C7 S6 Stage 3 - 10s. :-)

[TurtleHaste]

First night hitting the track after my stage 3 upgrade. :-) I'm freaking happy.

2014 Audi S6
Stage 3

10.862
130.14

60' was 1.733

I haven't left yet. Maybe one or two more runs and see what happens.

ATCO Dragway.


Edit (for more detail *mod list*)

Stock wheels 20" black optics
Nitto 555 Extreme 255/35/r20
(not R compound)

Stage 3 (RS7 turbo upgrade)
AMS turbo cooler
Roc-Euro intake
Milltech Downpipes/Exhaust (valvesonic)
APR tune
APR RS7 shift map (thanks APR)

First run was 11.174 @ 128.37
Second 10 mins later 10.862 @ 130.14

Photo :-)




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[DoughBoyFreshLV]

First night hitting the track after my stage 3 upgrade. :-) I'm freaking happy.

2014 Audi S6
Stage 3

10.862
130.14

60' was 1.733

I haven't left yet. Maybe one or two more runs and see what happens.

ATCO Dragway.

Photo :-)




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Nice!

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[pawels1]

Perfect love that numbers

[redrocker55]

Wow. Congrats man. That. Is. Fast.

[F16HTON]

What was lined up next to you on the 10.8 pass?

[Dguth]

Awesome. Exactly the numbers I want to hit with my install. Thanks for the update!!!


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[TurtleHaste]

What was lined up next to you on the 10.8 pass?

An ECS supercharged C7 vette.

Here's my second 10 sec slip of the night. Same vette to my right.

I had a worse 60 foot and felt a delay before my shift at the end of 3rd into 4th. This thing has 10.7s in it. For sure!

[TurtleHaste]

Congrats on being the first S6/7 in the 10's!

Was this the 104 octane program? What kind of fuel are you running? VP MS109 or Sunoco GT260 Plus?

Did you make any changes from your first pass (11.1) to the next pass (10.8)?

Where's the car shifting with the RS7 turbo maps? 6800?

Yep. 104 octane.
Sonoco GT260 Plus.
From 11.1 to 10.8 only change was a manual shift out of mid 1st to limit wheel spin, and to avoid the dreaded delayed shift from 1st to 2nd.

I thought I'd get a worse trap because I ran so soon after the first run. No time to cool down but was pleasantly surprised. :-)

Thanks man.

Oh and I think it's shifting right at about 6700-6800 rpm.

[TurtleHaste]

And getting faster.




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[mwmaroney1]

Yep. 104 octane.
Sonoco GT260 Plus.
From 11.1 to 10.8 only change was a manual shift out of mid 1st to limit wheel spin, and to avoid the dreaded delayed shift from 1st to 2nd.

I thought I'd get a worse trap because I ran so soon after the first run. No time to cool down but was pleasantly surprised. :-)

Thanks man.

Oh and I think it's shifting right at about 6700-6800 rpm.

So just curious about the shifting, I haven't really read any definitive guide on the best way to shift our cars. You use manual mode and let it automatically shift or are manually shifting at a specific Rpm? I'm assuming you have the tcu tune?

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[HeelBuff]

Love it. I'll bet you are the life of the party at the track tonight. Everyone loves a sleeper.

[TurtleHaste]

So just curious about the shifting, I haven't really read any definitive guide on the best way to shift our cars. You use manual mode and let it automatically shift or are manually shifting at a specific Rpm? I'm assuming you have the tcu tune?

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Basically in first gear I use launch control, it doesn't really matter what rpm so long as I manually shift from first into second instead of letting the transmission do it. Then I let it auto shift for the most part all the way after. With the exception of my last run, 10.7 at almost 131 mph. This was manual the whole way aside from being in S mode for the launch control.

[TurtleHaste]

Love it. I'll bet you are the life of the party at the track tonight. Everyone loves a sleeper.

Oh yeah, people seem surprised. And I met a fellow Audi owner, George with an Audi S8. He ran a 10.8 on an APR stage 1 tune. These cars are beasts. To all those who are afraid of hurting the DSG, it seems to love torqu. I say bring it! :-)

[mwmaroney1]

Basically in first gear I use launch control, it doesn't really matter what rpm so long as I manually shift from first into second instead of letting the transmission do it. Then I let it auto shift for the most part all the way after. With the exception of my last run, 10.7 at almost 131 mph. This was manual the whole way aside from being in S mode for the launch control.

So your fastest run you were manually shifting the whole time, what Rpm?

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[HeelBuff]

Keep running until they shut it down. DA getting better as it gets later.

[TurtleHaste]

So far, yes. But that's only because I have some hesitation about that delay I sometimes feel. I believe if there is no delay, and I let the TCU shift on its own, it might end up with the better time, but this way, I don't have to worry about that delay and I can pretty much be guaranteed into the 10s each time. It's weird, 10s never felt so easy.


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[TurtleHaste]

Keep running until they shut it down. DA getting better as it gets later.

Unfortunately, I had to leave just now. I have to meet someone. I had a great night though, and I believe 10.6 would be easy to hit tonight. The car keeps getting faster and these are definitely not the best runs, nor 60 foots. With any better rubber, a lighter wheel, and simply a good run, guaranteed 10.5's. I can feel it.

[kouzman]

Congrats man!

It seems that Atco always gives great times for Audis! I have to try it myself too at some point!

Some now indeed the stage 3 s6 is as fast as a stage 1 rs7! The 130+ mph trap attests to the power of the car!

[TurtleHaste]

Congrats man!

It seems that Atco always gives great times for Audis! I have to try it myself too at some point!

Some now indeed the stage 3 s6 is as fast as a stage 1 rs7! The 130+ mph trap attests to the power of the car!

Thanks! Yeah, I have to admit I didn't expect getting below 10.9. But that's because I never ran the car after the new set up. I've been on it for several months now and I've been pretty hard on it. I expected tens if I was lucky, but so far I got three 10 second runs back to back. Even when I got a delay in the shift, I ran a 10.9. The last run, 10.74 was my best 60 foot, but still in the 1.7's. And that's with me early shifting into 2nd. I can now drive home with a big smile on my face, and just a little note, the Roc-Euro didn't do half bad. :-)

[S4Per]

Way to go!!! You must be on cloud 9. :)
And that's just great news for the platform!

[MadAboutCars]

Thanks! Yeah, I have to admit I didn't expect getting below 10.9. But that's because I never ran the car after the new set up. I've been on it for several months now and I've been pretty hard on it. I expected tens if I was lucky, but so far I got three 10 second runs back to back. Even when I got a delay in the shift, I ran a 10.9. The last run, 10.74 was my best 60 foot, but still in the 1.7's. And that's with me early shifting into 2nd. I can now drive home with a big smile on my face, and just a little note, the Roc-Euro didn't do half bad. :-)

Go, Turtle, go. Amazing result, we'll done! Kudos to APR, as well.

[playwithonehand]

So proud of brother!
You are the current world record holder for C7 S6/S7!!

Btw what rpm did you use for launch control?

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[kouzman]

Thanks! Yeah, I have to admit I didn't expect getting below 10.9. But that's because I never ran the car after the new set up. I've been on it for several months now and I've been pretty hard on it. I expected tens if I was lucky, but so far I got three 10 second runs back to back. Even when I got a delay in the shift, I ran a 10.9. The last run, 10.74 was my best 60 foot, but still in the 1.7's. And that's with me early shifting into 2nd. I can now drive home with a big smile on my face, and just a little note, the Roc-Euro didn't do half bad. :-)

Are you coming to the Show n Go next Sunday at Etown? I will be there. The last two events weren't very crowded. You might be able to get a shitload of runs.

[TurtleHaste]

Are you coming to the Show n Go next Sunday at Etown? I will be there. The last two events weren't very crowded. You might be able to get a shitload of runs.

If I have time I'd love to come by for that. I'll have to play it by ear for now and see how the upcoming weekend shapes up. It's always great to meet other owners and make some good runs.

Just what his tranny needs.

I'm not seeing any slip yet so personally I'm thinking why hold back? Bad case scenario, I'll need new clutch packs but no indication of that yet. As far as I know, if it's holding strong at nearly 131 mph traps, I've got more left on power to be made. Everything else is about hooking up.

I think I'm being realistic thinking the car has 10.5s in it on a near perfect run (as it sits). Any more power (tune or otherwise), lighter wheels, etc... I expect it would potentially be a low 10 sec car without ever needing to change from RS turbos. I'm mostly happy for the moment. Just enjoying the ride now until I get the inclination to push it. Already have tuners willing to custom tune my setup to gain more. It will always come down to the big question. How much will the tranny hold? I'm happy with 10.7s on a crap 60' for the moment.

[ECP]

Impressive! Is this car located in north jersey and work performed in mountainside?

[Loe]

130mph trap, now that is a real indicator of that power! Nice bump, that's almost 4-5mph faster than what a stage 2 currently traps.

You're 1/8-1/4 trap delta of 27.68mph shows great top-end power in reserve as well (most cars are in the 22-23mph range, cars with good top-end usually are in the 24-26mph range, cars with great top-ends usually are 27+mph range).

[Sean@APR]

Nice time! Congrats!

Come to waterfest and I'll buy some beers to celebrate. :)

[dogears]

How far from Cherry Hill are you? Atco is my home track. I would love to mod my 2016 S6, but it is leased and has two years left. Young me would have done it in a second!

[TurtleHaste]

I would think the 10.7 was already the perfect run for your current setup. It was already your quickest and fastest run of the night and the DA was negative 1400'! It doesn't get much better than that. Now that's not to say you can't go quicker if you make changes, especially in the traction/tire department. I would love for you to add power and push harder. Be the guinea pig and let me know if the tranny explodes before I go down a similar mod path. :D

Just curious, how much do you weigh and did you remove the spare?

It wasn't the perfect run. Maybe the perfect DA. Haha. I know it wasn't the perfect run. Here's how I know.

-1 because my best run was me manually shifting all the gears so those variables in shifts cannot be ideal. I'm human. I make my first and only (all manual) pass ever at the track and get the best time. I doubt perfection.

-2 because the car is capable of lower 60' foots when all goes right. I've run a lower 60' back when I was stage 1.

-3 It's just me picking a random launch RPM and seeing what happens right now. So it's too early to throw the hands up and say "that's the best she can do". Haha I know better.

-4 the 1-2 shift was just me picking a moment things felt right for the car to shift. Certainly not scientific. I've had better seat of the pants 1-2 shifts than those runs. Traction wasn't great on this car and I couldn't push it 100% in 1st gear else I'd lose traction on my 255/35/r20 street tires.

-5 DA was improving through the night. I was getting a feel for the car. I ran 11.1, (crap launch and huge delay in shift. Trapped lower because of the shift delay.) Then 10.8, 10.9, 10.7. I left before the best DA of the evening.

I have no problem using this car. It's not a garage queen. If that makes me a guinea pig, then awesome. More community gains.

Also yes. Forgot to mention. My spare was out.

I've got a trick up my sleeve. No tune involved. Should net both a higher trap and better 60 foot. I'll see if I do this any time soon and get it out there.

Hint (I shift into 5th) before the trap. 5th is an overdrive. :-)

Impressive! Is this car located in north jersey and work performed in mountainside?

Thanks, It spends time in Jersey but travels often. Been a while since work was performed but the RS7 turbo shift maps are the most recent update for me and definitely worth it.

130mph trap, now that is a real indicator of that power! Nice bump, that's almost 4-5mph faster than what a stage 2 currently traps.

You're 1/8-1/4 trap delta of 27.68mph shows great top-end power in reserve as well (most cars are in the 22-23mph range, cars with good top-end usually are in the 24-26mph range, cars with great top-ends usually are 27+mph range).

Thanks for the info. I never did look into it that way. I believe closing the 1/8th gap by launching better I would trap higher in the 1/8th and subsequently the 1/4th. 130.9 isn't bad but I know it would trap higher if the shifting is perfected. (Even without a perfect launch)

Nice time! Congrats!

Come to waterfest and I'll buy some beers to celebrate. :)

Would love that. I might take you up on that.

How far from Cherry Hill are you? Atco is my home track. I would love to mod my 2016 S6, but it is leased and has two years left. Young me would have done it in a second!

I'm about 45 mins away several days a week. I think you'll be happy with a stage 1 or 2 for a while. It should hold you off until you want to own outright. :-)


Here are the different slips from slowest to fastest:







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[Dguth]

Hey Turtle. At what rpm did you launch at?


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[GTS21]

Wow, great time. Sounds like you could teach Vol 4.0T a thing or two.

[TurtleHaste]

Hey Turtle. At what rpm did you launch at?

Different launches different RPM. I think I launched about 4500 rpm the best time with obvious wheel spin. I could feel it. 5000-5500 rpm was perfect with the stage 1 tune. Now I have to re-learn and match traction with the tire, and extra power.

Wow, great time. Sounds like you could teach Vol 4.0T a thing or two.

I'm here just to share. I don't have beef with Vol 4.0T. As far as I can see he has a lot energy and might rub people the wrong way but he does contribute to the conversation and make for some interesting chatter. In the end we are all enthusiasts with differing personalities and passion levels. We have our natures and it's to be expected some will butt heads. Thanks to Vol and anyone else who gets their ride out there and tests these things out. If I can help him out, I will. I'm sure when the time comes, people will do the same for me. Ultimately we all spend considerable amount of time learning whether we admit it or not. I sift through the bs and try to decipher the useful data from the banter. When I look through it, even those who get caught up in the fighting still have something of value to add and maybe I can use it one day.

:-)

[playwithonehand]

Turtlehastle definitely has room to get better 60ft and 1/4mile
He said his launch at 4500rpm thats too high in my opinion.

To get 1.57 to 1.60 I did 28psi all 4 and launch at 3000-3500rpm anything higher I get wheel spin.

131mph 10.6 is 100% doable and 10.5 will be hard but will be done in a near perfect run.

[TurtleHaste]

It's a lot easier to hook consistently at stage 1 power levels than at stage 3. Pulling a good 60' with stage 1 doesn't necessarily mean you should be able to run at least that number with stage 3. It gets harder to get that power down to the ground.

When you say you're "picking a random launch RPM", are you referring to picking one of the three preset LC settings available to you with the APR TCU? Or can you have more than 3?

What's the trick you have up your sleeve? Taller tires? Using manual mode to shift higher? I hope you're not thinking about starting off in 2nd gear lol.

Even though 5th is an overdrive gear, 4th to 5th gear is still pretty close ratio.

Yeah I'm sure it will be harder to launch with these power levels especially with the same tire. But not easy isn't the same as impossible. One thing to note, all passes of 10.9, 10.8, 10.7. They all had 1.7x 60 foots. If I got that down to a 1.6x that's part of it right there. That will also allow me to pick up more speed in the traps by a tiny margin.

As for my launch, yes it's the three you have to pick when doing the TCU tune. So for the moment I was going between 4500 and 5000 rpm. I'll have to double check later to see which exact ones my three options are. The highest felt way too high, while the lowest felt way too low to modulate properly and ease into throttle at the right time when the light turns green. Feels like the pressures on you at the light haha. The middle was about where I tried to stay but I might need to flash the lower set of three to allow my highest setting to be much lower for the new power levels. Not quite random but I did try different modes and always got 1.7x second 60 foots.

I'll share my little plan later on but yes a tire (and light rim) will be one of a couple options I'll have to keep it in 4th at the trap and be lower on the 60' foot to boot. Worth a couple tenths don't you think?

[TurtleHaste]

Turtlehastle definitely has room to get better 60ft and 1/4mile
He said his launch at 4500rpm thats too high in my opinion.

To get 1.57 to 1.60 I did 28psi all 4 and launch at 3000-3500rpm anything higher I get wheel spin.

131mph 10.6 is 100% doable and 10.5 will be hard but will be done in a near perfect run.

I think you're right. It's going to be hell of hard but I believe as it sits with a near perfect run, 10.5 is "possible". I need to get tire pressures worked out and also get a better tire in general. I've always wanted a lighter set of wheels for the car. I have a few plans. I know I could get more power with a custom tune but I do like having a popular vendor to go to if I ever have an issue. I know APR kept things safe although I believe for a car without IAT issues, they would have squeezed out more on the universal tune if it weren't for some other fears in the tranny and engine cooling department. I always have that option if I want to go that route. But if APR released a more powerful stage 3 tune for S6/S7 cars with turbo coolers (something that closes the gap on an RS7 stage 2, I'd get it in a minute.

Next couple mods...

- Lower RPM TCU launch settings
- Lighter wheels
- better rubber (& slightly taller tire)
- find sweet spot air pressure

I think staying in 4th is significant enough to be measurable but let's me forget about having to shift manually that last moment before the trap. I just want to coast through it knowing I'm on a beneficial ratio for acceleration.

Launching right. Staying out of overdrive. (No clue how much lighter wheels will affect trap speeds if any but it can't hurt as far as physics tell me). What's a theoretical 10+ lb/corner drop in wheel weight do for folks at the quarter mile? Anything worth while?

[TurtleHaste]

If you get your 60' down to 1.6X, you should go at least 10.6X. From all my experiences one tenth in the 60' is more than a tenth in the 1/4 but not quite 2 tenths. I'd say 1.5 tenths in the 1/4 mile is about right.

Most people say that when you hook better your trap speed actually goes down. From my experiences though I've noticed just the opposite. I think if you hook your trap speed will in fact go up.

If you want to keep it in 4th to avoid the extra shift to 5th, you'll need a taller tire. The problem with that is you're effectively lowering your final drive ratio. Now check out the dyno sheet for your stage 3 104 octane program. It makes power all the way to the 6800 RPM fuel shut off. Looking at the dyno graph, I think you'd want a shorter tire, not taller. This is so you can stay in the meat of the powerband longer. But then the extra shift will still hurt you. It's a double edged sword.

Now that you're beer buddies with Sean@APR, I'd try to convince him to do a custom TCU tune for you. If you could have them raise the shift points and/or rev limiter to say 6900-6950, that may be just the ticket. The S6/7 valve springs are the same part number as the RS7 and the pistons/rods are the same too except for the different piston crowns which is just for compression ratio purposes, so I think you'll be ok revving it the extra 100-150 RPMs. See if you can also get them to flash your ECM with the stronger software they did for NGP/Spero before dialing it back. Then add drag radials but make sure they're no shorter than what you have now otherwise you'll have to once again shift into 5th. Do all this and I see a 10.3-10.4 in your future.

I'd love a couple hundred rpm (buffer) to keep me from shifting that last stretch.

Also yes my lower 60 foots even if a little lower, are just bringing up my trap speeds in the 1/8th (and 1/4th) But the faster I go there, the more time I'll have to spend in 5th if I don't solve the tire / rpm at final trap issue.

[TurtleHaste]

It not as easy to custom tune an S6 with RS7 turbos and your mods and achieve excellent results as you think or have been led to believe. The further you deviate from OEM, the more challenging it gets to tune. Some self-proclaimed "tuners" don't even know where important maps are located or what they do. In my opinion APR is the best tuner for these cars in the country. They have some very talented developers working there. They could be making even more power with these platforms if they didn't have to worry about catering to the masses. Ie, they have to make sure their customer's engine doesn't go boom when he uses the 100 octane program on 93 octane like somebody we know who used to own a stage 3 S6 lol.

What do you mean by "turbo coolers?" Are you talking about something that works better than the AMS kit you have now?

People on the forums will typically say that lightweight wheels are worth 3x the dead weight. So if you lose 40lbs in wheels, you're effectively losing 120lbs. Unfortunately it's never worked out this way from my experiences. I've never really had much luck with lightweight wheels. You'd think it would have to help but I've seen some wacky stuff. Removing weight can affect engine load which in turn can lower the boost. I've also seen overall timing get screwy from less weight.

People often obsess over wheel weights yet overlook tire weights. Keep in mind that the stock tires on the S6 are very very light assuming you have the Pirellis like me. They're something like 25lbs for a 20" tire! When you go to a stickier and likely wider tire, you're going to wind up with a heavier tire. This will at least partially offset the lighter wheels that you install.

As for 5th gear, it doesn't really matter if it's an OD gear or not. What's more important is the ratio drop in between gears. This is why you often hear about factory transmissions in sports cars and the like being advertised as "close ratio". That means the ratio spacing from one gear to the next is close. What you don't want is huge gear ratio drops from one gear to the next. In the case of the S6, 4th to 5th gear is pretty close so even though 5th is an overdrive gear, you're still pretty high in the power band after shifting there, especially with your 6800 RPM shift point!

So just a side-note. That dyno was on the old shift map. It wouldn't rev past 6400 rpm.

Then APR gave me the RS7 turbo shift map file which solved that issue. I do believe this helped though because there's a small rise and drop in the power in those areas and it keeps each gear roughly in that hump longer over the averaged out acceleration.

I found a wheel that's roughly 18 lbs. in a 19 inch form that can clear the 400mm setup.

I don't want a wide tire, just something slightly taller for a little sidewall action which generally helps straight-line acceleration when pressures are lowered and of course for my trap scenario. If I do this I think I could keep tire weights low enough to make use of the lighter wheel but I never see real data performed on wheel weight in the way I'd have performed the tests. overall fun I ever do it, I'd be interested to see if rotational mass reduction shows significant gains in trap speeds. If it equates to a tenth or two in the quarter, I'd say it's worth it but I just don't see anyone doing strict tests to find out. Trap comparisons would be nice to see actually.

Funny you mention you're on the Pirellis. That's what I was on when I got my low 1.6x 60 foot run. On the same wheel. Maybe they hold better on the launch. I'm now where I need to think R compounds or special launch RPMs to get by. On the street, if it's cold, Forget 1st and 2nd gear. Wish we had more wheel options for this car. But brakes... :-)

The 20 inch 5 spoke black optics for S6s, and S7s are 30.4 lbs as measured by another member. That's a porky wheel.

[Loe]

It's hard to compare a 60ft time from one track even to another and really is more of a comparison for same day runs. With that being said, at this point you really should be counting in the hundredth's in terms of 60ft time improvements to overall 1/4mile time; I've found that for every .010 of a second you shave from the 60ft, you lose approximately .065 seconds in the 1/4 mile and gain .8mph for the same track days (meaning if you run 1.65 / 10.75 on Tuesday, you wont be running 1.64 / 10.635 on Thursday, but you could have ran 10.635 on that Tuesday if you dropped it to 1.64).

In comparison to drag radials versus street tires, it throws off the calculation a bit as the initial grip will affect E.T.'s more than traps, however I agree with Vol, traps are affected and I've always found that if I lower my 60ft's and E.T.'s, that my traps will normally go up if I run down the same side of the lane (there are minute differences between running the left and right lanes believe it or not).

Vol, keep me posted on Thursday, would love to see it in action, plus I can bring out the Ross-Tech to log.

[F16HTON]

Not to discredit Vol's accomplishments, it would be interesting to see if the 11.0 could get backed up at Bradenton.

Some folks believe that PBIR is a much faster track than others.

[F16HTON]

That is true too, many believe ATCO is one of the fastest if not the fastest track in the country. In my personal opinion with over 30 years of drag racing experience, traction>DA any day of the week.