Does a worn out cam follower and cam send metal shrapnel through engine?

[saullyb]

I'm looking at a B7 that had its cam/cam follower/cam/HPFP replaced at 98k by Audi dealer. This seems great as it avoid any issues for me down the road? But if it got worn so badly that the cam had to be replaced, wouldn't that have sent metal flakes through the engine potentially messing up other things?

Really want to join the B7 club here, coming from a B3 20V

Let me know if you think I should be concerned or be confident in buying this.

[Low and Behold]

Definitely make use of the search feature for this one. Its been covered quite a bit.

Concerned? Maybe. Its nice that its been replaced but my question would be why. Oil consumption and its related issues is something search for as well

[adam044]

What do you mean why was it replaced? Because it's supposed to be replaced thats why...

[allstock]

Definitely can. No two incidents are always the same. I've seen an older thread a few years back with a member that had an exit puncture like something shot out at high speed. This was before the whole cam follower issue was out.

[Schweini]

I'm looking at a B7 that had its cam/cam follower/cam/HPFP replaced at 98k by Audi dealer. This seems great as it avoid any issues for me down the road? But if it got worn so badly that the cam had to be replaced, wouldn't that have sent metal flakes through the engine potentially messing up other things?

Really want to join the B7 club here, coming from a B3 20V

Let me know if you think I should be concerned or be confident in buying this.

Hopefuly all the flakes have been caught in the pan and or found and discarded (assuming the service was done due to a neglected worn through follower). If everything has been changed, I wouldn't worry, quite the opposite actually. Id love to have that service done.

This is all assuming Audi did a thorough inspection and flush. I wouldn't be worrying at all

[Low and Behold]

What do you mean why was it replaced? Because it's supposed to be replaced thats why...

Ha to each their own. I would want to know details. You apparently wouldn't.

[Okedokey]

Ha to each their own. I would want to know details. You apparently wouldn't.

It is a wear item, requires regular replacement.

[drewgold]

If the cam was replaced, it means that there was a pretty serious failure and debris entered the engine. The oil filter is *supposed* to catch debris and prevent it from entering the lower part of the engine. It's a bit of a gamble but the fact that the came was replaced probably means that everything else was inspected and was ok. That doesn't mean that there isn't accelerated wear on other engine components though. I'd have oil pressure and compression checked for sure. You could also have the cylinders inspected for scoring using a borescope.

[saullyb]

Holy shit I fucking hate Audi's. I love them so much but it's such a shit show. Can't buy a B8 because the cam tensioner shits all over itself and fucks the engine. I thought B7's would be it, but now I read all these horror stories about these followers. I'd definitely feel much more comfortable if it had been changed every 30k vs failing and then all of this having been swapped. I mean you'd think they would fish out metal particles but half of these dealerships don't give a flying... And I read that the particles can bypass the oil filter supposedly?

I'm just so unsure as to whether the fact that the parts were swapped should comfort me or worry me. There seems to be a lot of people arguing that they'd rather wait until it breaks and get it all replaced. To me, I'd much rather prevent any wear at all and swap the follower every 10k miles.


So with my little vent, I have some more questions for you:

Has there been a lot of people who had the whole package replaced and their engines failed soon after due to the debris?
How much damage can floating particles do to an engine?
They wouldn't manage to get into the cylinders and score them would they?
Also, did 2008 A4's still have oil consumption issues? I need to make sure that this car doesn't have that but I don't know how to do it without taking a 500 mile test drive and checking the level.
Would a magnetic plug and like 5 oil changes every 500 miles for the first 2.5k miles clean out the majority of the debris?


I read somewhere that one of the reasons for this happening supposedly is because the HPFP seal would go bad and leak gas into the head cleaning out the mating surface of the follower and cam, resulting in premature wear as lubrication is compromised. Just an interesting though as a reason that this issue exists.


Thank you guys immensely for the help.

[adam044]

Wasn't clear to me if the cam was replaced or just the follower. If the cam was replaced then that's a different story. If it was just the follower it's a good thing it was replaced.

[saullyb]

Cam, cam follower, and HPFP were all replaced. It was done at an Audi dealership.

[mtroxel]

Can't buy a B8 because the cam tensioner shits all over itself and fucks the engine. I thought B7's would be it, but now I read all these horror stories about these followers.

I've driven Audi's for over 800,000 miles. Almost all of the stuff that "happens to all Audi's" on these forums, has never happened to any of mine. Remember, people come to these forums because they have a problem. No one comes to a forum to tell you their car didn't break today.

[oVeRdOsE]

I've driven Audi's for over 800,000 miles. Almost all of the stuff that "happens to all Audi's" on these forums, has never happened to any of mine. Remember, people come to these forums because they have a problem. No one comes to a forum to tell you their car didn't break today.

this is true.

Probably why the dealer told me those FSI are good engine and they don't have so many problems. ( I think is a lie, but if you're right, it might be not).

Maintenance, maintenance, and you'll be ok.

The issue there, people are not use to do maintenance, (time , money).

But we can be clear, that those engines are not JDM.

SR20DeT or VQ35DE T/SC with 400whp and reliable with stock internal, forget that with FSI.

All is relative.

[ilmonster]

saullyb, I just looked at my cam follower at 122K miles on my 2008 A4 and it was eaten through (I bought the car new). I replaced it and my engine runs fine. Aside from reading all these cam follower threads, which prompted me to check and replace mine, my engine ran fine before I replaced it and runs fine now with almost 1K miles on the new follower. My engine always used 3/4 of a quart of oil between my 6K miles oil changes - so no oil consumption issues that you asked about. My engine runs smooth, gets 25-27 mpg in town and low 30's on the freeway. Ticked me off that the "fixed" 2008 model still fragged it's follower, but my A4 still appears to run fine.

Regarding the B8's, from what I've read, the 2012 and newer models appear to have the cam, oil consumption issues, etc. fixed. The 2009-2011 models had those issues. Considering one of those myself. Cheers!

[saullyb]

@mtroxel I love the devils advocate, and I agree with you.

@oVeRdOsE I am very aware of all the maintenance that has to go into Audi's as I drive a B3 90 20V right now. I suppose I'm just frustrated that things like the follower which can compromise the engine are not actually listed as maintenance by Audi themselves.

@ilmonster 2012 and newer did figure out the tensioner issues, but time will tell what else might surface. I'm glad you not having issues. Have you done any looking to see whether there are any metal flakes in your oil or filter? If you have, let me know what you found.


Looking at the facts:

- There is a lot of people that had their cam follower go bad and got it warrantied by dealer (cam, cam follower, HPFP all replaced) and continued to drive happy afterwards.
- It looks like there aren't very many cases of engines grenading after the warranty work. From general post/thread counts, there are far more people that had the warranty work done and didn't say anything after vs. people that had warranty work done and then posted about engine grenading. This tells me that when Audi warranties it, they must do a decent job at extracting the shrapnel or ensuring it doesn't blow the motor.


At this point, I think I'm going to take the car.

Steps:
- Call the dealer that did the warrranty work and ask them how they addressed the possibility of shrapnel.
- Schedule a good PPI w/ oil change and check the oil filter contents.
- Make sure cylinder compression test is done and everything checks out.
- Check oil pressure before buying, which idk how I'm going to do that, my B3 has oil pressure gauge, I don't think B7 has that.

If I buy it, then I'll just do a bunch of oil changes in the first 5k and maybe drop the pan and clean that out, in addition to magnetic oil plug.



Thanks to everyone for the advice. If you've got any other advice, be sure to post!