Upgrading TT225

[vtraudt]

I consider buying a 2001 TT225 Quattro manual (likely AMU narrow band).
Lots of 1.8T longitudinal experience, little transverse:

Ideas for fun daily (based on what we do on longi engines):
- high flow head (I have a complete new AEB head (longi); no idea if it can be used on transverse)
- high flow intake (most certainly the big port AEB intakes I have won't work on AMU, but likely there are high flow versions for that; if so: which?)
- billet fast spool turbo (plenty of those running on longi setups). (No desire for the common slow spool 2871 and elim kits)
- high flow exhaust manifold
- upgraded rods

Other:
- larger MAF (what is commonly used: transverse, we use S4 typically)
- injectors original (non modified) Bosch EV14 in 550 or 630cc. Is TT using short or long injectors?
- 3 or 4 bar MAP
- custom tune
- FMIC
- DP
- CAT back
- clutch

What is normally being done?

[Racin2redline]

larger maf is not needed. I highly recommend a wideband swap if your doing more than just a stg 1 tune

yes you can use the aeb head, might gain some power with even the stock turbo

downpipe is highly beneficial the stock one chokes the crap out of the turbo at mid and high rpms

yes you will probably need rods if you want to run aggressive timing/boost even on pump gas with full bolt on

intercooler definitely helps keep everything consistent. the stock dual setup heatsoaks fast just like the 2.7T

I'm running 630cc with a DW65v on e85 custom tuned by vag autowerks. it's pretty quick and very fun to drive with a few suspension mods

the interior feels like a very special place to be in the MK1, it just doesn't seem to care about time, easily my favorite part about the car

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[kermac]

Hi Volker - our paths cross again!!

I bought a 225TT back in January and on advice from the gurus held out for a wideband motor. Some say you can convert the earlier narrowband motor to wideband, others say it's not worth it.

I looked at several used cars with up to 200,000km (say, 120,000 miles) on the clock, and concluded in stock form they are a little more sluggish than I expected. My tuner in Sydney soon fixed that and his custom flash really blew the cobwebs out of the motor! It was a complete transformation. Naturally I'm now looking into an upgraded turbo, but a minimalist installation - possibly a Franken.

I also want to do some work on the exhaust - get rid of the loud harmonic at cruising speed just above 3K rpm, with a switchable valve to introduce a bit of growl on demand when overtaking on twisty roads. There don't seem to be any proprietary answers for this so it will be trial and error.

Cheers

[vtraudt]

Hi Volker - our paths cross again!!

I bought a 225TT back in January and on advice from the gurus held out for a wideband motor. Some say you can convert the earlier narrowband motor to wideband, others say it's not worth it.

225TT should be wideband; I am actually dabbling in getting one myself to fill as 'toy and daily for the kids'.

I have converted 2000 A4 (ATW, narrowband) to wideband (swap ECU, wideband adapter, wideband sensor). I assume same can be done to the TT.
But I sure hope (I will check now) the TT225 IS already wideband.

I have a decent, used TT225 turbo here; plan to use the core and make it a billet (for fun track days, need a bit more go power). And as always: cannot stand the 'no spool, no power until gazillion RPM' so called big turbos. (My Allroad makes 380 HP at 3800 rpm; THAT is useable power).

Our billet turbos flow quite a bit more compared to the original Frankenturbo. We had our TM5 on a 1.8T with E85 at 415 HP (435 lb ft), not fully tuned (only a quick test; this is NOT what the TM5 is meant for; but makes a GREAT turbo to max out stock block).

[kermac]

380HP at 3800 sounds good. My A4 with GTRS has very little below 3400 and I consider that just useable. 3000 would be better unless you routinely rev the cr*p out of it.

Not all 225s are wideband. The changeover, at least in Euro models, was in 2000. However, narrowband engines were still being sold (or at least registered) in late 2001 so you need to be careful to look for the stamp on the cylinder head. It is of course possible to change a TT/S3 narrowband motor to wideband just as you describe.

Are you talking about a modified Frankenturbo with a billet core? who makes the billet?

[vtraudt]

380HP at 3800 sounds good. My A4 with GTRS has very little below 3400 and I consider that just useable. 3000 would be better unless you routinely rev the cr*p out of it.

Not all 225s are wideband. The changeover, at least in Euro models, was in 2000. However, narrowband engines were still being sold (or at least registered) in late 2001 so you need to be careful to look for the stamp on the cylinder head. It is of course possible to change a TT/S3 narrowband motor to wideband just as you describe.

Are you talking about a modified Frankenturbo with a billet core? who makes the billet?

Which TT225 (engine code, "stamp on cylinder head") are narrowband?

"plan to use the core and make it a billet (for fun track days, need a bit more go power)": We build our own turbos (KraftwerkTurbos); I would use one of our billet wheels for my TT225 (turbine side is fine for the 1.8T since I am not going after mega high rpm peak power; but will check).

[vtraudt]

My A4 with GTRS has very little below 3400 and I consider that just useable. 3000 would be better unless you routinely rev the cr*p out of it.

I once overlaid a GTRS log (here on Audizine) with our KraftwerkTurbo TM5 (stock motor):

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/...psoycwoadd.jpg

[kermac]

Which TT225 (engine code, "stamp on cylinder head") are narrowband?

There is a factory stamp on the front right corner (as you look at the motor from the front of the car) of the head casting which gives you your engine code. I've forgotten the US codes but the Euro/Australian codes are APX for the earlier engine (all narrowband) and BAM for the later wideband code.

"plan to use the core and make it a billet (for fun track days, need a bit more go power)": We build our own turbos (KraftwerkTurbos); I would use one of our billet wheels for my TT225 (turbine side is fine for the 1.8T since I am not going after mega high rpm peak power; but will check).

That log is pretty amazing! A LOT of power very early with the TM5, the GTRS catches up by 5K and then tails off whereas the TM5 keeps going until 7K+. How does it do this? And on an otherwise stock motor? What about tuning and fuelling? Wouldn't you need a set of rods to cope with all that low-down power? (sorry - I haven't been keeping up with your posts).

Are you selling these things?

[kermac]

downpipe is highly beneficial the stock one chokes the crap out of the turbo at mid and high rpms

I wonder about this. I’m looking for the right turbo for my Mk I, and have contacted a number of tuners. Some say the entire exhaust system of the 225 is adequate for an increase in flow typical of a K04-based hybrid. Others say a high-flow manifold is required. Others that you can get the same result by gas-flowing the stock mani (but having looked at one it’s hard to see where you would remove any metal). Then there are those that predictably want to sell you their manifold AND 3” turbo-back system

This is the first time I’ve read the downpipe should be replaced in isolation. Maybe it’s right – but no one else seems to be saying this?

intercooler definitely helps keep everything consistent. the stock dual setup heatsoaks fast just like the 2.7T

Likewise, some tuners say the twin SMICs are right up to the job. I’m tempted to install water/meth injection like I have on my A4. A lot cheaper, much easier to install and takes up a lot less room if you are able to use the stock windscreen washer reservoir. And it works!

the interior feels like a very special place to be in the MK1, it just doesn't seem to care about time, easily my favorite part about the car

I'm with you there!

[hunTTsvegas]

There is a factory stamp on the front right corner (as you look at the motor from the front of the car) of the head casting which gives you your engine code. I've forgotten the US codes but the Euro/Australian codes are APX for the earlier engine (all narrowband) and BAM for the later wideband code.

'00-01: AMU (Narrowband)
'02-06: BEA (Wideband)

As far as I can remember.

[kermac]

'00-01: AMU (Narrowband)
'02-06: BEA (Wideband)

As far as I can remember.

That's approximately correct. However, there seems to have been some crossover. Some late 00 examples had a wideband motor, some 01 models had the narrowband. May have just been slow stock in the saleyard?

[hunTTsvegas]

Ah. I don't recall any 225hp but I know my 01 180hp fwd had a wideband ATC engine. Interesting for sure.

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[vtraudt]

larger maf is not needed. I highly recommend a wideband swap if your doing more than just a stg 1 tune

yes you can use the aeb head, might gain some power with even the stock turbo

downpipe is highly beneficial the stock one chokes the crap out of the turbo at mid and high rpms

yes you will probably need rods if you want to run aggressive timing/boost even on pump gas with full bolt on

intercooler definitely helps keep everything consistent. the stock dual setup heatsoaks fast just like the 2.7T

I'm running 630cc with a DW65v on e85 custom tuned by vag autowerks. it's pretty quick and very fun to drive with a few suspension mods

the interior feels like a very special place to be in the MK1, it just doesn't seem to care about time, easily my favorite part about the car

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I am still on stock block, but upgraded the clutch (Ringer Racing) when stage 2 slipped right away, and in the process put our very large (as K04 framed turbos go) TM6 billet (67mm compressor) on.
630cc. Stock MAF at 4.65Volt. Stock pump.
Low end is fine, cut currently (VAG Autowerks) but tapering boost down to protect stock rods.
Next: since I am coming close to pegging the MAF, I am putting a large 82mm ID MAF on (and velocity stack with large cone filter). When retuning, Want to bring up the mid/high a bit (thinking 20 psi).
Do you have logs (csv format) from tuning yours on E85?