Considering B8.5 S4

[KnewJack]

Like the title says!

I'm on the fence between the S4 and a 2014 C63. Two different approaches to performance, I know. The Benz is attractive as I like how it drives, the brutal sound of it's N/A 6.2l engine which is now a pieces of history since it is no longer built. The S4 is also attractive in that it is a great handling car as well, I don't think the V6's sound is a good as the Benz 6.2l, but the SC whine sounds badass. I also like the idea of the S4 engines being easily available & fairly cheap if something should happen trying to extract more power from it. Those hand built AMG motors are pricey and will become pretty rare down the line. S4 also has a good amount of room for tuning, not a whole lot more you can do with an AMG N/A motor to make great gains over stock unless you spend some major coin.

I started out doing import drag racing in the late 90's. I did most of my own work and have built a few 4G63 motors (Mitsubishi 2.0l 4cyl) and some Honda B16s, B18s, K20's ect. My favorite tuner was my 1992 Eagle Talon AWD automatic I bought for $150 in 2002 with a blown head gasket. After years of tinkering mostly on my own with lots of trial and error I ended up with a car that put down 579awhp through a non-lockup auto which easily sucks out 30% hp and ran consistent mid 10.3x sec passes @ 130-135mph Car was full weight at 3460lbs and ran E85. I started experiment with E85 around 2005. Great stuff. I used to run twin Bosch 044 fuel pumps and Ford CNG (Compressed natural gas) 1600cc fuel injectors. With my tuning the car idled and drove like stock around town. Anyway sold the car and got into drag racing Motorcycles. Bought a 2008 Kawasaki ZX14 and ran a best 9.13@ 152mph, foot shifting (most guys run an air shifter).

So, I sold the bike last winter and now looking to get back into cars. Thought I'd try some German performance this time, I'm tired of the high strung 4cyl turbo car and need some luxury in my life! I was sold on the C63, but now just recently started considering the S4. I love the looks of it; kinda sleeper. I like that. My Talon was a sleeper, no one ever saw it coming. The C63 however, not so much. So my question is: how far can you take the S4 motor? I see the fastest 1/4mile times are in the mid 11s at around 119mph on race gas? I've run VP C16, CamII 110 in my talon before switching to E85. Can the S4 handle E85 on stock fuel setup? I know DI is a whole other setup too. Seems most of the tuning is done with flashes? I bought my wife a 2014 C250 and was very disappointed with the limitations on tuning it. Wasn't going crazy just thought it should be able to out run a Civic Si LOL!

So help me decide, I'm already leaning towards the S4 just want some good info from some guys with experience. Thanks for the space, and advice.

Oh, and great forum!

-Loren

[Midnight_Rider]

Wait to buy the new S4 with turbo, or make sure you buy one with the manual. I hate how the 7 speed dual clutch on this car acts on its own. I absolutely hate it so much.

If I have to do it again, I'd buy the S3 with manual (if available). This car is too heavy, too finicky, and too self sustaining = no fun.

[importraceram]

Given your history of tinkering and modding you should certainly consider this platform. The C63 comes out as a stock freak whereas the S4...not quite (not slow but certainly not mind blowing). This platform continues to evolve daily. The factory blower record is currently 11.2@122 and there's a good chance we could see 10s by the end of the year.

Can't go wrong either way. Good luck.

[Loe]

Low 11's over 122mph are possible with a few simple mods and fuel.

[MrFunk]

Wait to buy the new S4 with turbo, or make sure you buy one with the manual. I hate how the 7 speed dual clutch on this car acts on its own. I absolutely hate it so much.

If I have to do it again, I'd buy the S3 with manual (if available). This car is too heavy, too finicky, and too self sustaining = no fun.

Obviously being a MT guy, why did you buy an auto?!
S3 has no MT. The only MT you can get right now is in an S5, and that will come to an end very quick if not already.

[KnewJack]

Thanks for the replies. Midnight rider, Wow. Lol! You really do not like the DCT. I actually really liked it. Sure I wish it wouldn't upshift by itself in manual mode and would allow me to rev to the rev limiter, but I found the performance not too bad. I def prefer it to a torque converter slush box which is coming in the new S4. Also how is the car finicky? Inconsistent performance?

Loe, tell me about the TCU software. Does it allow more control over the DCT? quicker/firmer shifts? Also I see a TBB in your mods list, is that a throttle body upgrade?

[Loe]

on a B8.5, I would recommend it on any stage, and really a must for stage II or stage II with a dual-pulley set-up because of higher torque being generated. I do not know if the shifts are quicker/firmer (I actually don't think they are based on feel), but the main advantage is higher shift points (7,199rpm upshifts versus 6,300-6,400rpm on the stock DSG tune). That is the reason why many tuners can claim that a DSG file gives more HP, because our engines HP peak is around 6,800-6,900rpm at stage II levels of power.

The 034Motorsports TBB (throttle body boot) is just a silicon intake tube that leads to the throttle bottle; it get rid of the OEM intake resonator for slightly more S/C whine on a stock airbox, and it's larger in diameter.

[Dr GP]

Wait to buy the new S4 with turbo, or make sure you buy one with the manual. I hate how the 7 speed dual clutch on this car acts on its own. I absolutely hate it so much.

If I have to do it again, I'd buy the S3 with manual (if available). This car is too heavy, too finicky, and too self sustaining = no fun.

There are No MT S3s in the US. You do realize that there are ZERO NEW 2016 S4s 6MTs NOW available in the US. ALL 2016 6Mts have all been sold. No more to be built. All 2017 S4s will have a Tiptonic AT. MTs in performance oriented Audis are dead. Praying for resurrection!

[S4 00 2.7]

+1 get a new s4 instead

[b8audis4]

Would probably go with C63 if you are good with auto, and eating through rear tires, and making sure you have good snows. When I bought my S4, the facelift C63 was still really expensive used since they were essentially new, so I went S4, plus AWD.

[GTItoS4]

The C63 makes huge gains with intake, exhaust, and a tune... Like over 100whp. It's a beast. It's problem is traction.

[bhvrdr]

The C63 makes huge gains with intake, exhaust, and a tune... Like over 100whp. It's a beast. It's problem is traction.

This. I'd probably look at a C450 AMG 4matic until they decide to make their C63 with 4matic. I like that they gave AWD to the E63 but they all need it. The power is just so much more usable with AWD.

Mike

[jygesq]

There are No MT S3s in the US. You do realize that there are ZERO NEW 2016 S4s 6MTs NOW available in the US. ALL 2016 6Mts have all been sold. No more to be built. All 2017 S4s will have a Tiptonic AT. MTs in performance oriented Audis are dead. Praying for resurrection!

but you still can order 2017 S 5 with MT.

[S4 00 2.7]

The C63 makes huge gains with intake, exhaust, and a tune... Like over 100whp. It's a beast. It's problem is traction.

c63 > s4 all day.. even stock

but if you need AWD then you should get an e63.

[Dr GP]

but you still can order 2017 S 5 with MT.

Yes, but it is still a B8. I assume it will also have the SC engine rather than the bi turbos. Once the B9 S5 comes out, I presume the 6MT will be gone. BUT, C&D says the B9 A4 will eventually have a 6MT. Currently has DSG.

[KnewJack]

Didn't expect so many opinions against the S4 on an Audi forum. Interesting. The 2015 C63 is AWD by the way, but with a smaller V8 and twin turbos. Pretty pricey though. I was almost sold on the S4, but if current owners don't vote highly on it, then def something to think about. Thanks again for the replies.

[S4 00 2.7]

Didn't expect so many opinions against the S4 on an Audi forum. Interesting. The 2015 C63 is AWD by the way, but with a smaller V8 and twin turbos. Pretty pricey though. I was almost sold on the S4, but if current owners don't vote highly on it, then def something to think about. Thanks again for the replies.

c63 is not AWD. what makes you think so?

[roadawg]

In a vacuum, I'd take the C63 hands down. It's a different class of car, with more potential.

However, we all live in varying climates, with varying budgets and plans for modding.

If you live North where is gets very cold, not just snow and want to put the power down more effectively the S4 would be a better choice. Putting 500 WHP down on a rear wheel drive car is next to impossible when it gets below 30 degrees, or cold rain etc.

For me, I live where it is very cold 4 months out the year, and I like to have a little fun year round. I've had high HP RWD cars and it is basically useless from Dec - March, and when its raining.

I would consider your goals for mods, budget and where you live then the choice is clear.

If you live where it doesn't get below 50 degrees, have more dough to burn then no doubt the AMG is just a different class of car. But, like anything the devil is in the details.

^^^ the Merc is not AWD.

[chaos2984]

I personally like the s4 as the all around car. But would like to own a C63 NA version hell yes. The C63 has the raw power and being rwd it can be more fun. I would say the AMG is about the same tech as S4. I personally hate the new S4 interior. Its laid out all wrong and looks dumb. I will not buy one. Ill be keeping my current one and waiting to see what the B10 looks like. I buy a car for the total package not just one specific thing.

[KnewJack]

c63 is not AWD. what makes you think so?

Absolutely right. My mistake, I was thinking of the AMG C450.

[S4 00 2.7]

Absolutely right. My mistake, I was thinking of the AMG C450.

actually the c450 should be a direct competitor with the s4; it is a v6 +twin turbo + AWD and sounds awesome

you should check that out also.

[Victor Newman]

If you want my opinion, pick up a used 6-speed. That's where the fun is. I've had cars that make a lot of power, and they just get old as street cars. You're in the throttle for 2 seconds and you're done - already going way too fast. But going through the gears, heel-toe downshifting, and really feeling connected with the car during lighter, spirited driving never gets old. My mod priorities have completely changed. I think the S4 platform is great, and I just want to make it sharper and "alive." I was cross-shopping M3's. Just happened to like Audi style better and figured I could mod my way to where I wanted to be "driving experience wise."

[jygesq]

Yes, but it is still a B8. I assume it will also have the SC engine rather than the bi turbos. Once the B9 S5 comes out, I presume the 6MT will be gone. BUT, C&D says the B9 A4 will eventually have a 6MT. Currently has DSG.

nothing wrong with SC engine. no turbo lag either!

[Hamann]

After owning a 2007 RS4 and a 2009 M3, my next choice was the C63...but, I found more daily value in my current S4. But, if it was a weekend driver...and, I had the pockets...that C63 would be sitting in my garage.

[Hamann]

Didn't expect so many opinions against the S4 on an Audi forum. Interesting. The 2015 C63 is AWD by the way, but with a smaller V8 and twin turbos. Pretty pricey though. I was almost sold on the S4, but if current owners don't vote highly on it, then def something to think about. Thanks again for the replies.

Just different price points. An equivalent C63, with same miles...was about $15,000 more. I'd take the S4 for the money...and as a daily driver...unless you want to spend $45k for a nice pre-owned C63.

I vote very highly for the S4...considering price.

[KnewJack]

After doing more research the S4 is def the better value. This is mostly a car to tinker and have fun with. Trying to stay under 40k for those reasons. I can find a 2011-2013 C63 under 40K. My wife currently has a C250 and I don't think I want two C-classes of the same body style (W204) in my driveway even though they are mechanically worlds apart. I feel like I would just convince her to trade the 250 for a C63, but then I'd have to share, and she absolutely loves her 250. Getting in the C63 is very similar to my wife's car until you turn the key. The C400 is interesting since it is essential the same car as the 450 AMG Sport and they are identical power wise with just a flash and can be had below 45K for a 2015 example. 2014+ E63 is too pricey at this point (2 kids in college). If I did a C63 it would have to be of the W204 variety. Decisions decisions. Also considered the 335i, but that is my least favorite of the bunch.

[bokiboki]

If you want my opinion, pick up a used 6-speed. That's where the fun is. I've had cars that make a lot of power, and they just get old as street cars. You're in the throttle for 2 seconds and you're done - already going way too fast. But going through the gears, heel-toe downshifting, and really feeling connected with the car during lighter, spirited driving never gets old. My mod priorities have completely changed. I think the S4 platform is great, and I just want to make it sharper and "alive." I was cross-shopping M3's. Just happened to like Audi style better and figured I could mod my way to where I wanted to be "driving experience wise."

^Agree 100%

I love my Stage 2 2011 S4 with stick shift - awesome DD!

[Victor Newman]

My wife has a GLK350 with the AMG appearance package, and that thing has been rock solid. 0 issues and I think she's up to 90k miles now. Great vehicle and I would highly recommend it. While I stand by my opinion that Mercedes makes the most well-built luxury vehicles, I'm just not a Mercedes guy. I like how Audi does pretty much everything - even the things they don't do quite right - I like the way they screwed it up.

I think the thing that put me in an S4 over an M3 is the interior quality. Every S4 I looked at had an immaculate interior - like they were almost new, and I was looking at 2010's and '11's. Every M3 I looked at of a similar "vintage" actually looked old and worn out in places inside. I knew the M3 was a better car, but I liked the Audi style better and just got an idea in my head that they were higher fit and finish.

Then at random I rode by the local Audi dealer and asked if they knew of any black B8 6-speed S4's in NC or surrounding states. Unbelievably, they had taken one in on trade 2 hours earlier and hadn't processed the car yet. It was perfect for what I wanted. I bought it that afternoon and I still think it was just meant to be. That was my car and I was just unknowingly gravitating toward it. Getting a little misty over here, lol

[Loe]

After owning a 2007 RS4 and a 2009 M3, my next choice was the C63...but, I found more daily value in my current S4. But, if it was a weekend driver...and, I had the pockets...that C63 would be sitting in my garage.

similar, I thought I would be replacing my E90 M3 with another, however the S5 fits the bill for the long haul for me, there is enough satisfying power, the right about of stability, it's just an overall simple car to drive with the ease of how it goes about its business and deceptively quick to me.

[Midnight_Rider]

Obviously being a MT guy, why did you buy an auto?!
S3 has no MT. The only MT you can get right now is in an S5, and that will come to an end very quick if not already.

Being a MT guy all my life, I honestly thought the dual clutch was amazing on test drive, but once I drove it for a year, there are so much control that I miss from owning a MT. There are just so much you can do with MT with this car than the electronic dual clutch.

It frustrates me that this never hits 7k RPM, and it doesn't shift when I want it to, no matter how dangerous it might be. Coming from someone who's done Auto-x, road racing, and street racing all my life, these little finicky safety feature is dangerous, because it takes focus off of driver's concentration.

The part that I hate the most about the dual clutch is that, even on Dynamic mode with it on manual shift (shifter click to the right), it will shift on its own at 1st gear, then I click shift, then I'm in 3rd, instead of being at 2nd gear. Every time this happens, I want to burn this car down to the ground.

There, I said it. The choice to blow up the motor should be left up to the owner's, and not some overzealous ECU.

[Midnight_Rider]

Let me just say this though. On right RPM corner turn in and throttle, this thing scares the shit out of me. The torque and the grip is unbelievable. It's sublime, even.

If the engine revved up to 9k RPM, and it doesn't auto shift on its own, and with a little weight loss, engine blueprinting, Magnuson SC upgrade, standalone EMS, this car might be one of the best cars in the market even just with about 450whp. I mean, then you'd have to add lighter wheels, bigger front brakes (6 piston maybe), then coilovers, calibrated CFM exhaust without mufflers that vents directly out of the side of the rear bumper, maybe an aluminum or CF hood with vents in it, SC cooler (or just get rid of the whole thing and do a GT35 setup), and maybe the GPS upgrade for good measure.

I think that would be good. Maybe polyurethane bushings throughout.

Just those small things that can make this car amazing.

[S4 00 2.7]

After doing more research the S4 is def the better value. This is mostly a car to tinker and have fun with.

Trying to stay under 40k for those reasons.

I can find a 2011-2013 C63 under 40K. My wife currently has a C250 and I don't think I want two C-classes of the same body style (W204) in my driveway even though they are mechanically worlds apart. I feel like I would just convince her to trade the 250 for a C63, but then I'd have to share, and she absolutely loves her 250. Getting in the C63 is very similar to my wife's car until you turn the key. The C400 is interesting since it is essential the same car as the 450 AMG Sport and they are identical power wise with just a flash and can be had below 45K for a 2015 example. 2014+ E63 is too pricey at this point (2 kids in college). If I did a C63 it would have to be of the W204 variety. Decisions decisions. Also considered the 335i, but that is my least favorite of the bunch.

no contest right there. new AMG is big coin.

[Vanimal]

I thought about trading my S5 in for a w204 C63. Until I seen the interior, & I was HEAVILY let down. Aside from the slightly better seats it felt literally like a regular C300 or C class interior. Lots of plastic, very lackluster dash and central controls. My B8 S5 is leaps and bounds better, feels premium, didn't get that from the w204 c63 which shocked me as that car is not cheap new. Again talking total package here. Obviously S4 will have the same interior. This is the 08-11 years, the 2012 I think has a slight interior upgrade which helps A LOT, doesn't look like as ancient on the center control area.

I've owned fast cars in my day, but I'm now at the age I prefer "total package" over fastest straight line performance. I think the styling of C63 is cool, its aggressive compared to the subtle lines of a S4/S5. That said, the C63 is built off a C-class which are a dime a dozen on the road. I don't think I'd get anywhere near as many compliments from people on the C63 compared to my S5. Not that I really care, you buy a C63 for that beautiful beast of a 6.3L motor. But funny thing I sometimes "think" I see a w204 c63 from a distance while driving but turns out to just be a newer c class lol.

I still am interested in the c63 because I'm a fan of the powerful V8's that are a dying breed now. But I would have to at LEAST get the 2012 which I believe has some interior changes to update it a bit making it look 100 times better.

Now where the c63 shines is its motor and performance, it's actually from research a pretty good DD compared to something like a M3. I live in PA and I like the AWD since I drive my S5 year round. Plowed through everything without a sweat on all season tires didn't even have winter tires.

I still like the C63, but after being spoiled by my S5's interior is need at least the 2012 C63. I'm really hoping the RS5's come down a bit in 1-2 years. I would be all over a RS5 over a C63. Again, I like "total package".

I still get in my S5 and think, man this is a nice interior. Awesome seats as well. But if you are looking at a B8.5 S4 there's one thing it won't be able to do the C63 does. Produce one of the BEST sounding V8 engines on the market in the sport luxury class. That 6.3L is godly sounding! Sounds unreal even with stock exhaust.


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[Hamann]

^^ I LOVE the C63 for a lot of reasons, but my S4 is very well-designed, inside and out. It's a very clean appearance...simple, yet aggressive.

I thought my RS4 sounded good with the custom exhaust...it gave me chills every single morning...but, yeah, agree with the sound of the C63. I'd almost buy it ONLY for that reason.

[KnewJack]

Another contender. I just drove a 2013 S6. Wow! Great torque and sounds great, I like the exhaust note much better than the S4. Much roomier too. The S4 and S6 seem to run similar times once tuned though the S6 can run close to 120 traps stage 2 on 93 or 100 from what I've heard. Opinions?

[wootwoot]

Opinions?

Exhaust note = rice. Performance is more important.

[KashOutS4]

I would vote C63 but the S4 has the AWD capability for those ugly snow days. Either way can't go wrong.

[KnewJack]

Exhaust note = rice. Performance is more important.

How is a V8 exhaust note through a factory exhaust rice? Please elaborate. The performance of the two with mods is similar. However, stock for stock the S6 is a full second quicker and almost 10mph faster in the 1/4.

I would vote C63 but the S4 has the AWD capability for those ugly snow days. Either way can't go wrong.

I'm more so comparing the S6 and S4 now. I've eliminated the C63.

[rjd598]

not trying to thread jack, but i'm in a somewhat similar position. what is everyone's opinion on b8.5 vs b9? i'm surprised some advised to get the b9 since it seems there's a lot of love for the b8 in general. new to the audi world btw, but really want to switch things up and get into an s4 by the end of the year.

[S4 00 2.7]

^^ that is a total thread jack. why do people do that? his needs are not yours. smh

one vote for S6