Flywheel, CLutch noise

[verstappen]

whats up folks, I finished my stage 3 car a few weeks ago, I put about 400 miles on it and everything was dandy, it was about to get tuned but unfortunately Daz passed and now I was waiting to have Blake tune it.. but something strange is happening and I am fearing the worst... I started my car this morning and I heard a rattle coming from the flywheel/clutch.. it goes away when I depress the clutch, I started driving and the noise is increasing with RPM then it goes away past 3k, the thing is that the noise wasn't there, it just started today.

I have a vast alum fw, rs4 pp and a clutchnet 6 puck Kevlar disc.. everything felt perfect for a few weeks, not anymore... what do you guys think? loose flywheel?? bad pilot bearing?

flywheel was torqued as per manual with all new hardware, and also the pp.. new pilot bearing, new to bearing... wtf?

[julex]

I always had a slight rattle in my aluminum flywheel back in days when I have stage 3 kind of kit with RS4 pp, it would go away with clutch pressed in. Now, does the noise then change with change in load of engine? E.g, when you lug it at 2k rpms, does it change with how much gas pedal you press in? I think you have two kinds of noise in there, something rattling and classic clutch chatter, or rather tranny gears rattling, which you get as a reward for spending money on aluminum flywheel.

[verstappen]

I always had a slight rattle in my aluminum flywheel back in days when I have stage 3 kind of kit with RS4 pp, it would go away with clutch pressed in. Now, does the noise then change with change in load of engine? E.g, when you lug it at 2k rpms, does it change with how much gas pedal you press in? I think you have two kinds of noise in there, something rattling and classic clutch chatter, or rather tranny gears rattling, which you get as a reward for spending money on aluminum flywheel.

So on idle it goes away past 1200 rpm + or -, driving around it goes away but comes back when deccelerating on gear, so approaching a light, I let off the gas on gear and the rattle comes back.

[Timtheguru]

Check any heat shields around there and tighten them up..

[Sumo337]

Probably loose flywheel.

[verstappen]

Probably loose flywheel.

Indeed, I wonder how this bitch came loose, now I have to pull the damn engine again FML. I might just take it to the shop at this point, took me 3 months to pull my engine because I have no time available. Awesome...

[okkim]

Maybe too long flywheel bolts?

[verstappen]

Maybe too long flywheel bolts?

I guess? the flywheel had machined slightly where the bolts sit.. this sucks, now I need to pull the engine again. :( I almost want to pay someone to do it haha

[Timtheguru]

I guess? the flywheel had machined slightly where the bolts sit.. this sucks, now I need to pull the engine again. :( I almost want to pay someone to do it haha

Check your heat shields first...

[verstappen]

Check your heat shields first...

I will, I will jack up the car in a bit, see what's going on there.

[zillarob]

I guess? the flywheel had machined slightly where the bolts sit.. this sucks, now I need to pull the engine again. :( I almost want to pay someone to do it haha

If it had circles machined for the bolt heads and you didnt use washers

[verstappen]

If it had circles machined for the bolt heads and you didnt use washers

Yeah... it was machined for the bolt heads, no washers. Now I know. Time to do this again...

[zillarob]

Its prob time for a new motor.
This is one of the dragons that lurks in these cars.
When you bottom the bolts out like that, it destroys the thrust surface on the crank and crushes the thrust bearings.

[verstappen]

Its prob time for a new motor.
This is one of the dragons that lurks in these cars.
When you bottom the bolts out like that, it destroys the thrust surface on the crank and crushes the thrust bearings.

No effin way! Damn is this that bad??? Engine runs great! Fuck! Oh man... I need a drink.

[zillarob]

I did a clutch in one once and found it like that.
No telling how long it had been that way or how much further it would have gone.

[verstappen]

I did a clutch in one once and found it like that.
No telling how long it had been that way or how much further it would have gone.

This really sucks, fuck, what a mistake to make. How did you come across that? Why did you put the engine appart?

[zillarob]

Was doing a clutch on it at first and noticed the end of the bolts were jacked.
Dude had another crank and wanted rods so fixed it proper.

You can roll the dice and run it. If it made it this far you might get lucky.
Prob cheaper to buy a new motor than to fix it right.

[verstappen]

Was doing a clutch on it at first and noticed the end of the bolts were jacked.
Dude had another crank and wanted rods so fixed it proper.

You can roll the dice and run it. If it made it this far you might get lucky.
Prob cheaper to buy a new motor than to fix it right.

I will start the engine pull on Sunday, I might just run the engine for now, it has high miles too so who knows how long it will last. I will get an engine and start building it to have as a spare. Thanks for the input, I would have never thought this was so serious.

[zillarob]

Its only slightly better than putting one of the tranny bolts in the wrong spot and blowing a hole in the #6 cyl wall.

You may be good, you caught it before the fw broke off at least.
Now just hope you can get the bolts out without chewing up the holes in the crank.

Really no way of saying how long it will last and I would prob run it also. Cross country trips might make me a little nervous though.

[DxC]

If it had circles machined for the bolt heads and you didnt use washers

You know this never made sense to me. So I get countersinking the bolts so bolt heads don't hit the clutch disc springs, but doesn't putting a washer in there space it back out and make countersinking pointless? THe thing to do is just cut the bolts down

[verstappen]

You know this never made sense to me. So I get countersinking the bolts so bolt heads don't hit the clutch disc springs, but doesn't putting a washer in there space it back out and make countersinking pointless? THe thing to do is just cut the bolts down

Well, when I was installing the flywheel that is exactly what I was thinking, that it was room to clear the disc. Bolts torqued perfectly fine. I will pull the engine, inspect and post what I find.

[verstappen]

Its only slightly better than putting one of the tranny bolts in the wrong spot and blowing a hole in the #6 cyl wall.

You may be good, you caught it before the fw broke off at least.
Now just hope you can get the bolts out without chewing up the holes in the crank.

Really no way of saying how long it will last and I would prob run it also. Cross country trips might make me a little nervous though.

Are you serious? I did notice the trans bolts have a spot, I numbered them upon removal. That would be a shitty problem to have, has this ever happened to someone? I am guessing so since you are aware of it. I appreciate your input Zillarob, I owe you a cold one.

[zillarob]

You know this never made sense to me. So I get countersinking the bolts so bolt heads don't hit the clutch disc springs, but doesn't putting a washer in there space it back out and make countersinking pointless? THe thing to do is just cut the bolts down

I always kinda thought they put the steel washer in there to keep the bolts from chewing into the alum.
Bolts heads are only a prob with aftermarket type disks and as I recall they were big fans of modding stock parts.

[zillarob]

Are you serious? I did notice the trans bolts have a spot, I numbered them upon removal. That would be a shitty problem to have, has this ever happened to someone? I am guessing so since you are aware of it. I appreciate your input Zillarob, I owe you a cold one.

I think monty had a pic of that carnage from somewhere. Hole blown right through the cyl wall.

[verstappen]

I think monty had a pic of that carnage from somewhere. Hole blown right through the cyl wall.

that's nuts... so glad it didn't happen, I would be at my desk at work crying right now, looking for an engine.

[zillarob]

This is what you are up against if you want to get a head start.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...highlight=lear

[verstappen]

wow that looks messed up, well I hope my shit is not as bad, thankfully I haven't beat on the car yet, and right when I heard the noise I parked the car. I need to drive around the block to get to the garage in the back of my house, maybe I should get some help to push it. If my stuff is reusable (except hardware of course) Should I place washers on the bolts or cut the bolts? what do you suggest? Do you happen to know the thickness of a OEM disc? I know my disc is 240mm as per clutchnet.

[zillarob]

I think your biggest concern is the fw bolts coming back out. Hope they dont shear off and the threads in the crank are ok if they come out.
I think the holes in the crank are ~12mm deep, but only threaded ~10mm so the tips of the bolts will prob be mushed.

The bolt thing can be tough.
Clutchnet is the flat aftermarket style disk and doesnt like how high the oem bolt heads sit from a fw with oem dimentions.
You can measure 8 times (maybe 12 times just to be safe) then cut oem bolts shorter, or measure 8 times (again, maybe 12) and use washers and normal length aftermarket bolts with shorter heads.

Both are 240mm. Oem will be about 12mm loose, or 10mm compressed. Clutchnet is prob 8mm and no marcels so it wont compress and will drive like shit.

[Nollywood]

This is one of the reasons I prefer SM steel flywheels, with a stock depth in the bolt area.

[julex]

Some guy in europe literally locked his crank this way, posted no crank thread etc, etc, etc in the end they took apart the engine and found the thrust washers had literally dimples in them...

[verstappen]

Some guy in europe literally locked his crank this way, posted no crank thread etc, etc, etc in the end they took apart the engine and found the thrust washers had literally dimples in them...

wow!! hahaha how messed up. I am not even going to check my engine, if it pops oh well. But I guess I am buying a spare and start building it.