S7 to FULL RS7 conversion estimated price?

[notn41]

Anyone who is very familiar with the engine, trans, ecu etc. What would it take to make an s7 into an rs7. Engine compression ratio, turbos, etc. maybe trans too.

Not interested in external bodywork, just performance.

I know nothing about this but I was curious. I know the compression ratio is lower on rs7(full internal different or just lower compression difference only?), larger turbos, different cooler, different trans.

[JoeCaMotto]

I think it would be cheaper to just upgrade to RS7 then to try and covert S7 into RS7. Just my .02

[S4Per]

For context: a new engine looks to be around $37k from Audi based on a recent thread on here.
Haven't looked into if the tranny would actually fit - I highly doubt it would. Even if it did, I'm sure those aren't going for less than $10k.

Trivia might be a reason to explore the full answer here, but economics / practicality stop you pretty quickly.

[VeryBadman]

What did inspire you to have this idea? This project is in no way gonna be cheaper than just walk in to dealership's door and trade in for RS7.

[Vol 4.0T]

For context: a new engine looks to be around $37k from Audi based on a recent thread on here.
Haven't looked into if the tranny would actually fit - I highly doubt it would. Even if it did, I'm sure those aren't going for less than $10k.

Trivia might be a reason to explore the full answer here, but economics / practicality stop you pretty quickly.

Just because a new RS7 engine may cost tens of thousands new from the dealer doesn't necessarily mean it will cost anywhere near that to convert an S7 engine to RS7 specs. The blocks are identical.

While I personally wouldn't go through the trouble or cost of touching the bottom end because I feel the differences are trivial, it's not out of the realm of possibilities to pull the engine, buy RS7 pistons, crankshaft, cams, exhaust valves and hardware and drop it off at a local machine shop with a good reputation.

Why wouldn't the tranny fit? The S7 and RS7 share identical chassis.

If you took the time to actually look up the price of the RS7 transmission you'd see it's significantly less than $10K. Why make statements like "I'm sure those aren't going for less than $10k" when you really don't have a clue how much it costs? It's this kind of misinformation that's dangerous since people accept it as fact and often act on it.

What did inspire you to have this idea? This project is in no way gonna be cheaper than just walk in to dealership's door and trade in for RS7.

That's not necessarily true. It all depends on how far you want to take the conversion. Look at TurtleHaste. He upgraded only the most important bits like the RS7 turbos and inlets and based on his 1/4 mile results, he's making comparable power to a stage 1 RS7.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine mobile app

[S4Per]

My first thought when this thread came up was, "There is no way he is going to be able to resist and stay true to his word".

Anything is possible. I put the engine price in to steer OP down a practical path where he was clearly wanting to go somewhere far beyond Turtlehaste, I.e. Read the title of the thread.

[VeryBadman]

My first thought when this thread came up was, "There is no way he is going to be able to resist and stay true to his word".

Anything is possible. I put the engine price in to steer OP down a practical path where he was clearly wanting to go somewhere far beyond Turtlehaste, I.e. Read the title of the thread.

Someone just wanted to appear smarter than anybody else like usual.

[Vol 4.0T]

How is correcting your misinformation not being true to my word? I made it clear today that despite no longer sharing new ideas with the forum, at the same time I'm not going anywhere.

Putting the engine price in there with no mention or hint of an alternative plan would only steer him away from attempting a conversion in any capacity.

I did read the forum title. Again, you can do a full conversion without paying $37K for an engine.

My first thought when this thread came up was, "There is no way he is going to be able to resist and stay true to his word".

Anything is possible. I put the engine price in to steer OP down a practical path where he was clearly wanting to go somewhere far beyond Turtlehaste, I.e. Read the title of the thread.

[ichi d]

It would be nice for you to also back up your statement, With some references. other wise your just misleading people and talking out of your ass too.

How is correcting your misinformation not being true to my word? I made it clear today that despite no longer sharing new ideas with the forum, at the same time I'm not going anywhere.

Putting the engine price in there with no mention or hint of an alternative plan would only steer him away from attempting a conversion in any capacity.

I did read the forum title. Again, you can do a full conversion without paying $37K for an engine.

[notn41]

Are engines identical minus the compression ratio and heads? Can those parts be swapped with cooling and turbos to achieve same Hp as rs7.

And maybe leave the trans alone and pray?

[MileMan402]

Are engines identical minus the compression ratio and heads?

The RS block undergoes a T6 high temp bakeout/heat treatment. I don't believe the S6/7 block undergoes this process. Additionally the crankshafts are different materials between the blocks and the RS' main bearing size is 67mm (up from 65mm).

Note 1: AFAIK, all the RS "upgrades" apply to the S8 block as well.
Note 2: I'm sure Vol can confirm/deny all of this (no, I'm not being a smartass).

[S4Per]

Recycling: this is probably the most succinct and to the point summary to give OP a sense of what would be required for a FULL engine conversion.


As stated, I don't see the point of going the route of 'full conversion', though. Get some RS7 turbos, a tune (if you have someone local you can trust, I'd go custom), and have fun knowing that you're in the neighborhood of Stage 1 RS7 tuned performance, for a lot less cash than buying an RS7.

[moosehead1]

Even if one could convert the powerplant via parts and say troll around for a slightly used tranny, and on a swag presume the cost is say $15k to do so, you'll likely double that by ground effects, trim, front end, etc. Then value the warranty. Then accept the exposure.

Bottom line is it would take more money than sense.

[hubris]

Saw a couple 10-12k miles CPO 2015 RS7s, which means it comes with that nice Audi warranty, for $98-100k. After all the time and money that has gone into my S6 to mod and obtain closer-to-RS7 power levels, with the overarching persistent fear of breaking things due to less tolerance for strain than RS parts, I would much rather spend/finance the extra 30k for an RS7.

So far my mods are almost $10k, so really it's a $20k difference for much more reliability and higher rated engineering in general. Hindsight is 20/20.

[S4Per]

One add: contrary to the assumption above, I did check the transmission price and did not supply 'misinformation'. Retail is ~$12k up here in Seattle, not counting install. $10k quoted figuring someone can get a better deal somewhere. I haven't looked at the gear ratio differences between the two, but if they're different, you might need to swap the rear diff also.

[notn41]

Recycling: this is probably the most succinct and to the point summary to give OP a sense of what would be required for a FULL engine conversion.


As stated, I don't see the point of going the route of 'full conversion', though. Get some RS7 turbos, a tune (if you have someone local you can trust, I'd go custom), and have fun knowing that you're in the neighborhood of Stage 1 RS7 tuned performance, for a lot less cash than buying an RS7.

Fantastic video, been looking for something like this. Thank you for info.

[notn41]

Well engine swap is out of the question. Way too many changes. What about larger turbo swap than the rs turbo swap? Maybe that would make more sense.

[CanuckRS]

Anyone who is very familiar with the engine, trans, ecu etc. What would it take to make an s7 into an rs7. Engine compression ratio, turbos, etc. maybe trans too.

Not interested in external bodywork, just performance.

I know nothing about this but I was curious. I know the compression ratio is lower on rs7(full internal different or just lower compression difference only?), larger turbos, different cooler, different trans.

I can see someone doing this if the RS7 wasn't available here but that is not the situation.
You would be spending oodles of cash to get a much less reliable vehicle with no warranty when you could just go out and trade for one likely for a lot less money and headaches.
I'm sure it could be done, the question is why?

[S4Per]

Well engine swap is out of the question. Way too many changes. What about larger turbo swap than the rs turbo swap? Maybe that would make more sense.

No one has gone there - - yet.
I'm confident that hybrids will begin to surface in the next 6-8 months, though (machine the housing and add bigger/better CHRA's).

As noted, you can get stock RS7 performance today (straight line speed, at least) by doing the turbo swap, which also can get you close to tuned RS7 performance (documented 10.74 on Stg 3 S6 (TurtleHaste, who also did surrounding mods) vs 10.59 in tuned RS7 (Sciblades with the fastest here to date?).

All that said, I'm not quite sure what your exact goals are at this point.

[MileMan402]

What about larger turbo swap than the rs turbo swap? Maybe that would make more sense.

TTE and Loba both have upgrades. I'm not sure how the dimensions compare to that of the RS units, but TTE has at least two options (TTE800 & TTE900). Then there is Total Race who put the GT28 setup in that blue RS7 in Europe.

[S4Per]

Forgot about the Total Race (which is an RS7 for starters vs S6, though), good catch and thanks. Any idea if they moved forward to make it available to more vs that one off?

[Vol 4.0T]

All the 4.0T blocks are the same. The differences between the different models are in the pistons, crankshaft, cams, and valves.

The RS block undergoes a T6 high temp bakeout/heat treatment. I don't believe the S6/7 block undergoes this process. Additionally the crankshafts are different materials between the blocks and the RS' main bearing size is 67mm (up from 65mm).

Note 1: AFAIK, all the RS "upgrades" apply to the S8 block as well.
Note 2: I'm sure Vol can confirm/deny all of this (no, I'm not being a smartass).

[Vol 4.0T]

Wrong again.

https://www.audionlineparts.com/part...nent=TRANSAXLE

Why don't you post some more misinformation?

One add: contrary to the assumption above, I did check the transmission price and did not supply 'misinformation'. Retail is ~$12k up here in Seattle, not counting install. $10k quoted figuring someone can get a better deal somewhere. I haven't looked at the gear ratio differences between the two, but if they're different, you might need to swap the rear diff also.

[MileMan402]

All the 4.0T blocks are the same. The differences between the different models are in the pistons, crankshaft, cams, and valves.

This references the S8 block, but it shows that Audi is heat treating the high output 4.0 blocks.

[S4Per]

Lol. Just stop, or please try to READ before commenting. "~$12k UP HERE IN SEATTLE, not counting install." Is that so hard to comprehend? That comes from Audi direct....ZERO misinformation.
I moved that to $10k assuming you could find a better deal somewhere, which - great job, you found one for $7,200! You probably need to add shipping to that. So - why not say, "Hey, directionally correct, but I found a place you can actually get it for a couple grand cheaper"? This gets back to your choice about how you want to present yourself on these forums.

[Vol 4.0T]

The purpose of the forum is to help people with their projects, not scare them away by quoting them inflated dealer prices which are higher than list price like you did with the transmission and engine. If you're going to go through the trouble of price the parts out, why wouldn't you look to a place that wouldn't rape the OP?

Lol. Just stop, or please try to READ before commenting. "~$12k UP HERE IN SEATTLE, not counting install." Is that so hard to comprehend? That comes from Audi direct....ZERO misinformation.
I moved that to $10k assuming you could find a better deal somewhere, which - great job, you found one for $7,200! You probably need to add shipping to that. So - why not say, "Hey, directionally correct, but I found a place you can actually get it for a couple grand cheaper"? This gets back to your choice about how you want to present yourself on these forums.

[S4Per]

I had the info on hand from prior (random) discussion with a friend, who happens to be a Master Tech at the largest Audi dealer in Seattle (chatting power levels and trans across C7 platform when I brought it in for service last).

I thought OP was pretty clear about wanting a 'FULL' conversion minus body changes in his first post, hence I stopped there. You can see I volunteered more info as the question got revised.

[Vol 4.0T]

Just because he wants to do a FULL conversion doesn't mean he wishes to pay through-the-nose dealer prices that are higher than full list price. It's obvious he's concerned about the cost of the swap since he's asking how much it would cost. Your posts were misleading and inaccurate and not helpful to his objectives.

I had the info on hand from prior (random) discussion with a friend, who happens to be a Master Tech at the largest Audi dealer in Seattle (chatting power levels and trans across C7 platform when I brought it in for service last).

I thought OP was pretty clear about wanting a 'FULL' conversion minus body changes in his first post, hence I stopped there. You can see I volunteered more info as the question got revised.

[S4Per]

I disagree. Have a nice day.

[Monty23]

I can see someone doing this if the RS7 wasn't available here but that is not the situation.
You would be spending oodles of cash to get a much less reliable vehicle with no warranty when you could just go out and trade for one likely for a lot less money and headaches.
I'm sure it could be done, the question is why?

This will make sense in 10 years for DIY guys when these cars become unreliable (in stock form due to age) and therefore inexpensive to purchase and modify.

[tonymission]

I thought dude was quitting the board and not helping anyone become faster.
Because he's been such a big help with his wheel setup and all those other things.

[S4Per]

Nope. He redefined the word "contributing" to now mean "not starting any 'informative' threads", which is apparently not the same as chiming into other threads (my best guess at his definition, I'm sure he'll correct it shortly).

He's now off on the 'power loss' thread trying to gather support there (completely different issue, context, circumstance) to use as proof here. The conflating of issues, statements, etc. is truly amazing.

[Vol 4.0T]

Yeah right. I never said I would stop correcting your misinformation. I'll continue helping people like the OP achieve their goals. I'm not going to go out of my way to start threads to share new findings, products, data, etc. that I come across along my 9 second journey.

The other thread had nothing to do this one until you brought it up. I simply wanted to see if myself and other forum members influenced him to go the Indy route, saving him tens of thousands of dollars in the process. In other words, I'm really curious if he was actually going to shell out $40K+ to the stealership. I would never consider anything even remotely close to that but I know everyone's different.

Nope. He redefined the word "contributing" to now mean "not starting any 'informative' threads", which is apparently not the same as chiming into other threads (my best guess at his definition, I'm sure he'll correct it shortly).

He's now off on the 'power loss' thread trying to gather support there (completely different issue, context, circumstance) to use as proof here. The conflating of issues, statements, etc. is truly amazing.

[ecpChris]

Even if the full swap to become an rs7 close was more economical up front (than selling/rading an s7 to buy an rs7), the back end loss on trying to sell a bastard car would more than make up the difference. Even for the guy who thinks he is going to keep the car forever, to me it seems more trouble than it is worth.

[S4Per]

Yeah right. I never said I would stop correcting your misinformation. I'll continue helping people like the OP achieve their goals. I'm not going to go out of my way to start threads to share new findings, products, data, etc. that I come across along my 9 second journey.

The other thread had nothing to do this one until you brought it up. I simply wanted to see if myself and other forum members influenced him to go the Indy route, saving him tens of thousands of dollars in the process. In other words, I'm really curious if he was actually going to shell out $40K+ to the stealership. I would never consider anything even remotely close to that but I know everyone's different.

Vol,

Let's be done with this; it's not helping anyone. I'm going to continue to do my best of providing helpful information to people to steer them in the right direction and share what I've learned. I'm going to try and ask a couple more questions of people to clarify statements/questions so as not to assume too much. My ask/wish from you is to try to come to this forum with a spirit of "best intent", i.e. everyone is here trying to help, doing their best. If you see things you disagree with, there are great ways and not so great ways to call that out, and many times it's just our own personal filters that lead us to think one thing over another, and when someone else's perspective is gained, things can look a lot different. I think being a bit more cognizant of that will go a long ways with many on here; I know it will for myself. The statements of "I know more than everyone here combined" - - which I know was used in an emotional moment, don't help and do come through in some of your other posts. It's the 'how' of some of your posts that rubs people the wrong way and alienates them. Slight adjustments would probably lead to an entirely different experience for all of us here.

I hope you see the sincerity in this post, and you'll help us move on from this, get a fresh start, as we're not helping anyone here. You have my promise that I'm going to do my best.

-Per

[SharkNardo]

This back and forth between Vol and Per has been fun to read....and thoroughly tame compared to what happens on Rennlist with the Porsche folks.....lol

[VeryBadman]

This back and forth between Vol and Per has been fun to read....and thoroughly tame compared to what happens on Rennlist with the Porsche folks.....lol

I can't disagree with that! It's somehow entertaining me.

[SharkNardo]

I can't disagree with that! It's somehow entertaining me.

After reading the thread Vol posted in the Chatterbox forum, I was entertained some more...and was further convinced that he would get completely DESTROYED on Rennlist. Holy flame suit Batman.

[VeryBadman]

After reading the thread Vol posted in the Chatterbox forum, I was entertained some more...and was further convinced that he would get completely DESTROYED on Rennlist. Holy flame suit Batman.

I have never owned a Porsche so I don't really know how ruthless Porsche folks can be but I have heard the rumor as well that it's very intense over there.

[SharkNardo]

I have never owned a Porsche so I don't really know how ruthless Porsche folks can be but I have heard the rumor as well that it's very intense over there.

I can confirm the rumor to be true. It's a very passionate and knowledgeable group of enthusiasts that welcome new members to the fold. However, there is little patience for know-it-calls with superiority complexes that revel in starting trouble. It's a lethal cocktail that is dealt with severely and immediately. People like Vol (and some others on here and an AudiWorld Mod interestingly) would not last long.