3.0 with white smoke at startup.

[19jdog]

I assume I have a blown head gasket. This morning when I started the car up, she ran rough for about 30 seconds. Went away power was normal. This afternoon at startup. She turned over then stopped. Tried again and she fired right up and ran rough again. This time more white smoke but went away. This probably esplains my coolant disappearing with no leak. Also could this be my misfires I have been having at 3200 rpm?

Bank one spark plugs


Bank two spark plugs



I've already got her in service mode.

[SJorge3442]

What side were the misfires? All those plugs look the same on my phone. I was having strange misfires that was due to a bad front o2 (after changing the fuel pump).

The front o2 code didn't show up until the problem got real bad. Then this weekend I blew a coil. Same shit. How old are those plugs and your coils? If you need the tools, give me a shout. I can send them out Saturday.

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[19jdog]

I think I don't need the alignment tool, I read as long as I keep it at TDC. I don't plan on doing the guides... Since I'm in there I'm doing the timing belt job too

misfires are always 2345 sometimes 1 and 6

[Captain_Panic]

Do a compression test before doing your timing belt job.

[SJorge3442]

I think I don't need the alignment tool, I read as long as I keep it at TDC. I don't plan on doing the guides... Since I'm in there I'm doing the timing belt job too

misfires are always 2345 sometimes 1 and 6

You 100% need the alignment tools. As soon as the timing belt is removed the cams will spin and flop over to the position of least resistance.

Strange for it to blow both gaskets yeah? I know a parallel cylinder will throw a "ghost " misfire if one cylinder is having some issues. Like if 4 was messing up, 3 could have phony misfires occurring too.

Either way if you shoot me $112 (shipping plus deposit) via PayPal, I'll priority mail these tools out. Once I get them back ill send you $100 back. Basically you pay shipping both ways and deposit and they are yours to use.

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[19jdog]

Do a compression test before doing your timing belt job.

Why? I already have a blown head gasket. Indicated by steam in the exhaust. The test will give bad results regardless.

[2fast4u66]

Deff do a compression check before anything.

I've never used the tool for timing belts on these v6s

Are you planning to take off both heads? If so why are we even talking about the tool? Lol

[SJorge3442]

Deff do a compression check before anything.

I've never used the tool for timing belts on these v6s

Are you planning to take off both heads? If so why are we even talking about the tool? Lol

Because you need to retime the engine when you install everything ...

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[ZERO FRAME GRAB]

This happened to me last year, was getting misfire codes changed plugs and coilpacks. Did'nt fix it finally one day started it up got a low coolant light, and when I pulled off white smoke. Block cracked. Ended up needing a new engine 4 grand on a car I paid 5 grand for

[SJorge3442]

This happened to me last year, was getting misfire codes changed plugs and coilpacks. Did'nt fix it finally one day started it up got a low coolant light, and when I pulled off white smoke. Block cracked. Ended up needing a new engine 4 grand on a car I paid 5 grand for

Cracked block?!?! On a 3.0? Was that a BRAND NEW engine for 4K, or a used engine? TBH, from what I can tell, swapping a new engine into a 3.0 (or any b6 for that matter) is about a 10-12 hour job if you have the tools and space.

[19jdog]

Cracked block?!?! On a 3.0? Was that a BRAND NEW engine for 4K, or a used engine? TBH, from what I can tell, swapping a new engine into a 3.0 (or any b6 for that matter) is about a 10-12 hour job if you have the tools and space.

Hopefully he misdiagnosed it. I drove home from work 60 miles. All the power was still there. Didn't over heat. Coolant was half quart low.

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[SJorge3442]

Hopefully he misdiagnosed it. I drove home from work 60 miles. All the power was still there. Didn't over heat. Coolant was half quart low.

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The only thing that I find strange in your situation is the fact that you feel both heads are leaking. Both sets of plugs look similar, youre getting misfires on both banks, and you're losing coolant. It all adds up, but its hard to believe. I know if I was going through the struggles of a HG, i would be pulling both heads and doing both HG's at the same time.

[19jdog]

I'm not going to do one bank. Even if one bank was fucked. I'm doing both sides regardless. I'm at 187000. Just scared now of the possibility of a cracked block. Hopefully this will cure my misfires...

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[cschuster]

A compression test would give you numbers to compare after head gasket replacement. Did you take a look at the pistons while the plugs were out?

[19jdog]

A compression test would give you numbers to compare after head gasket replacement. Did you take a look at the pistons while the plugs were out?

Hmmm I see what you are saying. No I put the car in service mode and called it a night. Hopefully I can have the head removed today.

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[SJorge3442]

Hmmm I see what you are saying. No I put the car in service mode and called it a night. Hopefully I can have the head removed today.

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Just a baseline compression. Remember how you do it too. Whether you have all plugs out, or only the cylinder your testing. Also, since our throttle body is in the back, its hard to open that to get good airflow during the test. When I tested my bank2 this weekend I had about 133 on each cylinder cold. That was with only one spark plug out at a time. I imagine those values would be 15-20% better with the throttle body open and the engine warm, or around 150-160.

[deyrag]

I have had two cracked blocks. Technically the first was for the original owner and was replaced by Audi under warranty so unless I went to the dealer and got a copy of the service history I would never have known. The second one was done by the local indy using a used block and my original heads. I saw the block after it came out and there was definitely a crack.
I then ran into the same issue the OP has and swapped in a used engine as i did not fully trust the indy to rebuild another one. I do not believe it was a block issue that time but more they did not do a good job of resurfacing the heads and sealing it up. I wanted to put in one that still had the "factory seal" between the heads and block.

My feeling is that similar to the incorrectly hardened cams in early 02's there was a batch of bad blocks.

[xhackerekx]

You 100% need the alignment tools. As soon as the timing belt is removed the cams will spin and flop over to the position of least resistance.

Strange for it to blow both gaskets yeah? I know a parallel cylinder will throw a "ghost " misfire if one cylinder is having some issues. Like if 4 was messing up, 3 could have phony misfires occurring too.

Either way if you shoot me $112 (shipping plus deposit) via PayPal, I'll priority mail these tools out. Once I get them back ill send you $100 back. Basically you pay shipping both ways and deposit and they are yours to use.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

^+1

[Captain_Panic]

I always exhaust all other efforts before tearing into a motor. Hence the suggestion of the compression test. Also, as mentioned, checking the pistons would tell you as well if coolant is leaking into the cylinder. I grabbed a cheap $13 borescope off of Amazon, and it has served me very well. Though you're likely right. You know your car better than I do. I'm also rambling a bit, so feel free to remind me to fuck off. Sometimes I forget.

[19jdog]

I always exhaust all other efforts before tearing into a motor. Hence the suggestion of the compression test. Also, as mentioned, checking the pistons would tell you as well if coolant is leaking into the cylinder. I grabbed a cheap $13 borescope off of Amazon, and it has served me very well. Though you're likely right. You know your car better than I do. I'm also rambling a bit, so feel free to remind me to fuck off. Sometimes I forget.

Lol. I will never tell you to fuck off. Not my style! Im already down to the cylinder heads. Need alignment tool! Tomorrow the heads will be off.

[diagnosticator]

It is practically impossible (but not absolutely impossible,) for both head gaskets to fail at the same time. A failed head gasket that leaks when the engine is cold, often does not leak after the engine warms up due to expansion of the parts resealing the gasket at the leak. When a head gasket leaks with the engine cold right after cold start up, typically more combustion gasses leak into the cooling system compared to coolant leaking into the adjacent cylinder/s due to the much higher pressure differential during the power stroke. Failed head gaskets don't leak enough pressure during a compression test to reveal the existence of a leaking head gasket. Other symptoms occurring and diagnostic methods are required to expose a failed head gasket. Compression pressure lost during a compression test with a faulty head gasket is low enough that the pressure reduction will be within the normal range of pressure variation between cylinders. A crack in a cylinder wall will exhibit a significantly different set of symptoms compared to a failed head gasket, with the common factors of coolant leaking into the cylinder and combustion gasses leaking into the cooling system, at various rates depending on engine temperature and the location of the crack in the cylinder.

Since it is not known which head gasket is leaking for sure, or which cylinder bank has a crack in one of the cylinder liner walls, being that there is no clear evidence showing on the spark plugs, replacing both head gaskets and inspecting all 6 cylinder liner walls is reasonable and appropriate in this case.

For future reference, it would be helpful to check the plugs after a cold start then shutting the engine OFF withing a couple of minutes without the engine warming up, to increase the chance for visible evidence to show on the spark plugs of which cylinder/bank is leaking coolant through a head gasket leak. If the plugs are only checked after driving the car with the engine fully warmed up, the operating conditions occuring required for the plugs to reveal the existence of a coolant leak into one or more cylinders is much less likely, as could be the case with the plugs appearance in this situation.

[deyrag]

Just FYI, if you are reusing the original heads they definitely need to be skimmed before installing and there is a limit to how much can be taken off.

[SJorge3442]

Just FYI, if you are reusing the original heads they definitely need to be skimmed before installing and there is a limit to how much can be taken off.

Yeah totally get the heads decked. Make sure they are 100% flat before re-installing. No sense skipping out on this crucial step.

[ZERO FRAME GRAB]

Used with about 85k on it, new timing job and fluids. If I had the tools and space believe me I would have done it myself.

[19jdog]

Yeah totally get the heads decked. Make sure they are 100% flat before re-installing. No sense skipping out on this crucial step.

So this morning I start her up and compression lock!! WTF so I try again and I get tons of white smoke. F me!!! I have another blown head gasket. I did NOT get the heads decked as advised . Do you think this is why Its happening again.
BTW this happen originally happen at 187000 miles, I have been problem free since. Today I'm just over 204000...

[SJorge3442]

So this morning I start her up and compression lock!! WTF so I try again and I get tons of white smoke. F me!!! I have another blown head gasket. I did NOT get the heads decked as advised . Do you think this is why Its happening again.
BTW this happen originally happen at 187000 miles, I have been problem free since. Today I'm just over 204000...

Oh damn. That's a lot of smoke. Totally coolant. Not decking the heads could be why, but you could also have something else going on too like a cracked head. That's a ton of smoke on startup and your into about the motor being locked is also concerning.

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[Nollywood]

Definitely coolant burning, I personally would never replace headgaskets without having the block and more importantly the cylinder heads checked. It's too labour intensive to do the same job twice.

Please make sure you don't rev that motor, if you get enough coolant in the combustion chamber, and the engine hydrolocks, you could end up with bent rods. As it stands, I would measure the individual piston heights, when they're at the tops of their compression strokes, and compare.

2.7T / V8 swap?

[deyrag]

Same thing happened to me after I cheaped out on the first rebuild and did not have the heads resurfaced.