Paint condition on a CPO - Do I have grounds for a complaint?

[letterk]

Bought my '13 S4 as CPO a month ago. The last couple weeks my mobile car wash guy has noticed the paint becoming progressively worse. Enough so that he called me outside this past weekend and told me how lousy the paint has become. He didn't want to even try to fix it. It's not just wear, but looks like someone took a buffer to it and didn't have a clue what they were doing. The photos below don't show nearly how bad it is. Our hunch is that the dealer knew how bad it was but covered it up with something that wore off in a couple weeks. He said it's just going to keep getting worse and suggested I turn in a complaint with the dealer. I talked to AoA and they told me to bring it back to the dealer for warranty repair, but is seemed like she just wanted to get me off the phone. I don't see how paint abuse would fall under warranty. I have paint correction schedule for this weekend, but at this point I'm wondering if Audi would pay for it. I've purchased CPO cars before and I've never seen paint like this. Am I overreacting? Is this a problem Audi needs to fix for me?

[Tod]

Looks like a crap detail judge. My paint is weirdly soft. Swirls by looking at it. Worst they say is no so I'd call them

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[B8Addict]

Ha, mine was in similar condition when I purchased my car CPO nearly 3 years ago. Thankfully I detail on the side so it wasn't a problem for me but that is a TERRIBLE job.

[chaos2984]

I would try. I got lot rot water marks corrected on mine but mine was new. It doesn't hurt to atleast try

[waxxonMTL]

your overeacting AF... it's just a bad detail done by the dealer which I heard thousand of times already.. just get it done by a real detailer and end of story... no need to talk to AoA...

[Antekaudi]

The shown damage seems to be from a lousy detail job.

This can be corrected for around $500+ through a reputable detailer.

However, keep in mind that layer of the clear coat has been removed and may already be thin in some areas which could cause premature clear coat failure in the future.

I would strongly recommend to take it to a detailer who can use a paint gauge to measure the paint in various spots and compare it to another same make/model car on the lot.

Thanks

[Works2shoot]

My car came like that from the dealer. My detailer measured the paint and fixed it. That beats when I made the mistake of buying a demo Volvo before the S4. Apparently the "detailers" had removed 2/3 of clear coat.

[Vanimal]

Some new cars are detailed wrong at the dealer. I detailed years ago when I was 18 at a corvette dealer. Sometimes they have kids basically buffing cars.

Hell Ferrari's come with hollogram's right from the factory because the people buffing them have no idea what they doing usually. Some people take their new car RIGHT from the dealer to get it done correctly.

Get it paint corrected, it's a used car at the end of the day. The dealer did a shitty buff job on my Deep Sea Blue S5 when I got it. Drove through the winter & than had a minor correction done. Did wonders like glass now.

I don't know how knowledgable your mobile wash guy is but you may only need a multi stage polish not correction, which is only a few hours of work. It's hard to tell from pictures.

You don't wash the car yourself? I cringe at the fact someone else washing my car lol. What is the mobile car wash guy using to wash your car?


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[Dr GP]

You got the infamous no cost dealer swirl application option. All too often the dealers actually screw up the paint condition with their less than optimal dealer prep. Suck it up. Take it to someone who knows how to do it correctly. Do you really want to take it back to the same dealer who f'd it up in the first place?

[Vanimal]

You got the infamous no cost dealer swirl application option. All too often the dealers actually screw up the paint condition with their less than optimal dealer prep. Suck it up. Take it to someone who knows how to do it correctly. Do you really want to take it back to the same dealer who f'd it up in the first place?

Ditto exactly what I did.


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[NY_Quattro]

The short answer is no, I don't think you have grounds for a complaint. Dealers don't understand nor care about proper paint maintenance. Trying to argue it with them will most likely get you nowhere. Seems like you already have a proper detail lined up, but that paint looks fixable with a good quality detail.

[The Fat Kid]

You got the infamous no cost dealer swirl application option. All too often the dealers actually screw up the paint condition with their less than optimal dealer prep. Suck it up. Take it to someone who knows how to do it correctly. Do you really want to take it back to the same dealer who f'd it up in the first place?

^This. My brand-new S4 came with free swirl/buff marks, and I would NOT send it back to the dealer for paint correction. I literally drove my car from the dealer to the detailer, and the paint looked perfect when he was done.

I would try to get Audi to cover the cost of paint correction done by a detailer of your choice. What is the other option, make them take the car back?

[letterk]

Update on this. I decided to just pay to get the paint corrected because I didn't want to deal with this dealer anymore. Found a local guy that does fantastic work. Optimum Gloss-Coat also applied. I think it looks amazing. Photos, as required...









HOWEVER. Guess what was found in the process. This car has been repaired. The guy that did the paint correction said he saw it immediately. As you can see below, it looks like a horrible repair job. The theory is bondo was used. I still need to check with a magnet. He said the rear passenger door was damaged and repaired and that, and the rear quarter panel were repainted. Before he fixed it, he said you could see a cross-hatch pattern that is an easy tell of a hand applied paint. He said the paint job was good, but the repair on the door isn't. The carfax is clean, so the previous owner probably paid for a mobile repair. I, of course, specifically asked if it had any repairs and they said no. And of course, the CPO inspection says nothing about it. But there is no way they didn't know this car was repaired.

I've bought CPO cars before and have always had the exact opposite. The GMC dealer emailed me 50+ photos and called out every single little scratch. The Infiniti dealer walked me around the car and pointed out every little flaw. I'm sure I shouldn't be surprised an Audi dealer would do this, but I am. The paint correction guy said he sees this occasionally and says I can certainly get Audi to fix it correctly and to cough up something extra. But that means I have to deal with them again. Ugh.

[Antekaudi]

Based on the picture your detailer is right. You can see sand paper marks under the coat of paint.

So his theory is most likely right, there was a repair with bondo done on the rear doors.

You live in a warm climate so you might be ok in the long run, however if you were on the east coast it give you issues such as rust etc...

[pdqgp]

HOWEVER. Guess what was found in the process. This car has been repaired. The guy that did the paint correction said he saw it immediately. As you can see below, it looks like a horrible repair job. The theory is bondo was used. I still need to check with a magnet. He said the rear passenger door was damaged and repaired and that, and the rear quarter panel were repainted. Before he fixed it, he said you could see a cross-hatch pattern that is an easy tell of a hand applied paint. He said the paint job was good, but the repair on the door isn't. The carfax is clean, so the previous owner probably paid for a mobile repair. I, of course, specifically asked if it had any repairs and they said no. And of course, the CPO inspection says nothing about it. But there is no way they didn't know this car was repaired.

I've bought CPO cars before and have always had the exact opposite. The GMC dealer emailed me 50+ photos and called out every single little scratch. The Infiniti dealer walked me around the car and pointed out every little flaw. I'm sure I shouldn't be surprised an Audi dealer would do this, but I am. The paint correction guy said he sees this occasionally and says I can certainly get Audi to fix it correctly and to cough up something extra. But that means I have to deal with them again. Ugh.

Much needed improvement. What you were seeing was just horrible technique with a rotary buffer by whoever prepped / cleaned the car for the dealer. Doubt it was the body shop when the car was repaired as they typically know how to handle a rotary and not introduce holograms like that.

In terms of the repair, chances are the dealer who sold it to you knew. It's pretty obvious that the work was done and a simple paint gauge would have showed them if the car was resprayed anywhere. No doubt when taking it in on trade if they suspected it was repaired they would gauge the rest of the car.

When buying used, you typically buy "as is" with the balance of warranty so it becomes a buyer beware issue.

[letterk]

I understand it's buyer beware, and would absolutely expect a used car dealer to pull something like this. I would not expect a luxury dealership to do the same and risk losing a customer over something so sketchy. I also don't think Audi wants a car like this to represent what a CPO should be. I'm calling AoA to update my complaint with this new information. Also calling the GM. My wife is considering the Q7 for her next, but not at this dealer, that's for sure.

[4wheelpilot]

I understand it's buyer beware, and would absolutely expect a used car dealer to pull something like this. I would not expect a luxury dealership to do the same and risk losing a customer over something so sketchy. I also don't think Audi wants a car like this to represent what a CPO should be. I'm calling AoA to update my complaint with this new information. Also calling the GM. My wife is considering the Q7 for her next, but not at this dealer, that's for sure.

I am not an attorney but a BIG part of this problem is "non disclosure".
The examples given about GMC and Infiniti illustrate the professional way to sell pre owned cars.
Price the car according to any significant issues like bodywork (and to a lesser extent small issues like chips, scratches, unusaul wear, etc.) then clearly show these defects to the prospective buyer.
Let the buyer decide what is best for them based on the condition of the car.

When I was looking to buy a CPO, I asked about minor and major issues.
At one point the salesman made a comment that their car was pre owned and I shouldn't expect perfect.
But that was never my point! I wanted to know about any defects so I could decide if the car was right for me.

btw, I heard of a case where a BMW dealer sold a customer a CPO BMW.
The owner found out, by happenstance, that the car had a door panel repaired.
He sued BMW for non disclosure and was awarded more than 6 figures!
The award was based not on the degree of damage but on the fact that BMW did not inform him of the repairs.

Good luck.

[letterk]

I am not an attorney but a BIG part of this problem is "non disclosure".
The examples given about GMC and Infiniti illustrate the professional way to sell pre owned cars.
Price the car according to any significant issues like bodywork (and to a lesser extent small issues like chips, scratches, unusaul wear, etc.) then clearly show these defects to the prospective buyer.
Let the buyer decide what is best for them based on the condition of the car.

When I was looking to buy a CPO, I asked about minor and major issues.
At one point the salesman made a comment that their car was pre owned and I shouldn't expect perfect.
But that was never my point! I wanted to know about any defects so I could decide if the car was right for me.

btw, I heard of a case where a BMW dealer sold a customer a CPO BMW.
The owner found out, by happenstance, that the car had a door panel repaired.
He sued BMW for non disclosure and was awarded more than 6 figures!
The award was based not on the degree of damage but on the fact that BMW did not inform him of the repairs.

Good luck.

Yes, exactly. If you know, you should have to disclose. Just like when you sell a house. The value of an asset shouldn't be based on what you can hide. It should be based on the condition of the asset. And it's really not about the money for me. I could easily pay to have it fixed, buy another, etc... But I am very upset about the non disclosure (I like your term). And I really dislike overpaying for something. Guess overall just shocked a dealer would act so unprofessionally.

[4wheelpilot]

Yes, exactly. If you know, you should have to disclose. Just like when you sell a house. The value of an asset shouldn't be based on what you can hide. It should be based on the condition of the asset. And it's really not about the money for me. I could easily pay to have it fixed, buy another, etc... But I am very upset about the non disclosure (I like your term). And I really dislike overpaying for something. Guess overall just shocked a dealer would act so unprofessionally.

Based on your post, not only did "somebody at the dealership" know, but they chose to HIDE the paint damage.
That's inexcusable.

[letterk]

Based on your post, not only did "somebody at the dealership" know, but they chose to HIDE the paint damage.
That's inexcusable.

Well, AoA seemed horrified. She dug up the GM's direct number for me. The dealer actually has pretty good reviews online, so I'm going to talk to the GM and see what can be done.

[Senseless]

I would not expect a dealer to cheerfully point out a previous accident, if he can hide behind a "clean Carfax" designation like it's absolution. Are there disclosure requirements for a CPO?

[4wheelpilot]

I would not expect a dealer to cheerfully point out a previous accident, if he can hide behind a "clean Carfax" designation like it's absolution. Are there disclosure requirements for a CPO?

I wouldn't require or expect the salesman to be cheerful about it ;)
Disclosure requirements?
From AoA? Is it worth risking their (AoA's) reputation?
So imho, I would absolutely expect AoA to "require" dealers to fully disclose issues (even before the TDI scandal they now have to fix).
Dealerships seem to have quite a bit of autonomy. And if they have few and minor transgressions, maybe AoA can justify "looking the other way'.
But if it can be proven that the dealership blatantly hid the defect (especially in a CPO that has 300 checkpoints) this should outrage Aoa as it may cross over to a legal matter.
See the example I gave of a BMW CPO sale.

[pdqgp]

Yes, exactly. If you know, you should have to disclose. Just like when you sell a house. The value of an asset shouldn't be based on what you can hide. It should be based on the condition of the asset. And it's really not about the money for me. I could easily pay to have it fixed, buy another, etc... But I am very upset about the non disclosure (I like your term). And I really dislike overpaying for something. Guess overall just shocked a dealer would act so unprofessionally.

Laws will vary by state but in the end, no, dealers nor individuals are not required to disclose such damage. The amount isn't nearly high enough.

[letterk]

Some interesting info found here. Seems there is some precedence to a claim on my part.

[grovlet]

Well - I hope this works out for you in the long run - since it's not terrible and you've been able to have it detailed out - and I suspect don't want out of the car - maybe ask the dealer for free "AudiCare" Service for a period of time - as I doubt they would refund a portion of the money - they'll probably lean towards wanting to take the car back and void the transaction..... But they may be open to free future repairs in order to make you whole.

Good luck with this one!!

[letterk]

Got a nice response from the GM first thing this morning. Of course, he needs to talk to staff and review information, but said he will contact me by tomorrow at the latest.