cover, no DIY but good for a Cam replacement DIY for a mk6 gti or something. because its transverse you can really easily see the timing cover and the bolt locations in their pictures, there are 7 bolts. The parts are pretty much identical so that will give you a good idea of how to get it off. Make sure you get a new gasket.

Charles how has your wear been since your Cf failure ?

[Theiceman]

Okay time a follower up ( sorry about that )
Got the vacuum pump off , not to bad actuzlly , it's rev E and of course leaking from the back panel.
Got the timing cover off, took a while to wiggle off , absolutely no shrapnel in there. I even searched the top of the transmission in case some fell. Washed it all down with brake cleaner into my tray and went over my engine tray with a magnet. Nothing. I just don't understand it.

I don't know what revision cam I have as it has no markings on the end.

I have to consider my options now.

[Axis]

Marking is on the shaft in the middle of the cam. Make sure the rings on the cam adjuster inside the timing cover are good.




So you'll have to check by the vacuum pump hole with your cell phone camera If its two piece like below, rev B or J, or one piece a rev A

[Theiceman]

thanks Chris I got a couple pics with my phone. ill shoot them over to you a bit later. there is a bit of scoring on the lobs but nothing I would sweat.

I had a thought. The car is completely drained of oil . I was thinking ... what if I took the oil level sensor out the bottom of the sump and flushed in with brake cleaner or even cheap oil to have anything in the bottom of the pan flush out that hole . I even have a telescopic magnet I could put in the oil drain hole to pick anything out. Of course I am going to be looking for a magnetic drain plug now.

I thought of spraying cleaner in the drain hole and have it flush out the sensor hole

[Okedokey]

Just take out the pan mate. Not hard and a better job. Also replace filter and put some sea foam in the new oil to clean gunk.

[Theiceman]

getting out the pan means dropping the sub frame does it not ? I just don't have the facilities for that . I may pay someone to do that part if I have to. No sea foam for me . I l just change oil every 1,000km for the first 5k .

[Theiceman]

OKAY SO I DECIDED ON MY APROACH ...

oops sorry

good used hitachi fuel pump and new follower.

Jack car up so oil drain port is down. remove sensor for oil level , flush through solvent to " washout" bottom of pan of any heavier contamination ( just use solvent through a ww pump and rubber hose ) . flush with brake cleaner .. run some dry air through , install magnetic pickup and fresh oil , may be more for peace of mind and sure is easier than dropping sub frame in the driveway on jack stands trying to support the engine .

have new oring coming for vacuum pump and sealant for back panel curing as we speak ( yeah I know it will leak and I will end up replacing it ) also have gasket for timing cover coming.

[ericw.]

in the original post, you complained about the difficulty with the rubber hose clamps. I just wanted to let you know that you don't need to remove those normally. The hoses are flexible and can bend enough for you to change the cam follower.

Hopefully you've learned your lesson and can stay on top of the maintenance going forward. Cam follower is a 10-15min job once you've done it a few times. Good luck with the work, hope the engine can be saved!

[Theiceman]

in the original post, you complained about the difficulty with the rubber hose clamps. I just wanted to let you know that you don't need to remove those normally. The hoses are flexible and can bend enough for you to change the cam follower.

Hopefully you've learned your lesson and can stay on top of the maintenance going forward. Cam follower is a 10-15min job once you've done it a few times. Good luck with the work, hope the engine can be saved!

Well if your " complaining" is my commenting on the difference between the banjo and the rubber hose and me finding the banjo easier due to the clamps on the rubber hose , fair enough.

And I hope you have learned your lesson on commenting on posts without all the facts. Most people have been following my posts realize I bought the car in this condition cheap and I am trying to save it.

But thanks for te words of encouragement. I'm almost there.

[Theiceman]

Bit of an update.

I got my new HPFP. I have the extra port for the Schrader valve so the fuel pressure can be checked. I found this extra piece a pain in the ass. Especially when it has a sensor on it and it can be monitored through vcds I am sure. Especially since you have to keep taking it back off to check your follower . To me it is more of a pain in the ass than its worth.

I decided to plug the port with a pipe plug and sealing washer. I used a pipe plug so I can leave it once sealed and still be able to get to the bolt on the fuel pump.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Okedokey]

Isn't that some kind of pressure release that you've blocked?

[Charles.waite]

Yea it's a diagnostic port that also doubles as a pressure release when you're servicing the pump. You can just crack that plug slowly and essentially do the same thing. That shraeder valve is more annoying than it is useful...

[Theiceman]

Exactly Charles. In fact The 2006 pump doesn't even have it. It is used to hook up a fuel pressure guage or purge fuel pressure for servicing. Cracking the lines does the same thing.

[Theiceman]

Oh one thing of note. Put the bolt in for that part of the pump before the plug. Otherwise you can't angle the bolt in.

[Theiceman]

Okay just to wrap this up for anyone else who might come across this thread , here is a culmination of what I did.

after discovering the broken follower after just purchasing the car ....

1. replaced follower
2. replaced fuel pump.
3. used emery cloth and dressed up rev b cam. ( will replace if cam causes further wear on follower )
4. removed vacuum pump ( rev e ) was of course leaking so repaired back cover with sealant and replaced 53 by 2mm oring also replaced 20 by 2mm oring causing rattling at port for brake booster.
5. Removed timing cover to check for debris and cleaned out ( none found ) replaced gasket and reinstalled .
6. removed valve cover housing to check for debris ( none found ) and validate rev B cam . valve cover in good shape , replaced valve cover gasket and replaced pcv while in there.
7. redressed all wiring harness looms and brackets with all new dome mount cable ties.
8. degreased transmission area and back of engine to observe future leaks in vacuum pump
9. Changed oil and filter and installed magnetic drain plug.

I will update further on my next 5k km oil change ( 3k miles )

engine does sound a bit like a diesel but I have heard this is somewhat normal , lets wait and see.

[Okedokey]

Did you replace the chain and tensioner while you were there? That is often the cause of the diesel sound.

[Theiceman]

cam follower up !!!!

its been 4 months and 5000km since my horrific cam.follower and pump discovery.

son is getting prepared to head back to school so did an oil change and checked the follower. car has used no oil and been running great all summer
checked the cam folllower and it is perfect. no wear whatsoever end is as black and shiny as when i put it in.

maybe im lucky but shows it isnt all the doom and gloom some say it is.

its early days yet but its certainly encouraging news

[Theiceman]

update may 22nd 2017

did a couple more oil changes and checked the follower ( car has 275,000km now ) . Still shiny black and the magnetic drain plug I installed showed nothing but the usual 'fur" around the magnet. Next time I will grab a pic.
So far so good, so if you have had a follower failure don't be discouraged . it is possible to eek more life out of your car.

[torrque]

update may 22nd 2017

did a couple more oil changes and checked the follower ( car has 275,000km now ) . Still shiny black and the magnetic drain plug I installed showed nothing but the usual 'fur" around the magnet. Next time I will grab a pic.
So far so good, so if you have had a follower failure don't be discouraged . it is possible to eek more life out of your car.

It is not a representative experience, more of an exception with hardens the rule. Once the cam is scored, it will eat through followers like crazy. Mine did... Plus the new cam has a different profile and better materials, it will not score as easily.
Anyway, good luck and I hope it stays that way .

[Theiceman]

I had a rev B cam which is hardened, perhaps you had original rev A ? I also dressed and polished the cam lobe before reassembly . Just information that may help , perhaps you are right and I just got lucky.

[Theiceman]

ok one more update.
As summer comes to a close here I did an oil change on the car before my son starts school and will be using it daily.

279000 km now and follower has very minimal wear. I decided to replace it since I had it all apart anyway , So that's about 15000 miles on the same follower and I'm totally happy with that . I could have left this one in for another 15000 miles but they are cheap so why not just replace it. Starting to see some wear but looks like it is spinning as it is supposed to.

[chubb]

Ya i had a similar cam follower failure to yours. Bottom of cam completely busted away and pump had signs of wear. I said screw it and didn't bother to replace the cams, just dropped a new follower in and pump. I think this happened when my car had about 150,000 kms on it. It now has almost 360,000kms and still going strong on the original motor, cams, etc.

Every 3-4 oil changes i check the cam follower and replace it since it's cheap to do so and an easy job.

I agree with you, just because this happens doesn't necessarily mean you need to replace the cams or your motor is toast.

glad it seems to be working out for you.

[Theiceman]

That's great news and I hope this is encouraging news to others


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[Theiceman]

update to an old thread .... due to a totally unrelated failure i had the timing cover off so decided to update this thread.. the following pic is after another 6 months and i had the timing cover off for another reason . This was about another 3K miles after my last cam follower



as you can see barely any wear at all , but of course after going to these lengths to check there is really no point in leaving them they are so cheap these days.

[ahotboy15]

I wonder if they disigned it because they knew retards would change it way too frequently...

[Sylvania A4]

^^ learn to spell. Looks like you’re the mentally handicapped one here...


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[Theiceman]

I wonder if they disigned it because they knew retards would change it way too frequently...

Really ?? And here was me thinking the retards don’t do anything and seize their engine !
What do I know. Im still running on the original engine


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[ahotboy15]

my car was a hand me down. i had the b5 too so dont hate the game. ya know the saying, if it aint broke dont fix it. i would also like to add, if your broke you cant fix it! I dont know which is the lesser of two evils...

[Theiceman]

my car was a hand me down. i had the b5 too so dont hate the game. ya know the saying, if it aint broke dont fix it. i would also like to add, if your broke you cant fix it! I dont know which is the lesser of two evils...

If it aint broke don’t fix it is an idiotic sentiment for idiots and those people usually get what they deserve.
A better saying for you might be don’t piss up wind.


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[ahotboy15]

ya know iceman, oil lubracted cars are gonna be a thing of the past with the tesla's etc. and autonomis vehicles so its only a matter of time before your wrenching will be obsolete and you will have to find a new hobby or stick to making deli sandwiches haha

[ahotboy15]

get wut they deserve? oh like a bent piston or a broken timing belt! boo hoo in the usa economy they usually just call AAA and are into new lease before ya know it!

If it aint broke don’t fix it is an idiotic sentiment for idiots and those people usually get what they deserve.
A better saying for you might be don’t piss up wind.


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