Engine Management for custom set-up

[B6A4Dave]

I have read several threads regarding this topic but have found little information to help secure my decision as to which route I want to go.

I have sourced information from the following sources and thread
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...rmation-thread
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-B6-compatible
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...t-3076-haltech

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...knowledge-dump
http://www.vi-pec.com/techdata/ecu-m...-plugin-manual

Before people start flaming and making the " Why do you need all that posts" I'm going to start with the limitations I have ran into utilizing stock-like management systems including Eurodyne, but first the contenders.

Option 1) LinkEcu TTLink (G4+)
http://www.linkecu.com/iPA1_2

Option 2) Vi-Pec i88 i-Series Plugin
http://www.vi-pec.com/ecus/iseries__pluginecu

Option 3) 034 Motorsports IIC Standalone + Tach adapter add on
Product has been removed from 034's website but is still available via Jeremy @ 034.
https://store.034motorsport.com/tach...tage-tach.html

Option 4) Eurodyne Maestro7
Not something I want to do due to limitations to be listed below.

Option 5) AEM EMS
http://www.aemelectronics.com/produc...iv-18t-engines

The issue I have found with Eurodyne through experience tuning a friend's car with a similar set-up to mine is the Limitations of the ME7 ECU to support additional inputs and/or change the OE sensors to aftermarket units. Eurodyne only really has support for larger diameter MAF housings and sensors, however no support for a higher psi MAP sensor or additional Oxygen sensor inputs.

0v on the OE WBO2 is roughly 10.9:1 AFR (0.75lambda) and a 5v of 58:1 AFR (4.* Lambda) this means that the useable range of the sensor is roughly 1.25v.
figuring that O2 data is linear, so 5v = 58, 2.5v = 29:1, 1.25v = 14.5:1 AFR so thus 0v to 1.25v is the only useful data for tuning, being 10.9AFR to 14.5AFR.

While most aftermarket O2 sensors and WBO2 integrated ECU's run 5v = 22.**:1 AFR, and 0v = 6:1 give or take..thus making much better use of the 5v reference and providing superior resolution and accuracy for air fuel ratio.

next, the OE Map Sensor seems to have a maximum psi limit of roughly 22-23PsiG, and you are unable to simply plug in a larger resolution MAP sensor (3bar, 3.5, 4) and change the Voltage table and offset to allow for more boost.

These are the major limitations of using Eurodyne which essentially gives you Partial but not full control of the OE ECU. While it works, it's not ideal for larger set-ups or those who want to run more boost.

Next, I have seen a few people on the 'zine and Vortex successfully integrate a Vi-Pec i88 / v88. However those who have done it successfully are scarce to share information as to how they made it work.

LinkECU, the sister company to the New Zealand based Vi-Pec sell the TTLink+/G4+ which appears to be the same as the Vi-Pec IPA-1 for a slightly reduced cost, I found the TT+ for about $1600-1700. Which is the same or similar cost to the 034 IIC that Hood is using. However, similar integration issue may occur and I'm not sure if the DBW is going to function correctly, might require a DBC conversion, as well as the issue with the tach signal which I discussed with Jeremy @034 earlier today.

034 Standalone, IIC (2C) is the only viable option as it allows full fuel/ignition/boost control, yet will require a DBC conversion and an additional module to keep the OE Tach signal working on the gauge cluster. However, the 034 system has not had any additional support since 2010 and thus appears to be a dying platform with little to no support.

Essentially what I'm looking for now is, what system should I use if cost were not an issue for the best integration utilizing some factory features (ESP) while maintaining optimal engine control.

I need something that will allow additional inputs and outputs, ie. MAP Sensors, Electronic Boost Control Solenoids, Air Intake Temp Sensors, Flex Fuel Sensors.

As for the issue of VVT being unsupported on the Vi-Pec/LinkECU, that can easily be overcome by running a trigger to the Cam chain tensioner to activate the "VVT" with a set of conditions such as an RPM >= and <= parameter.

Hoping to get some answers and support from those of you on here who have used systems outside of the OE ECU and how you integrated them into the car.

Thanks!

- Dave.

[B6A4GT3076R]

Option 1) LinkEcu TTLink (G4+)
http://www.linkecu.com/iPA1_2

The only available pnp ECU available which can work with the B6.

Option 2) Vi-Pec i88 i-Series Plugin
http://www.vi-pec.com/ecus/iseries__pluginecu

Are not making / producing any units for motorsports. Are focusing now on powersport units (jetski, snowski, etc). Refer back to Link G4+ Extreme.

Option 3) 034 Motorsports IIC Standalone + Tach adapter add on
Product has been removed from 034's website but is still available via Jeremy @ 034.
https://store.034motorsport.com/tach...tage-tach.html

I understand that you need to go backwards with this ECU and install cable accelerator and throttle.

Next, I have seen a few people on the 'zine and Vortex successfully integrate a Vi-Pec i88 / v88. However those who have done it successfully are scarce to share information as to how they made it work.

Radiator fan controls will need to be redone as the PWM method of the OE ECU is not controlled by the standalone

LinkECU, the sister company to the New Zealand based Vi-Pec sell the TTLink+/G4+ which appears to be the same as the Vi-Pec IPA-1 for a slightly reduced cost

Is the same unit through and through.

However, similar integration issue may occur and I'm not sure if the DBW is going to function correctly, might require a DBC conversion, as well as the issue with the tach signal which I discussed with Jeremy @034 earlier today.

No tach signal issues here. No DBC conversion required. Link TT ecu will control the e-throttle and provide all necessary feedback to cluster as required. You will, however, lose your trip computer calculations (avg mpg etc) as the original method of the OE ECU calculating injector pulse is not there any longer.

034 Standalone, IIC (2C) is the only viable option as it allows full fuel/ignition/boost control, yet will require a DBC conversion and an additional module to keep the OE Tach signal working on the gauge cluster. However, the 034 system has not had any additional support since 2010 and thus appears to be a dying platform with little to no support.

In addition, this is an older type of system which also required an upgrade to the ignition components (last I read about them which was back in 2011).

Essentially what I'm looking for now is, what system should I use if cost were not an issue for the best integration utilizing some factory features (ESP) while maintaining optimal engine control.

I don't think that ESP can be integrated in to the Link ECU although there is some documentation out on the link ecu forums which might point towards being able to (was only just reading about the ESP function yesterday so it could be plausible).

I need something that will allow additional inputs and outputs, ie. MAP Sensors, Electronic Boost Control Solenoids, Air Intake Temp Sensors, Flex Fuel Sensors.

IAT is already an input to the OE ECU and the Link ECU.
Link ECU has a 3bar on-board MAP sensor. Can use a separate INPUT for bigger if required (will need a custom calibration table setup for it which is a no brainer).
One thing about the Link ECU is that it's already setup with all the factory sensors and INPUTS/OUTPUTS so the N75 valve is/can be controlled. It is, however, a smarter move to change to a dedicated MAC valve setup for boost control which the Link ECU can also control.
Flex Fuel Sensors can be added without any issue. You would need to create 3d fuelling maps for this although the system is expandable as-is.

As for the issue of VVT being unsupported on the Vi-Pec/LinkECU, that can easily be overcome by running a trigger to the Cam chain tensioner to activate the "VVT" with a set of conditions such as an RPM >= and <= parameter.

No need to run additional triggers, sensors, solenoids, whatever. The VVT solenoid unit is already supported on the Link ECU and is switched OFF in the base map supplied by Link. By turning it ON, you can modify its operation as well as every other map to control the way the motor works.

Hoping to get some answers and support from those of you on here who have used systems outside of the OE ECU and how you integrated them into the car.

You will run in to an issue with the electro-thermostat on the Audi 06A 1.8T. It is a mapped thermostat and it will need to be swapped. I have done this and sent out a few units locally (Australia).

The other item of concern is the radiator fan control and the PWM method used by the OE ECU. This needs to be modified also (as mentioned earlier up in my reply).

And, forget about being able to pass your yearly inspections (that I have read so much about) with a standalone ECU. There won't be any OBD control of any Engine Module so you will fail if your US state requires this type of inspection, and unless you're going to pull the car off the road, then you might want to re-think your options based on this also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4EKpDmzqhw

Hit me up on fb if you want to talk more. Happy to share some info specifically.

https://www.facebook.com/michael.tsakmakis


Mike.

[MoparFreak69]

Although I am by no means an expert, I have read through quite a few threads on Nefmoto relating to people recoding almost every aspect of the Motronic system, allowing functionality much like you describe. I have read accounts of people remapping the MAF inputs to utilize an actual, in the manifold, MAP sensor reading 4+ bars of boost. There are also threads by people coding the ECU to interface with aftermarket WBO2's and modules to give them finer fueling resolution for better fuel control. Check the site out and do more reading. If anything maybe you can find contact information for someone who has gone down your path and can offer better insight as to which approach is best for you.


I personally prefer to retain the Motronic ECU simply for the functionality of the rest of the car. Keep in mind my cars are always built for daily duties along with go-faster duties so keeping things like factory gauges working is a high priority for me. If you're building a race oriented car, none of this may matter to you. Getting ECS functioning properly may not be a possibility simply due to the inter-communications that entwine the entire car. The CANBUS system can be a real pain to deal with, even with factory parts, let alone aftermarket.

Either way, good luck! You're probably going to need it, and patience, lots and lots of patience.

[B6A4Dave]

Mike!

First off, thank you so much for taking care of basically all of my questions!!! I am so thankful that someone with firsthand knowledge chimed in!!

I'll be sure to get at you on facebook, as you can imagine... I will have a lot of questions for you, especially considering you're running a B6.. and the same turbo as me, and manifold, however we have different injectors!!

Where did you source yours from? The only source I found was here on eBay

[B6A4Dave]

Although I am by no means an expert, I have read through quite a few threads on Nefmoto relating to people recoding almost every aspect of the Motronic system, allowing functionality much like you describe. I have read accounts of people remapping the MAF inputs to utilize an actual, in the manifold, MAP sensor reading 4+ bars of boost. There are also threads by people coding the ECU to interface with aftermarket WBO2's and modules to give them finer fueling resolution for better fuel control. Check the site out and do more reading. If anything maybe you can find contact information for someone who has gone down your path and can offer better insight as to which approach is best for you.


I personally prefer to retain the Motronic ECU simply for the functionality of the rest of the car. Keep in mind my cars are always built for daily duties along with go-faster duties so keeping things like factory gauges working is a high priority for me. If you're building a race oriented car, none of this may matter to you. Getting ECS functioning properly may not be a possibility simply due to the inter-communications that entwine the entire car. The CANBUS system can be a real pain to deal with, even with factory parts, let alone aftermarket.

Either way, good luck! You're probably going to need it, and patience, lots and lots of patience.

I had done some research into NefMoto several years ago but had found that they haven't had a lot of luck mapping and unlocking the B6 ECU, I know they have the B5 S4 almost fully explored but hadn't seen any progress on the B6.. Perhaps Its time I took another look.

However!! Now with the knowledge Mike shared about LinkECU... I might find myself going that route!

[B6A4GT3076R]

Where did you source yours from? The only source I found was here on eBay

Unsure how the ebay seller can market anywhere outside of their assigned region - Electronz (the manufacturer of the ECU) have resellers specifically for this reason and to have regional control of units.

I bought mine directly from my local registered reseller (performance workshop).

I'll chat with you more on fb.

[B6A4Dave]

Now for the next potential Issue.

Would anyone be able to tell me if the wiring harness between an 02-05 Golf/GTI/Jetta w/ AWP is any different from B6 1.8T?

Anybody have access to the ECU Pin outs and would be willing to share?

[B6A4GT3076R]

Would anyone be able to tell me if the wiring harness between an 02-05 Golf/GTI/Jetta w/ AWP is any different from B6 1.8T?

What exactly are you looking for?

[Human Garbage]

I had done some research into NefMoto several years ago but had found that they haven't had a lot of luck mapping and unlocking the B6 ECU, I know they have the B5 S4 almost fully explored but hadn't seen any progress on the B6.. Perhaps Its time I took another look.

However!! Now with the knowledge Mike shared about LinkECU... I might find myself going that route!

I agree with Freak. Try and keep the ME7.5 ECU if possible. Since you have been on there progress has been made on the B6. There is a community project that details DIY'ing it pretty nicely. There is the 2550mb limit (22.5 psi) due to the MAP sensor, but as he alludes there is a way around it. Just search for 5120 hack and you will see that. No files for that are freely available, but you will see the guys who have the ability to hook you up with one (cough..PRJ). Not sure what the cost would be, but it sure wouldn't be standalone money.Check it out before you commit to anything else at least... The stock Bosch kicks the crap out of any standalone just due to the inherent compatibility. Once you get used to the German acronyms its not that bad to deal with. Plus it is so powerful it blows my mind. There is a map for everything imaginable.

[20vturbo]

Any news here??

Sent from my SM-N920W8 using Tapatalk

[Ultrakd]

Any updates on this? I'm in the same boat of trying to go stand alone Agnes being some help.