Anyone running a Tuned F21 kit on their car without a FMIC?

[PsorianoPre99A4]

There was a debate on this on another group i'm involved in. I live in the PNW where it isn't really humid or hot here. Do I need a front mount or upgrade side mount intercooler when I tune my 99 AEB that has a F21 kit currently installed with a full neuspeed exhaust all the way back

[SynapticA4TQM]

Ambient heat does amplify the need for better cooling but it doesn't really negate it near as much. Can you get by without upgraded cooling, yes. The problem, the number one by product from compressing air is heat! Initially, heat robs you of power because the air is less dense and contains less oxygen for a strong combustion. As the heat increases it increases your chances of pre-detonation/knocking/pinging, i.e. damage.

Will it necessarily destroy anything if you don't do something with a better intercooler, not unless you get stupid one day and jack your boost up way higher than normal and try to go hooning around. In the end, no one would recommend it. You won't get the full potential out of your mods and can potentially hurt your engine.


Oozed from a pustule of thought somewhere within the recesses of my mind...

[Chrisw023]

Don't know where in the pnw you are but its 92 today here in Seattle in April lol, summer time you will definitely notice the heat soak without an upgraded ic of some sort.

[redline380]

For the occasional highway pull, no. For sustained track day use, absolutely. It really depends more on how you drive your car.

[PsorianoPre99A4]

Lol and thats what I said too. Some guy in the FB group was arguing with me that its not that hot in the PNW you won't need a front mount. I was thinking otherwise. I'm in the portland area and it was 90 today!

Don't know where in the pnw you are but its 92 today here in Seattle in April lol, summer time you will definitely notice the heat soak without an upgraded ic of some sort.

[PsorianoPre99A4]

I'm definitely the highway onramp pull guy. I never red line it, I just like to go to about 4-5 rpms. However, I do say that now, but when I get a tune I could get excited and will drive more spirited. :)

For the occasional highway pull, no. For sustained track day use, absolutely. It really depends more on how you drive your car.

[10kredline]

I was running it for a while, whenever going into boost, it would pull timing. Not so good but you can still drive it normally, just don't full throttle it.

[SacSantorin]

I would recommend just getting an ebay core for a couple hundred. I bought mine from CX racing for around $300 and it works great. No point in putting the money out to tune it and not reap the benefits! You'll be happier with a FMIC, I know i was. Not to mention getting the IC out of the hot engine bay

[PsorianoPre99A4]

Was thinking of getting the same, cx racing from eBay. Can you share where you had to do the cutting?

I would recommend just getting an ebay core for a couple hundred. I bought mine from CX racing for around $300 and it works great. No point in putting the money out to tune it and not reap the benefits! You'll be happier with a FMIC, I know i was. Not to mention getting the IC out of the hot engine bay

[Believer]

Personally I would not even mess around with the CXRacing FMIC when the Treadstone TR18t core can be had at such an affordable price.

I am running the TR18T core with my F21MF and could not be more happy with the performance Dave at Motoza has been able to get out of this turbo/FMIC combo. I am willing to provide any sort of data folks would want to see, such as intake temps over a few pulls, ignition advance, boost, etc etc.

[MetalMan]

Personally I would not even mess around with the CXRacing FMIC when the Treadstone TR18t core can be had at such an affordable price.

I am running the TR18T core with my F21MF and could not be more happy with the performance Dave at Motoza has been able to get out of this turbo/FMIC combo. I am willing to provide any sort of data folks would want to see, such as intake temps over a few pulls, ignition advance, boost, etc etc.

CX Racing one is "good enough" for the average F21 enthusiast IMO, been running it for more than 2 years now. It will likely require less trimming than the TR18T.
That said I'm working to max out my current F21 setup, and a TR18T will hopefully help me accomplish that soon.

[Chrisw023]

What piping kit are you running with the treadstone? Curious how well the eBay universal piping kit would work.

[Believer]

CX Racing one is "good enough" for the average F21 enthusiast IMO, been running it for more than 2 years now. It will likely require less trimming than the TR18T.
That said I'm working to max out my current F21 setup, and a TR18T will hopefully help me accomplish that soon.

Fair point - it no doubt will get the job done better, and in my speculation, probably better than a quality SMIC due to surface area for cooling.

What piping kit are you running with the treadstone? Curious how well the eBay universal piping kit would work.

I am running the CXracing B5 specific piping kit. It is not a universal kit; It comes with pieces that are pre bent and welded to route through the B5 setup. It came with all the silicon couplers, clamps and piping. The silicone piece that mates the output of the turbo to the first piece of pipe does not fit great, though. Other than that one caveat, i've been happy with it. It does cost a bit more than the universal kits though, unfortunately.

[10kredline]

CX Racing one is "good enough" for the average F21 enthusiast IMO, been running it for more than 2 years now. It will likely require less trimming than the TR18T.
That said I'm working to max out my current F21 setup, and a TR18T will hopefully help me accomplish that soon.

I agree with Metalman, the CX racing is good enough. I'm also running it and it's been more than 2 years, works great in this HOT California weather. Unless I have a bigger turbo than this F21, then I would get the TR18T. Not to mention, smaller and it barely fits behind the stock bumper with trimming. I had to hack the shit out of the bumper though and I can't imagine the TR18T because it is pretty big imo. But if you have an S4 bumper, then I would go with the Treadstone.

[Seerlah]

I got the tr18t to fit, keeping all my grills, fog lights, and a/c. I designed it, and used my car for measurements with this key point in mind. Specs for that unit are my choosing end results, and worked out how I wanted it.

People need to know that it also isn't about size or hp rating. It is about efficiency and some turbos run hotter than others. For example, my turbo is larger than the ft but the ft runs much hotter. It is simply a heat exchanger and can care less about horsepower. It cares about heat, and what it can and can't cool.

Good thread to read, and why I know it runs hot: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...rcooler+thread

[SacSantorin]

Personally I would not even mess around with the CXRacing FMIC when the Treadstone TR18t core can be had at such an affordable price.

I am running the TR18T core with my F21MF and could not be more happy with the performance Dave at Motoza has been able to get out of this turbo/FMIC combo. I am willing to provide any sort of data folks would want to see, such as intake temps over a few pulls, ignition advance, boost, etc etc.

I do agree with Believer that the TR18T core would have been a better investment, unfortunately I didn't learn of it until after I had ordered my CX racing FMIC. If i could go back and do it over again I'd go with the Treadstone. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with how the CX Racing has been performing but I'm curious if i would have gotten better performance out of the Treadstone. In regards to trimming, very minimal, my bumper was a bit messed up due to a wrong turn on a dark night which led to more trimming than normal.

[PsorianoPre99A4]

Cool with all this information, I think i'm deciding on the Treadstone tr18t. Can anyone share what piping is suggested? I saw the ones of eBay, but there is a variety of them. Which is recommended?

I also seen this one on treadstone as well, anyone know of this piping will work too? http://www.treadstoneperformance.com...ooler+Pipe+Kit

[10kredline]

I got the tr18t to fit, keeping all my grills, fog lights, and a/c. I designed it, and used my car for measurements with this key point in mind. Specs for that unit are my choosing end results, and worked out how I wanted it.

People need to know that it also isn't about size or hp rating. It is about efficiency and some turbos run hotter than others. For example, my turbo is larger than the ft but the ft runs much hotter. It is simply a heat exchanger and can care less about horsepower. It cares about heat, and what it can and can't cool.

Good thread to read, and why I know it runs hot: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...rcooler+thread

What I meant by having a bigger turbo for the treadstone was in terms of budget. If I spent more money on a bigger turbo, then I would definitely go with a better quality intercooler like the treadstone. But since it's only an FT, the cx-racing is sufficient. That's just my opinion. I totally agree with you though.

[PsorianoPre99A4]

So I finally got my group buy invoice for the tr18t from treadestone for $230 shipped for the core! Can someone link me the correct piping I should get on eBay that will fit fine? There is a big variety on eBay. Or like I said a couple posts above, will the universal treadstone kit work as well? Thank!

[MetalMan]

So I finally got my group buy invoice for the tr18t from treadestone for $230 shipped for the core! Can someone link me the correct piping I should get on eBay that will fit fine? There is a big variety on eBay. Or like I said a couple posts above, will the universal treadstone kit work as well? Thank!

Received and paid my TR18T invoice yesterday as well.

"Will the universal Treadstone piping kit work?"
Depends on your ability to make it work. I could make it work; I have lots of experience with FMIC piping for these cars, and a way to put beads on the ends of pipes. If I didn't already have FMIC piping I would start fresh with a universal piping kit.

CX Racing piping kit:
http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant...tegory_Code=B5
Kind of expensive, I think it used to be cheaper. Will require tweaking.

This one might work:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-Alumin...tSMTyr&vxp=mtr
Would require 2.0" --> 2.5" reducing couplers at least.

[PsorianoPre99A4]

What do you mean by putting beads at the end of the pipes? DO you have a picture of yours with your bumper off? So I can see how you routed it

[QUOTE=MetalMan;11572021]Received and paid my TR18T invoice yesterday as well.

[MetalMan]

Beads at the ends of the pipes allow something physical for silicone couplers & hose clamps to grip onto, to prevent the silicone couplers from blowing off. A straight piece of pipe doesn't do a good job of retaining silicone couplers.
http://www.nopistons.com/uploads/post-3-1048355746.jpg

Keep in mind I've got CX Racing piping, and have customized it a fair amount. This routing clears the fog lights on a stock bumper, but definitely still requires trimming of bumper, bumper grills, bumper valence.

These are just pictures from my Photobucket that I took in the past:

[PsorianoPre99A4]

Right on, thanks man! I also noticed in your other photo bucket pictures you wrapped the test pipe up in heat wrap, that really help with dissipating the heat?

I also just picked up the universal kit on treadstone, I called them, and they said it should fit with whats supplied with the kit. Now I just need to get some T clamps

[MetalMan]

Right on, thanks man! I also noticed in your other photo bucket pictures you wrapped the test pipe up in heat wrap, that really help with dissipating the heat?

Maybe? lol. I was given the heat wrap for free, so I decided that while the HFC was out (engine was also out), I would wrap it. Figured it couldn't hurt, and perhaps might lower the engine bay temp.

I also just picked up the universal kit on treadstone, I called them, and they said it should fit with whats supplied with the kit. Now I just need to get some T clamps

You'll notice in my pics, most clamps are worm-gear clamps. They are made by a company called ABA in Sweden, and are EXCELLENT clamps. They have rolled edges, the grooves for the worm gear don't penetrate to the underside of the clamp, and their band is narrower than a T-bolt clamp which provides better sealing in my experience.

I would highly recommend these clamps over T-bolt clamps.

[PsorianoPre99A4]

Good to know, thank you!


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