Need Help Please

[UberBrute]

Does anyone know if an Audi dealer tech would disconnect the battery in our car to replace the water pump on the engine? I'm looking for confirmation from someone who has access to Elsaweb or erWin that the tech would have followed OEM instructions that told him to disconnect the battery during this job.


More Info: One month ago I had the water pump in my car replaced under warranty. Two weeks ago I put the car in reverse and the back up sensor's went off for no reason (nothing behind me). Then this past Monday night while driving home the MMI kept rebooting. When I got home I checked the battery only to find that the negative terminal battery cable was very loose.

I tried hooking the car up to a battery tender and it took about 2 days for the battery tender to indicate that the battery was fully charged (making me think that the battery was very low). This morning I took the car off the battery tender and drove it. All seemed well, no more MMI rebooting. I parked the car, then drove it an hour later and the MMI rebooted once during that drive.

I'm thinking that the battery was disconnected during the water pump install by the Audi tech, and that for whatever reason the negative terminal cable wasn't tightened down at the end of this process. Because I was driving like this for a month, I'm guessing that the battery was slowly being killed due to not charging correctly from the loose cable.

I called the Service manager and explained all of this, and he flat out denies that they would have disconnected the battery for the water pump (and in the 14 month's I've owned the car I've never touched it). While I suppose it is possible that this is true, I find it hard to believe since there are multiple wires/sensors that have to be disconnected to remove the supercharger. Also, a coworker of mine is a former Toyota Service Manager (different brand, I know) but he agree'd that it was likely they disconnected it.

I'm looking for confirmation from someone who has access to Elsaweb or erWin that the tech would have followed OEM instructions that told him to disconnect the battery during this job. If it does turn out to be true that this isn't the case, then I accept that this must have happened before I bought the car and it's just been like that since and i'll just buy a battery.

Thanks in advance for the help.

[SteveYem]

I do not know the answer to your question (although it sounds like you may be on to something), but by any chance do you have any remaining warranty coverage? This sounds like it should be covered under warranty, whatever the cause is.

[UberBrute]

I do not know the answer to your question (although it sounds like you may be on to something), but by any chance do you have any remaining warranty coverage? This sounds like it should be covered under warranty, whatever the cause is.

Yep, I am still under the factory warranty (and cpo after that). I tried to search online if a battery is covered under the original warranty or not, but haven't found a definitive answer.

[whiped]

The battery is considered a "wear item" and is not covered under the warranty if it goes bad due to normal wear & tear.

However, in your case I think you have a good chance at getting it replaced free of charge if you can prove they messed with it while replacing your water pump.

Hopefully someone here can dig up some documentation for you.

If not, you could try contacting AoA directly and ask if they can check. (Worse they can do is say no)

[SteveYem]

I'm just spit-balling here, but does the car computer keep a log of unusual MMI activity (i.e. reboots exceeding the number of ignition cycles), or a log of the battery health versus date? Maybe you could put together evidence that this unusual behavior and resulting battery life depletion started after you got your car back from this service. If the service manual shows that the battery has to be unplugged for this service, I think you'll have a pretty cut and dry case.

FWIW, I had my battery disconnected last year to install an aftermarket subwoofer and amp, and even with me being a noob with butterfingers I managed to get the negative terminal reconnected successfully. Pretty bad if an Audi tech can't manage it.

[UberBrute]

The battery is considered a "wear item" and is not covered under the warranty if it goes bad due to normal wear & tear.

However, in your case I think you have a good chance at getting it replaced free of charge if you can prove they messed with it while replacing your water pump.

Hopefully someone here can dig up some documentation for you.

If not, you could try contacting AoA directly and ask if they can check. (Worse they can do is say no)

Yea I had thought that the battery might be a wear item, and if that's the case then I've already figured out what to buy and how to recode it (i have a vagcom cable) if it turns out that this is just a coincidence that the battery died with a lose wire shortly after a service..

Contacting AOA is a good idea, thanks!

[UberBrute]

I'm just spit-balling here, but does the car computer keep a log of unusual MMI activity (i.e. reboots exceeding the number of ignition cycles), or a log of the battery health versus date? Maybe you could put together evidence that this unusual behavior and resulting battery life depletion started after you got your car back from this service. If the service manual shows that the battery has to be unplugged for this service, I think you'll have a pretty cut and dry case.

FWIW, I had my battery disconnected last year to install an aftermarket subwoofer and amp, and even with me being a noob with butterfingers I managed to get the negative terminal reconnected successfully. Pretty bad if an Audi tech can't manage it.

All good ideas. I have a vagcom cable so I'll see what I can find this weekend. I have an appointment with the dealer Monday morning for this so I have a few days to find some more info.

As for the cable not being tightened down, I agree that would be pretty sloppy. Especially if they had in fact disconnected it. It would be pretty hard to go back to the trunk at the end of the service, put the wire back onto the terminal, and forget to tighten it..

Who knows though, in the end it may be possible the tech didn't do anything and that this is just a coincidence.

[SteveYem]

All good ideas. I have a vagcom cable so I'll see what I can find this weekend. I have an appointment with the dealer Monday morning for this so I have a few days to find some more info.

As for the cable not being tightened down, I agree that would be pretty sloppy. Especially if they had in fact disconnected it. It would be pretty hard to go back to the trunk at the end of the service, put the wire back onto the terminal, and forget to tighten it..

Who knows though, in the end it may be possible the tech didn't do anything and that this is just a coincidence.

Out of curiosity, which dealership are you using? Depending on how this turns out, I may want to avoid using them. Feel free to PM me.

[blackfunk]

Take a vid of the rebooting and take it to the dealership. They'll replace the battery as the first step. Problem solved.

[jran76]

The shop manual doesn't say specifically in the "remove water (coolant) pump" section. It may say somewhere else in more of a general procedure.

Do you know if they replaced the t-stat also?

I would say there is a very high likelihood they would have disconnected the battery either way. You should do so anytime you disconnect a coolant line as the pump can kick on at random, and will send coolant all over the place if there is power. For the water pump alone, the manual only calls to disconnect a coolant hose. For the t-stat, you have to remove the S/C, and disconnect some coolant hoses. If the S/C is removed, I'd say it's mandatory (coolant can get into the top of the engine at that point if the pump turns on--ask me how I know).

Edit: Actually, both procedures say to drain the coolant first, so I don't know....

Edit 2: In the precautions for working on the coolant system, it does not mention disconnecting the battery. So, at least in the shop manual, it does not say to do so. Doesn't mean it wasn't done, but they weren't told explicitly to do so in the manual.

[DannyDeez]

If your MMI keeps rebooting make sure you bring it in for that and keep brining it in for that until it's fixed. The CPO warranty doesn't cover issues with the mmi. Get it done now while you're still under the original warranty.

Also if you're buying a battery, ask them if they pro rate it. It might be too old for that though.

[chaos2984]

The battery is considered a "wear item" and is not covered under the warranty if it goes bad due to normal wear & tear.

However, in your case I think you have a good chance at getting it replaced free of charge if you can prove they messed with it while replacing your water pump.

Hopefully someone here can dig up some documentation for you.

If not, you could try contacting AoA directly and ask if they can check. (Worse they can do is say no)

Not true. You need to check with Audi about what their policy is. But most batteries are covered completely under the factory warranty of cars. Ive worked for 4 diff manufacturers and they all covered the battery up unit the factory base warranty expired. But Your case isn't the battery failed. Your case was the battery failed due to loose terminal. The battery is consequential damage. And not the main fault.

I would loosen the cable back up leave it like you found it and take it in and state that the MMI restarts on its own and all the other issues your having.

As far as removing the battery this is coming form a tech NON Audi. But I never disconnect the battery even if the procedure said to disconnect it, unless im pulling the engine or servicing the battery. I never disconnect it even with messing with the alternator or air bags. The only time I disconnected the battery was on hybrids for servicing anywhere near or around the hybrid components.

[whiped]

Not true. You need to check with Audi about what their policy is. But most batteries are covered completely under the factory warranty of cars. Ive worked for 4 diff manufacturers and they all covered the battery up unit the factory base warranty expired. But Your case isn't the battery failed. Your case was the battery failed due to loose terminal. The battery is consequential damage. And not the main fault.

I pulled that straight out of the warranty manual that came with the car. The battery, just like your brake pads, filters and tires are all considered wear items.

Granted, in this case the battery failed prematurely and not from normal wear and tear so I agree, it should be completely covered.

From the CPO Warranty PDF I found online:

Wear items - This warranty does not cover any wear items, including, but not limited to, the replacement of clutch linings, brake pads, brake linings, brake rotors, windshield wiper blades, tie-rod ends, CV joints or boots, incandescent bulbs, fuses, radio tape head cassette cleaning, worn seatcovers, other trim and appearance items that wear as a result of normal use or deterioration, battery, exhaust systems, accessory belts and hoses that wear as a result of normal use. Audi of America, Inc. reserves the right to make changes on non-covered items without notice. Please check with your dealer for coverage on a particular item.

Wear clarification - Your Audi technician is authorized to decide if a component is worn as opposed to having a factory defect. Warranty covers items that fail due to a defect in material and workmanship; warranty does not cover items that fail due to wear. Many components on your Certified pre-owned Audi will wear based on driving technique, exposure to elements or gradual normal deterioration. Items that have failed based on any one of these criteria are not considered to have a factory defect and would not be covered under your Audi Certified pre-owned Limited Warranty.

[MrFunk]

If you have AudiCare they will replace the battery for you.
If you don't then I don't think it's part of the warranty.
Here is what's included in the 35k service which is covered by AudiCare or paid for out of pocket.
You may have an argument about the tech disconnecting the battery - call your SA and have a civil conversation about it. They are customer focused so they should treat you fairly...


Parts
Description Quantity Part Number Amount
Engine Oil Filter 1 06E115562A
DSG/S-Tronic Oil Filter 1 0B5325330A
Plug with Seal/O-Ring 1 0B5398048
Dust/Pollen Filter 1 8K0819439B
DSG/S-Tronic Oil (Quarts) 7 G 052529A2
Synthetic Engine Oil (Quarts) 7.1 ZVW352540S DSP

Labor
Description
Battery - Check for damage or corrosion, replace if necessary.
Brake System - check for damage, leaks, pad thickness, fluid level
Cooling System - check level, add if necessary
Cowl Drain - check for obstruction, clean if necessary
Doors - lubricate door hinge mechanisms
Drive Shaft Boots - check
Engine Compartment - check for leaks
Engine On Board Diagnostics - check fault memory
Exhaust System - check for damage, leaks
Horn - Check Function
Lights - check all lights, check headlight adjustment
Power Steering Fluid - check, add if necessary
Road Test - check
Service Reminder Display - reset
Snow Screen for Air Cleaner - clean
Tires and Spare - check for wear and damage, check pressure
Transmission and final drive - check for leaks
Underbody - check for damage and leaks
Wiper Arm Pivot Points - lubricate
Wiper/Washer/Headlight Washer - check adjustment and function, add fluid if necessary
DSG (direct shift gearbox)/S-Tronic - replace filter element
DSG (direct shift gearbox)/S-Tronic - change oil
Dust and Pollen Filter - replace
Engine Oil Filter - replace
Plug with Seal/O-Ring - replace
Synthetic Engine Oil - change

[chaos2984]

I pulled that straight out of the warranty manual that came with the car. The battery, just like your brake pads, filters and tires are all considered wear items.

Granted, in this case the battery failed prematurely and not from normal wear and tear so I agree, it should be completely covered.

From the CPO Warranty PDF I found online:

Dam that sux. I know CPO wont cover it. I can't believe that the factory warranty wont cover it. And all you get is 12/12 on it. Most give you base warranty which is 3/36 or 4/50 except for true wear items which is 12/12 But I know if they say that the loose connection caused the battery to fail prematurely then they should be able to get it covered. Its like saying that brake caliper started leaking and contaminated the brake pads or the caliper got stuck and wore the pads out on one side before the other and you get a whole brake job.