B5 Ko4 upgrade questions

[Still Lost]

Since this section is full of great information I figured I'd try to add to it w/ my stupidity and others intelligence. Plus there are less people who look in here to flame me for not knowing this stuff.

I currently have a 99 A4 1.8t which has the AWE exhaust and GIAC chip and Bailey DV LW fylwheel, and upgraded clutch.

I am seriously thinking about upgrading to a Ko4 ... I know someone will say go GT28 or something but I'm not looking for a ton of power I want more power that is still reliable for day to day driving and not a hog on gas. So here starts the questions:

> I know I'll need the Ko4 turbo but what is the difference btwn the ko4/10 and ko4/15 and which one would be best for my application?

> Since my car is chipped now do i have to get a new chip or ecu and can I sell my current chip or can I just have it "re-flashed" for the Ko4 information?

> Also what is all this talk about 5-bar and this program and that program..can someone discfyer(sp?) all the information for me?

> Do I need new and bigger injectors and if so what size/kind/type?

> Do I need to modify my exhaust/mani or anything else?

> Would it be a good idea to go to a fmic and if so what is the best way to go about it...get a pre-built unit or just a core and end tanks and have the pipes done at a shop?

[BranCKY3]

You need the k04-015. You can either get the 5bar Fuel pressure regulator and run the regular file, or if you want to run the PC-16 file (stronger) then you will need new injectors and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. You might need a FMIC but I think that you can survive thru winter without one.

Your best bet is to call the GIAC rep in your area for all the specific details.

[tkarwin]

BranCKY3, How is your k04 setup working on your 2001. I didn't think that K04s and 01s went together that well. I am also an 01 considering a k04 upgrade. Any info would be great. I have been reading a lot in that thread about the throttle closing and I am very afraid to attempt the upgrade.

[bitterchild]

the 01 GIAC k04 file just has a built in safety based on audi/motronic's own safety. Basically the throttle will close when the MAF signal shows too much airflow. The file should work fine unless you start making modifications from the setup it was written for.

[bewareb5s4]

I heard the turbos needed for the S4 were the K04-25 (right side) and K04-26 (left side).....

I see a lot of K04-15s for sale.


Can someone explain the difference?

thanks

[bitterchild]

difference is the compressor housing castings. k04-001 are for tranverse 1.8ts, k04-015 are for longitudinal 1.8ts, 25 and 26 are for the respective sides of the 2.7t.

[BlackBirdSR71]

The FrankenTurbo would be a much better option IMHO. More efficient than a K04-015 at all boost levels and is capable of running 20PSI to redline Of course you can run it at a lower boost level than that if you wish....and still get the improved efficiency

Price from Slappy is sweet as well ( $1,099 )...don't forget that it includes a High Flow exhaust manifold, custom sized silicone inlet pipe, and your choice of a 3" MAF housing or a upgraded DV.

[Seerlah]

Seen any good necro-bumps lately?

[vtraudt]

I came from a K03 with noname (?) stage 2 chip. 1998 AEB.
Next was downpipe and Miltek cut back and Carbonio intake.
K03 went out.
Turboconcepts built me a nice hybrid (slightly larger than K04 compressor, clipped and smoothed K03 hot side) for little extra money over just rebuilding my K03.
FMIC went in and Southbend Stage 3 clutch.
Drove this setup for quite some time. Very nice midrange (18.5 psi at 4k).
Had 165 g/sec MAF.
Then put injectors (31 lb), AFPR (set to 2.9 bar) and GIAC PC16.
Midrange still the same, but MUCH livelier from 4k up.
Now have 180 g/sec (the word is a K04-015 is running 170 ish), and therefore close to the limit of the MAF.

Next is a K04-015 based "K04max" with RS6 compressor, K04-2x turbine.
I will first try the PC16 on a larger MAF housing (say 1.3x the area of stock) and 1.3x more flow (going from 2.9 bar to 5 bar (=1.72, square root = 1.31), and a MBC parallel (for safety, to limit boost and spikes).

Need to find out how to convert the VAGcom MAF voltage reading into g/sec (just multiply by the housing area increase factor of 1.3?).

Is your 99 a DBW ECU (with MAP)? You may have more tune choices. There is NOTHING for the AEB (nDBW)
If you buy a new turbo anyway, AND if good tunes are out there for your engine/ECU, then Slappy at Frankenturbo is your man! Can't beat the bang for the buck!

[REASON]

Seen any good necro-bumps lately?

I "LOL'd"

[rodhotter]

even on a FWD as my 01 jetta a ko-4 001 makea a little more hp and much more torque, i had the apr program for it 3" downpipe to 2.5 cat bk, carbino real cold air, gutted maf forge sidemount and the typical hose upgrades, i hit 25 lb in 3rd pulling hard, a nice daily power band, it was in for 100xxx +miles and still fine when i traded for my TT, thank god for QUAIFE because FWD sux otherwise!!

[fachini24]

So I'm thinking about buying the K04 and PC-16 package from AWE, is it worth it for a daily driver or is that too much $$ to spend? I will also be doing test pipe, FMIC, borla 2.5" exhaust and forge DV... with all that how much HP should I see and will it be ok on stock internals? Kit also comes with chip too

[vtraudt]

My son finished the upgrade on his 99 Passat AEB. Giac PC16, injectors, 3 bar FPR, Forge 007, 3" DP, FMIC, ebay manifold, custom build K03/K04 from TurboConcepts.

I did a quick data log run (90 deg C out there) and was VERY impressed (192 g/sec on the MAF), which I 'interpret' as 240 cHP. I am pretty sure we are 'hitting' the limit of MAF. Maybe that explains a 'hickup' I have noticed in the pulls (see below) at 5-6k rpm (injector timing drops right away; all occured past 180 g/sec MAF but at different RPM).

My other hybrid (similar setup, no manifild, but cat back and Carbonio) runs 185 g/sec.
Plain Jane K04-015 run in the mid 170 g/sec (I was told; but never saw numbers).

I think its a good bang for the buck setup, VERY driveable, decent power and all 'factory safeties' in place.

[fachini24]

Well I'm planning on getting everything brand new and I see there web site claims 247 with PC16 package, so with fmic, header, dp, cai, exhaust I should see more right?

[vtraudt]

I have everything you list (plus a turbo that flows more than a normal K04) and I estimate (based on 192 g/sec MAF) 240 HP.
And I am pretty sure I smack into the MAF limit already.

I don't see ANY possibility how a PC16 can extract more HP given the 5V limitation of the MAF.
Since I clearly hit that limit, I will now experiment with VR6 housing (36% larger cross section) and correspondingly increased fuel pressure (1.36x1.36=1.85; in my case about 5-6bar).

BTW: I have not seen any CAI that isn't replacing the true (stock) CAI and convert it into a power robbing HAI (check out all those cone filters the kids throw into the engine bay next to turbo. Its a sad joke to see that). The Carbonio (came with the car) I have on one of my 1.8T is at least trying to NOT make it worse than the stock (heat shield, sealed box, cold air coming in from stock location).

[fachini24]

Well thanks for the info man. I knw a lot of ppl say u can get a used system for cheaper but I like the thought and pice of mind brand new equipment so ill stick with the awe kit. To me seems like a good investment since I don't feel like changing internals and I'm not planning on making big HP in the near future. So the HP listed on thw awe web site is not true? And I will also most likely have to put a better clutch also right? Still a bit new to the audi turbo scene but loving my audi. And before anything happens the engine will get an overhaul, all gaskets, oil pump, timing belt, water pump, thermostat... I'm very excited to get this car to see some decent HP. Now, is the frankenturbo setup better and cheaper or should I stick with the awe K04 setup?

[A4edwin]

^^^ +1 i'm wondering the same thing just got a 1.8t passat want more power but i don't want to go crazy. been hearing alot about these franken turbo's but haven't seen any dyno #'s

[Seerlah]

You need to search harder

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc....1.dDi-cdUMdis

[Nateness]

I've observed ~240 g/s on my Frankenturbo F21. You will need to use the larger TT225 MAF that comes with his kit. I'm running an 034 tune on the ME7 ECU on my 2001 A4. The compressor map for the F21 shows peak flow of ~34 lb/min, putting this K04 hybrid just slightly below a GTRS eliminator in terms of peak power potential.

See the F21 thread in the B5 section for my old dyno numbers. ~235/265 AWHP/AWTQ @ 20 PSI and 91 octane.

[fachini24]

well as i would love to see those numbers on my audi, i wont be able to. some chick rearended it and totaled my car whilest it was unoccupied and parked off street.... soooo now i have a 328i... missing the audi quite badly now :/

[vtraudt]

I've observed ~240 g/s on my Frankenturbo F21. You will need to use the larger TT225 MAF that comes with his kit.

The TT225 MAF does not fit my 1.8T AEB. The TT225 and V6 MAF HOUSING don't seem to accept the stock AEB SENSOR (different orientation of the mounting bolts).

Only 'ghetto fix' possible to fit a larger MAF housing on an 1.8T AEB?

[Nateness]

You will need a tune that allows for a MAF sensor that fits into the TT225 housing. You won't be able to simply switch housings and retain a tune for the original MAF sensor/housing.