Misfires. Swapped coils and plugs. More misfires.

[musasabi]

While I was in Michigan for a funeral, the RS4 started acting up. I had observed a slightly rough idle and a CEL every now and again for a couple of weeks, but nothing that was overly concerning. However, on March 19th, shit got real. After a handful of short (<20 mile) drives throughout the day, I had the car off for two or three hours, then back on for a quick ~10 mile drive to get some pizza. 20 minutes later, pizza in hand, I got into the car and headed back to the hotel. However, after less than a minute of running time, I felt a truly rough idle and it got to the point where it was even rough under acceleration. Scared the shit out of me. The CEL started flashing and I babied it back to the hotel.

I left the car off for four or five hours, and went to get this scan:

Address 01: Engine        Labels: 079-910-560-BNS1.lbl
   Part No SW: 8E1 910 560 J    HW: 8E1 907 560 
   Component: 4.2L V8/4V FSI     ª0010  
   Revision: 57H26---    Serial number:               
   Coding: 01040009180F0160
   Shop #: WSC 44320 000 1048576
   VCID: 2D5A1034B4B86549F59-8078

2 Faults Found:
012424 - Starter Relay 
               P3088 - 001 - Electrical Malfunction - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 83
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 124246 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 9.0°C
                    Temperature: 17.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 11.049 V

006435 - Please Check DTC Memory of ECU Number 2 
               P1923 - 008 - 
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 139275 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 44.0°C
                    Temperature: 39.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 11.303 V

Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 11: Engine II        Labels: 079-910-560-BNS2.lbl
   Part No SW: 8E1 910 560 J    HW: 8E1 907 560 
   Component: 4.2L V8/4V FSI     ª0010  
   Revision: 57H26---    Serial number:               
   Coding: 01040009180F0160
   Shop #: WSC 44320 000 1048576
   VCID: 2D5A1034B4B86549F59-8078

5 Faults Found:
000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected 
               P0300 - 001 -  - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 5
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 137199 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1533 /min
                    Load: 46.3 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: -3.0°C
                    Temperature: 1.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.970 V

000773 - Cylinder 5 
               P0305 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 5
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 137199 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1533 /min
                    Load: 46.3 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: -3.0°C
                    Temperature: 1.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.970 V

000770 - Cylinder 2 
               P0302 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 139220 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2775 /min
                    Load: 21.6 %
                    Speed: 54.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 48.0°C
                    Temperature: 30.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.716 V

000771 - Cylinder 3 
               P0303 - 001 - Misfire Detected
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 139263 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1790 /min
                    Load: 20.4 %
                    Speed: 14.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 79.0°C
                    Temperature: 37.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.589 V

000772 - Cylinder 4 
               P0304 - 001 - Misfire Detected
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 139265 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 773 /min
                    Load: 22.3 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 92.0°C
                    Temperature: 34.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.462 V


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I fired up the car a few hours later and the CEL was gone. The gently rough idle persisted, but CEL. On the 250 mile journey home, the CEL came back, but nothing nasty under throttle, nor any blinking CEL.

Once home, I bought myself a new battery (it was pretty far gone anyway) and a new set of coils and plugs and dropped them in. The four plugs and coils closest to the firewall all had varying degrees of corrosion and gunk on them, but the front four looked cleanish. I have to assume that this is the first time they've been changed.

I fired the car up... and it got worse. I decided to drive it around for a bit and noticed a whole slew of screwy behavior. Poor thing. When I'd get off the accelerator and start coasting when approaching a stop in neutral, it'd rev up to ~1,600rpm and hold there until either I slowed to under 5mph or until I pressed the clutch pedal down. And yes, there were many blinking CELs to be had on and off again for the ~5 miles I had it out.

Finally this afternoon, I got around to scanning it again, and got this:

Address 01: Engine        Labels: 079-910-560-BNS1.lbl
   Part No SW: 8E1 910 560 J    HW: 8E1 907 560 
   Component: 4.2L V8/4V FSI     ª0010  
   Revision: 57H26---    Serial number:               
   Coding: 01040009180F0160
   Shop #: WSC 44320 000 1048576
   VCID: 2D5A1034B4B86556E5-8078

3 Faults Found:
012424 - Starter Relay 
               P3088 - 001 - Electrical Malfunction - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 124246 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 15.0°C
                    Temperature: 21.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 11.557 V

005634 - Power Supply Terminal 30 
               P1602 - 002 - Voltage too Low - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100010
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 0 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 0.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 0.000 V

006435 - Please Check DTC Memory of ECU Number 2 
               P1923 - 008 - 
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 139876 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 11.0°C
                    Temperature: 15.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 11.303 V

Readiness: 0010 1100

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 11: Engine II        Labels: 079-910-560-BNS2.lbl
   Part No SW: 8E1 910 560 J    HW: 8E1 907 560 
   Component: 4.2L V8/4V FSI     ª0010  
   Revision: 57H26---    Serial number:               
   Coding: 01040009180F0160
   Shop #: WSC 44320 000 1048576
   VCID: 2D5A1034B4B86556E5-8078

8 Faults Found:
000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected 
               P0300 - 001 -  - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 137199 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 834 /min
                    Load: 18.8 %
                    Speed: 32.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 84.0°C
                    Temperature: 49.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.716 V

000773 - Cylinder 5 
               P0305 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 137199 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 834 /min
                    Load: 18.8 %
                    Speed: 32.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 84.0°C
                    Temperature: 49.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.716 V

000770 - Cylinder 2 
               P0302 - 001 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 139220 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2775 /min
                    Load: 21.6 %
                    Speed: 54.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 48.0°C
                    Temperature: 30.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.716 V

000771 - Cylinder 3 
               P0303 - 001 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 139263 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1790 /min
                    Load: 20.4 %
                    Speed: 14.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 79.0°C
                    Temperature: 37.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.589 V

005634 - Power Supply Terminal 30 
               P1602 - 002 - Voltage too Low - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100010
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 0 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 0.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 0.000 V

000775 - Cylinder 7 
               P0307 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 139864 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 772 /min
                    Load: 16.9 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 63.0°C
                    Temperature: 26.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.970 V

000774 - Cylinder 6 
               P0306 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 139864 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 784 /min
                    Load: 15.7 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 69.0°C
                    Temperature: 30.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.716 V

000776 - Cylinder 8 
               P0308 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 139864 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 803 /min
                    Load: 20.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 74.0°C
                    Temperature: 33.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.716 V


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oy...

So, next steps for diagnosis? I did triple check again today that the coils and their connectors are snug, but other than that, I'm at a loss.

[mk420thae]

More than likely a fuel injector.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[Al Sline]

I'm no expert but i did have a similar issue with the throttle hanging between shifts... It was the clutch module 60$ part


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[musasabi]

More than likely a fuel injector.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

How one does test? I mean, I'll Google it, but if you've got a handy link or feel like typing a few lines... ;)

[seishuku]

Did you ever get around to checking the long/short term fuel trims? Would help determining if it's a fueling issue.

[mk420thae]

Swapping it like the coils.. But you have to remove the intake manifold.. So you may as well replace them. They are pretty common to fail. I had to replace one of my last month. Went ahead and did all 8

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[musasabi]

I'm no expert but i did have a similar issue with the throttle hanging between shifts... It was the clutch module 60$ part


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Huh. Interesting. If it didn't manifest 100% right now in correlation with the misfires, I'd follow that lead. Suffice it to say, I'll follow the lead if the throttle hang keeps on after I fix the misfires.

[musasabi]

Did you ever get around to checking the long/short term fuel trims? Would help determining if it's a fueling issue.

Oh, nope. Forgot. Whoops. =D

Swapping it like the coils.. But you have to remove the intake manifold.. So you may as well replace them. They are pretty common to fail. I had to replace one of my last month. Went ahead and did all 8

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Ah, sure thing. Time to look up prices...

[musasabi]

Ouch. $200 each.

Well... That's on the list.

[Quattrors4]

faulty ecu relay

[mk420thae]

Ouch. $200 each.

Well... That's on the list.

You can find them cheaper. Can't remember the site but they were a little over $50 each. Made by Hitachi. Same company that makes the OEM ones

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[Al Sline]

Rock auto for the injectors 57$


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[musasabi]

Did you ever get around to checking the long/short term fuel trims? Would help determining if it's a fueling issue.

Rock auto for the injectors 57$


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This?

[SQ RS4]

Why not remove the original injectors and send them out to be flow tested, cleaned, and flow matched?

Car would be down for a couple days, but it will say you some $, while allowing you to retain the original injectors.

Check the following thread for more info:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...or-Maintenance

[koolade9]

based on the frequency, I'd say it's not the injectors, but something electrical (relays - I've been preaching this a lot lately). The frequency just doesn't fit injectors, nor does the fact you're seeing it across multiple cylinders. Maybe a HP fuel pump, but I'd guess electrical...

[komseh]

Clearly it's the JHM tune.

[Al Sline]

Weird the price really was 57 per injector!!! Your best bet is to get them cleaned and flow matched... I believe its less than 30$ a piece



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[S4Caster]

I noticed in your first scan it mentioned ECU 2. I recently had a short in ECU 2 and found a used one (thanks 65vettec6) as new is really pricy, and that fixed similar problems to what you described...misfires under acceleration, rough idling, blinking then steady CEL, etc. Not saying that's it, but worth noting. I actually had a remanufactured ECU 2 (X in the part number) that was in there, so there must have been previous problems in my car. Hopefully the original part number ECU will keep further problems from happening. Fingers crossed. GL.

[koolade9]

Clearly it's the JHM tune.

Well played.

[musasabi]

I noticed in your first scan it mentioned ECU 2. I recently had a short in ECU 2 and found a used one (thanks 65vettec6) as new is really pricy, and that fixed similar problems to what you described...misfires under acceleration, rough idling, blinking then steady CEL, etc. Not saying that's it, but worth noting. I actually had a remanufactured ECU 2 (X in the part number) that was in there, so there must have been previous problems in my car. Hopefully the original part number ECU will keep further problems from happening. Fingers crossed. GL.

Oh boy... Haha. If I go through coils, plugs, injectors, and a relay or two just to discover it's an ECU problem, summer is going to get pricey. >.<

[musasabi]

Why not remove the original injectors and send them out to be flow tested, cleaned, and flow matched?

Car would be down for a couple days, but it will say you some $, while allowing you to retain the original injectors.

Check the following thread for more info:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...or-Maintenance

Weird the price really was 57 per injector!!! Your best bet is to get them cleaned and flow matched... I believe its less than 30$ a piece

Yeah, there's a place near me that'll do it for $20 a piece.

Though it's a good thing I don't have the injectors out yet. I called the shop and the guy said there were 20 units in front of me. Somebody dropped off eight and someone else dropped of 12 that same day. Seems like we've got a DIY'er Lambo in the area, haha.

[gesTTalt]

The injector is listed under R8. I just bought 8 and will be installing this weekend

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/a...njector%2C6224

[musasabi]

Sweet. Good luck to ya. =)

Also, have any of you chaps bothered to replace the o-rings? Those look a snitch pricey, too.

[highPSI-S4]

Sweet. Good luck to ya. =)

Also, have any of you chaps bothered to replace the o-rings? Those look a snitch pricey, too.

O-rings/seals are pricey. However buying new injectors you will need them, In case someone does I have a full set still in the package. When I got my Injectors cleaned/flowed matched the shopped replaced all my seals with new ones for testing.

[musasabi]

O-rings/seals are pricey. However buying new injectors you will need them, In case someone does I have a full set still in the package. When I got my Injectors cleaned/flowed matched the shopped replaced all my seals with new ones for testing.

Ho ho, mightly kind of them. Since I'll be taking mine out to take to the shop, I doubt I'll get the same service. Probably won't cost me as much as yours did, though. =)

[Quattrors4]

this is not injector related ,just changed your ecu relays .15$ and its fixte

[musasabi]

this is not injector related ,just changed your ecu relays .15$ and its fixte

Part number?

[FWP!]

Those codes and that hanging idle to me point to something electrical, I agree with koolade. Have you had a look under your ECU yet to see if the relays are ok? Sometimes they can get corroded.

[gesTTalt]

Sweet. Good luck to ya. =)

Also, have any of you chaps bothered to replace the o-rings? Those look a snitch pricey, too.

You can get just the o-ring, spacer, and teflon sleeve. 1/2 the cost of the brackets and clip set.

https://www.ecstuning.com/ES2065056/...zHMRoC57zw_wcB

[WinterRunner]

The injector is listed under R8. I just bought 8 and will be installing this weekend

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/a...njector%2C6224

Do you need to get these flow matched, or are they plug and play?

[musasabi]

Those codes and that hanging idle to me point to something electrical, I agree with koolade. Have you had a look under your ECU yet to see if the relays are ok? Sometimes they can get corroded.

I haven't, no. Did a quick search, but didn't see anything conclusive (driving a rare car is cool, ya know?) - are the relays actually _in_ the ECUs?

You can get just the o-ring, spacer, and teflon sleeve. 1/2 the cost of the brackets and clip set.

https://www.ecstuning.com/ES2065056/...zHMRoC57zw_wcB

Oh, score. 1/3 the price, even! Haha.

[komseh]

The relays in question are under the ECU nearest the driver side, you need to remove the windshield wiper arms and cowl to get to all of the ECU housing t30 bolts. After that there are 3 relays, just plan on replacing them all while you're in there.

[musasabi]

The relays are under the ECU, you need to remove the windshield wiper arms and cowl to get to all of the ECU housing t30 bolts. After that there are 3 relays, just plan on replacing them all while you're in there.

Makes good sense. Thanks. =)

[simple_king]

The relays in question are under the ECU nearest the driver side, you need to remove the windshield wiper arms and cowl to get to all of the ECU housing t30 bolts. After that there are 3 relays, just plan on replacing them all while you're in there.

Do you know the part number for the 3 relays? Are they 643 relays?

[komseh]

Do you know the part number for the 3 relays? Are they 643 relays?

Two of them were 614 relays PN# 8E0951253. I replaced them with relays numbered 644. IMO this is a part you want to get from the Audi dealer.

[simple_king]

Two of them were 614 relays PN# 8E0951253. I replaced them with relays numbered 644. IMO this is a part you want to get from the Audi dealer.

Thanks. Is the third relay the same or a different number?

[komseh]

Thanks. Is the third relay the same or a different number?

Don't remember anything about it except maybe it was smaller than the other two...

[musasabi]

Well, I swapped in new relays today and checked the injector's fuel trim data. They're bad, but not out of spec. 5.1% and 9.0% on the two blocks I could find. And, I think I'd be seeing some sorts of lean codes if the injectors were really the problem, right?

And, of course, the relays didn't fix a damn thing.

I'm starting to worry this might be ECU2 freaking out on me. While looking at VCDS, I saw cylinders 5-8 racking up misfires like crazy, at a steady pace. Meanwhile, 1-4 weren't.

Soo... anyone else have a slave ECU they want to sell?

[FWP!]

Well, I swapped in new relays today and checked the injector's fuel trim data. They're bad, but not out of spec. 5.1% and 9.0% on the two blocks I could find. And, I think I'd be seeing some sorts of lean codes if the injectors were really the problem, right?

And, of course, the relays didn't fix a damn thing.

I'm starting to worry this might be ECU2 freaking out on me. While looking at VCDS, I saw cylinders 5-8 racking up misfires like crazy, at a steady pace. Meanwhile, 1-4 weren't.

Soo... anyone else have a slave ECU they want to sell?

5 and 9% is that short or long term? If that's long term, that means you have a lean injector (not spraying properly), or if that's short term, that means you have a vacuum leak.

[seishuku]

But causing misfires on only one bank?
Seems unlikely to be injectors causing this... Might not be helping the engine, performance wise, but not total misfires on one whole bank of cylinders.