OBD2 codes

[TheFugitive]

I recently(few months back) purchased a 2010 A4 Avant. Intermittently the car has rough idle, usually a few minutes after it has been started. At first I thought it was temperature related, it was february when I bought it. Now that it's warmed up outside I see no correlation to temperature, external or engine. whenever the "rough idle" symptoms occur, It is always slowing to a stop(engine is maybe 1400 rpms or less) or at a stop(1000-800 rpm). When this happens I will give a little gas and most of the time it will work itself out, If it doesn't I will kill the engine(if i'm in a safe place to do so) and wait a few minutes. Sometimes the waiting game works, sometimes it needs to get up in rpms.

I scanned the car and got the codes below. And after Googling the codes I am seeing major timing issues. Most of the other engines that have the P0016 code have little to no ability to run at all, usually a timing idler or out of time. My car has only slight intermittent problems.

I will be taking it to audi soon to have them look at it, but I wanted some input from all of you as to what may be causing it or what you suggest I check or do.

I also am unsure of some of the non OBD2 codes(comments in italic), these may be VAG specific?


OBD2 - confirmed:
P0016 - Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 1 Sensor A

OBD2 - pending:
P0016 - Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 1 Sensor A

OBD2 - pending:
P052A - Cold Start "A" Camshaft Position Timing Over-Advanced Bank 1

OBD2 - permanent:
P0016 - Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 1 Sensor A

Engine:
P292C - Not sure what this is

Engine:
P1000 - Injector Cylinder 9 (N299), Circuit Malfunction - I assume one of the Injectors is going?

Radio:
02635 - Tuner not enabled / activated - No sirus XM radio


Obtained with Carista 3.0 beta-12 for Android.

[pierreb]

Start shopping for a used cyl head that includes cams.

[pierreb]

My thought is you have damaged cams and/or guides.

No CEL? No EPC? How many miles on the car? If under 120k, injectors should be covered. Have Audi test continuity on the camshaft position sensor.

[TheFugitive]

My thought is you have damaged cams and/or guides.

No CEL? No EPC? How many miles on the car? If under 120k, injectors should be covered. Have Audi test continuity on the camshaft position sensor.

Yes I do have a check engine light. Had EPC fault for about a day and it went away. 84k miles.

[pierreb]

You could try a carbon clean if the continuity test is fine. Mine was intermittent. I think you need a new head though. Sorry.

[TheFugitive]

Start shopping for a used cyl head that includes cams.

like these?:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-12-AUDI-A...BV07Qv&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/1620396...&ul_noapp=true

[TheFugitive]

You could try a carbon clean if the continuity test is fine. Mine was intermittent. I think you need a new head though. Sorry.

Carbon clean was exactly what I thought early on, Ive read up on Dans guide in the DIY section. However the codes make me think its worse than just that. I appreciate your honesty.

[o1turbo30v]

Crankshaft to cam shaft correlation codes means the the timing chain tensioner failed and the chain skipped a tooth or two. You need a new/new to you head, timing chain, and tensioner....

[pierreb]

Yep, that's my thought as well.

I got my new-to-me head with cams included and only 30k miles on it for $650 shipped.

Like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-11-12-13-...O/391441128489

That's not all you'll need though. If indeed the tensioner failed you'll also want new tensioner, chain, chain guides and cover.

[TheFugitive]

Update, I scanned again last night and the two below went away:

P052A - Cold Start "A" Camshaft Position Timing Over-Advanced Bank 1
P292C

This is the scan from last night:

OBD2 - confirmed:
P0016 - Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 1 Sensor A

OBD2 - permanent:
P0016 - Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 1 Sensor A

Engine:
P1000 - Injector Cylinder 9 (N299), Circuit Malfunction

Radio:
02635 - Tuner not enabled / activated

Radio:
03157 - Function Limitation because of Communication Failure

[TheFugitive]

You could try a carbon clean if the continuity test is fine. Mine was intermittent. I think you need a new head though. Sorry.

Crankshaft to cam shaft correlation codes means the the timing chain tensioner failed and the chain skipped a tooth or two. You need a new/new to you head, timing chain, and tensioner....

Audi thinks its the camshaft. Was that the reason you guys needed a complete new/new to you head? or was it something else?

[TheFugitive]

Update: $2000 later audi dealer replaced the intake camshaft. Picked up last night. This morning the symptoms returned.
What obligations are the dealer under to fix the issue?
Im feeling like I just lit a bunch of money on fire.

[treginginco]

I would demand a refund of the money you laid out and find another dealership or independent Audi shop to get it fixed.

- - - Updated - - -

And.... If you paid with a credit card, call the company and dispute the charge

[pierreb]

Well that's not good. I would've used the labor to just throw a used head on there instead. At least the new intake cam can be reused.

[Allowencer]

With all of those codes, you prolly jumped timing as the timing tensioner has failed. That's sad that the dealer didn't validate this (at least it doesn't sound like they did). I would call them up and ask "do you guys validate physical can timing?" Bring up to them the known issue with the timing tensioner.

[TheFugitive]

With all of those codes, you prolly jumped timing as the timing tensioner has failed. That's sad that the dealer didn't validate this (at least it doesn't sound like they did). I would call them up and ask "do you guys validate physical can timing?" Bring up to them the known issue with the timing tensioner.

I mentioned similar reports of tensioner failure to him, He later came back saying camshaft adjuster. Also that that it was part of the cam shaft and the whole thing had to be replaced($800 for that part).

[TheFugitive]

Well that's not good. I would've used the labor to just throw a used head on there instead. At least the new intake cam can be reused.

I also mentioned to him needing the whole head replaced, he kinda scoffed at that and asked why. I didn't have a reason to give.

Is the reason for replacing the whole head that is warped or cracked?

[pierreb]

The reason in my view is that your tensioner caused an issue with timing and damaged the valve train. Changing one camshaft was only one possibility. There are guides, springs, valves and another cam in there to consider. A known good head + Chain job and you would've been set. Have you read the codes since the 'repair' ?

[Allowencer]

If the clutch adjuster on the intake cam is bad, that can cause that code too. However, with your car being a 2010, has mileage, you really need to validate that the cam timing tensioner didn't fail and that physical timing is correct. This is a known issue. Only way to know for sure is to remove the upper and lower timing covers to verify.

[pierreb]

^^^what he said.

[TheFugitive]

OK It sounds like replacing with a known good head is cheaper than investigating and replacing all of the other components of the head.
However, if you buy a used head you can run the risk of not getting a good working head. Then you would be out labor and have to return the head. Do you agree?

Here are codes read after repair:

OBD2 - confirmed:
P0137 - O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage Bank 1 Sensor 2

OBD2 - pending:
P2096 - Post Catalyst Fuel Trim System Too Lean Bank 1

OBD2 - pending:
P2196 - O2 Sensor Signal Biased/Stuck Rich Bank 1 Sensor 1

OBD2 - pending:
P0137 - O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage Bank 1 Sensor 2

OBD2 - permanent:
P0016 - Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 1 Sensor A

OBD2 - permanent:
P0137 - O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage Bank 1 Sensor 2

[TheFugitive]

Update: I have gotten the car back from my audi dealer, and the car is really fixed this time(knock on wood) for no additional charge.

The service report says a valve was bad.

Thank you everyone for your help on this issue!

[Allowencer]

"bad valve"?? Doesn't seem right.

Can you take a pic of the service report and share what they replaced? I'm curious...

[TheFugitive]

Yeah ill snap a pic tonight

[Allowencer]

Friendly reminder as I'm curious

[TheFugitive]

Sorry for the delay

[S4'ed]

Sounds like a bad variable timing adjustment valve, on the front sprocket of the intake camshaft? What replacement part number is listed on the invoice?

[TheFugitive]

I don't think they listed one.