S5 S-Tronic behavior

[Ice_2k]

Hi guys,

I just bought an S5 facelift sportback and I could use some advice on it :) This is my 1st gasoline car and my first automatic so there's plenty to get used to coming from a B8 A4 3.0TDI manual and another couple of smaller diesels before that. Basically my questions are about how the S-tronic should behave. Since this is not a new car (MY 2012), I want to make sure everything is normal and it's not actually a potential problem (the car is still under warranty so if there are any potential problems, I'd like to get them taken care of before the warranty expires because S-Tronic repairs here are insanely expensive):
1. When in manual mode and accelerating with ~50% throttle, pulling the upshift paddle at something like 3500 rpm doesn't result in an instant upshift, as I was expecting. The shift itself is very fast but it takes over half a second I think since I pull the paddle and until the gear change actually occurs. Is this normal?
2. When stationary and moving the gear lever to P, sometimes (not very often, maybe 1 in 15 times) there is a slight jerking motion (maybe "jerking" is too much), you can feel the car move a little bit.
3. When going about slowly in D, right before the car upshifts (at say 1800-1900 rpm) there is a very slight change in acceleration, barely noticeable. I didn't actually notice it at all at the beginning but now that I got more used to the car, I can definitely feel it. It's not something that bothers me, I just want to make sure it's normal.

Sorry for what I'm sure that (at least partly) are probably pretty stupid questions :)

Some pictures of my car :)

[HazeMyth]

The shift delay is normal. I believe there's a DSG tune that drastically reduces the shift delay though. As far as your second issue, I've only had this happen when I wasn't firmly pressing the brake while putting the car in park. I either haven't experienced or just haven't noticed your other issue.

[Ice_2k]

Thanks for the quick reply. Let me rephrase my 3rd "issue". If you have the music on and can't hear the engine, without looking at the dash, can you feel when the car changes hear? If you can, that's the "issue" :D I had people telling me I shouldn't be able to feel absolutely anything, which is why I'm asking.

[Brick Oven]

Sweet car and photos! I'm on my second b8 s-tronic and all of what you've written about sounds pretty normal to me. At part throttle, especially between gears 1 and 2, that shift is pretty languid. Let the car know you really mean it by mashing the gas a little more and it will cooperate! Honestly I feel like these transmissions are at their best when you're in manual mode (which I am about 100% of the time) and when you're giving the car "the full beans," as it were.

[Brick Oven]

Also, contrary to popular belief DSG is not a super smooth, seamless transmission like the ZF 8 speed is. Especially in stop-go traffic and around town. You will feel the car searching for gears up and down. I tend to feel like it gets closer to what I want as far as being in the proper gear when it's in sport mode, but even then I find it's not perfect. Again, manual mode FTW.

[Ice_2k]

Sweet car and photos! I'm on my second b8 s-tronic and all of what you've written about sounds pretty normal to me. At part throttle, especially between gears 1 and 2, that shift is pretty languid. Let the car know you really mean it by mashing the gas a little more and it will cooperate! Honestly I feel like these transmissions are at their best when you're in manual mode (which I am about 100% of the time) and when you're giving the car "the full beans," as it were.

that's great to hear, thanks! Btw, any idea what will happen in manual mode (with the shifter leaned towards the right) when reaching high rpms? Will it shift on its own or will it go into the limiter?

[Ice_2k]

Also, contrary to popular belief DSG is not a super smooth, seamless transmission like the ZF 8 speed is. Especially in stop-go traffic and around town. You will feel the car searching for gears up and down. I tend to feel like it gets closer to what I want as far as being in the proper gear when it's in sport mode, but even then I find it's not perfect. Again, manual mode FTW.

That was exactly my impression with it and I'm perfectly happy with how it works. I was just expecting that super smooth action because of all the stuff you read online and I got a little worried I might have some issues :) Thanks for clearing it up for me :)

[Brick Oven]

that's great to hear, thanks! Btw, any idea what will happen in manual mode (with the shifter leaned towards the right) when reaching high rpms? Will it shift on its own or will it go into the limiter?

It will shift automatically :( only way to change that is aftermarket transmission software ala APR, GIAC etc.

[Ice_2k]

why ":(" ? Would you prefer it allowed you to hit the limiter?

[Vanimal]

Damn so jealous you guys get the sportback, id have to get a A7 S line over here in US to get something close to that. Not fond of the A7 interior, looks more luxury over "sport". It does get the cool RS5 though.

[Brick Oven]

why ":(" ? Would you prefer it allowed you to hit the limiter?

Just a preference I guess. I'd rather the car bounce off the rev limiter and shift when I tell it to; instead I often end up shifting up twice, once because the computer told it to and again a split second later because I'd already hit the paddle thinking, I'd better shift---oops.

[The Flash]

my s5 has that lag when starting as well so does my buddys GTR

[Jreod]

Yep my b8.5's DSG sounds like you describe.

A little slow to change gears in manual mode. Gets faster however if you accelerate harder. Not as fast as my 07 A3 2.0T's DSG which is virtually instant and very responsive. Tho I suspect the previous owner of the A3 may have tuned or programmed the DSG? (Could this be? How do I tell?) All other DSGs I've test driven before buying the b8.5 never really replicated the speedy gear shifts of my a3. So even today, I love driving around in the snappier A3.

Even double shifting down from 4th to 2nd when come to a stop sometimes gets missed and only drops it from 4th to 3rd. I feel like gentle taps cause this. I need to firmly tap the paddles with conviction. Not sure if I'm the only one experiencing this.

The manual mode stick shifter also feels like a longer amount of travel, compared to the shorter one on the a3. It's sooo much more effort required to push it that much farther forward before a gear change. Lol. First world problems I know. Just love the feel of my ol' A3 is all.

Otherwise I love the car and DSG has been well behaved.

Love the sportback S5 too! So jealous! Is the only difference the 4 doors? Or is it a longer base?

[Ice_2k]

Thanks for all your feedback guys :)

@Jreod According to wiki, the sportback is 3.5 inches longer and has a 2.5 inches longer wheelbase

[Dippy]

I have not noticed any of those issues on mine (MY15 sportback) so I'll check next time, particularly #1.

I have ADS and have come to the conclusion that whilst on paper the shift points may have seemed sensible to Audi, in the real world they are useless. Along with start/stop the D shift points are all selected to achieve a level of economy and emissions that as S-car owners we don't really care about. Then the E mode is so ridiculous in its attempt to be in a high gear even at a crawl. I would like to have had E the same as D is, and D something halfway towards S. That way D would be great for everyday diving and I could genuinely select E when conditions (traffic, parents or in-laws in a passenger seat) favoured it.

I guess I could get my TCU remapped but I'm waiting until I can get a stage 2 tune (although that may never happen as the tuners don't seem able or inclined to crack the SIMOS 16).

[UkuRiSh]

My 2011 S4 with 60 miles on it did exactly same even after 4 years of driving, but my 2013 Audi S5 is smooth and a lot better at stop and go traffic etc. I believe audi upgrade their software on TCU after 2013




edit: You should ask your local audi dealer for TCU upgrade.

[Ice_2k]

I'll do that, thanks!

[Brick Oven]

My 2011 S4 with 60 miles on it did exactly same even after 4 years of driving, but my 2013 Audi S5 is smooth and a lot better at stop and go traffic etc. I believe audi upgrade their software on TCU after 2013

I also went from 2011 S4 to 2013 S5 and feel the same way -- b8.5 dsg is a little smoother. They are different parts as I recall, not just a software update

[Ice_2k]

Seems to me like the upshifts are much smoother when going WOT than when going half throttle, anybody else noticed that?

[Dippy]

I did get around to checking these issues on my car and I didn't notice anything like what was described. In particular I found that in manual mode the gearchanges were instant, no matter what engine speed or throttle position.

[Ice_2k]

Seems weird that some folks have the delay and some don't. What year is yours? I'm particularly noticing the delay when going from M1 to M2, I think it's longer than half a second.

[Dippy]

Mine is an S5 sportback built Q1 2015. Box is 0B5 927 156 K version H03 with 8K0 927 166 software.

Are you saying that when you do a fast dash from standstill in M you get that delay between M1 and M2? I would certainly notice that and would be straight to my dealer about it. I'm totally happy with the operation of my 'box and am somewhat bewildered by the criticisms. Maybe its a personal preference thing.

[swoboda84]

I drove a4 2.0T s-tronic about one year and 35000 km, and would say it is not perfect. I had 6hp19 before and drive it now again. This behavior in manual shifting is ok for s-tronic. I can-t remember some car moving within the selection. But it is very difficult to describe with words the behavior of s-tronic dl-501. In general it is ok, but the 6hp19 is more comfortable.

[swoboda84]

Seems weird that some folks have the delay and some don't. What year is yours? I'm particularly noticing the delay when going from M1 to M2, I think it's longer than half a second.

I don't khow which cars you have driven before, from 8 cars I had 3 with automatic transmission, 6hp19 then DL-501 then 6hp19, this delay what you describe was in all this transmittions. This manual shifting is just a plaything. If you give full throttle in D or S it will accelerate much better as you can do it manually.

[Ice_2k]

I'll make a video tomorrow and post it here :) The delay is ok from M2 onwards but from M1 to M2 it's quite significant...

[Ice_2k]

I did some more tests on the way home... the M1 -> M2 issue seems to be down to what gear is preselected. Pushing the + padel at 2000rpm is significantly slower than doing it at 4000rpm. I also found a wiki article saying that at very low speeds, when in 1st gear, the other side of the gearbox has R preselected, not 2. This would explain why upshifting at low rpm takes a long time (it needs to move from R to 2 and only then engage it) and at higher rpm (when it already realised you're going to need 2, not R) it's faster.

[Izzu]

I did some more tests on the way home... the M1 -> M2 issue seems to be down to what gear is preselected. Pushing the + padel at 2000rpm is significantly slower than doing it at 4000rpm. I also found a wiki article saying that at very low speeds, when in 1st gear, the other side of the gearbox has R preselected, not 2. This would explain why upshifting at low rpm takes a long time (it needs to move from R to 2 and only then engage it) and at higher rpm (when it already realised you're going to need 2, not R) it's faster.

That's interesting. I don't know why the hell R would be preselected when you have to shift to it anyway...and there's no benefit to preselecting reverse. But I would say your comment on low rpm and speeds vs. high rpm and speeds is consistent with what I have noticed in my girlfriend's 2013 S4. A lot of the time I'm pushing that car to its max (because let's be real, I'm mainly choosing to drive it over my A5 when I want to have fun with the extra power and sports diff) and the shifts are super quick, but if I end up getting yelled at by the gf for speeding and leave it in manual mode, I'll notice the shift from 1 to 2 is fairly delayed when slowly accelerating from a light.

[superswiss]

When in P, Reverse is selected on the K2 clutch and 1st on the K1 clutch, because the TCU doesn't know yet if you gonna drive forward or backward, so it's gonna get ready for either case. While you are creeping around at slow speeds, it's gonna leave Reverse selected, because it thinks you are maneuvering. For example you might be parallel parking and going between 1st and Reverse until you are in your spot, so instead of constantly hunting between 2nd and Reverse on the K2 clutch it stays in Reverse, until you reach a certain speed driving forward and then it selects 2nd gear to get ready for the next shift. It all makes sense if you think about it. However, the 1 -> 2 delay has more to do with the TCU trying to make the shift smooth if you are not gunning it. It doesn't execute the shift until the K1 clutch is fully engaged, so if you try to shift while the clutch is till slipping it doesn't shift right away, which is the delay OP and others notice.

[Ice_2k]

^ makes sense

[Dippy]

Mmmm maybe I'm not as perceptive as you guys. I'll pay a bit more attention next time I'm out. Regarding swoboda84's comment I always do better in M than S purely because Audi decided to reduce the shiftpoint in the facelift model. But other than that of course M technically changes gear slower than S because there is the additional paddle response time.

I can't understand the comments about R. My only criticism of the 'box is the time it takes to select R. When I come home I crawl and do a right turn in order to reverse into my garage. It seems to take at least 1 second if not more for R to be selected after selecting it, so I can't believe that my 'box has R preselected. I guess I should look and see if it is actually in D1 when I move the lever - maybe it is still in D2 and D1 is preselected?

One thing I am thankful of the s-tronic is that it prevents me doing what I occasionally did in my B5 S4 manual - try to change gear without the clutch fully disengaged. I'm happy not to hear that sound again :)

[Ice_2k]

That might explain it actually, I never have that delay, R is always there. Maybe they changed their minds about what gear makes sense to be preselected and that's why we have 2 different behaviours

[HazeMyth]

I guess I should look and see if it is actually in D1 when I move the lever - maybe it is still in D2 and D1 is preselected?

I'm assuming you have the vagcom mod to enable the gear number on your drive/sport setting? Even though I rarely ever actually use D/S and am basically always in Manual, I still love having that feature enabled.

[Ice_2k]

Mine showed the gear number from the factory, no custom mod.

[HazeMyth]

Mine showed the gear number from the factory, no custom mod.

What year is it? It wasn't available to me on my 2013 S5. A member here helped me do some Vagcom mods, and that was one he set up for me.

[Ice_2k]

It's a 2012 but it's the european model

[Dippy]

Don't US models show the gear in the DIS as standard then?

[Lizard 1]

Anyone know of a set tune for the pre-facelift S5 transmissions? I honestly hate starting from a light and such in Drive mode. MUCH better in Sport or manual...

[Ice_2k]

What bothers you about starting in D?

[Lizard 1]

What bothers you about starting in D?

Very jerky and not as smooth as when in Sport. Shifts are shorter and more abrupt. If I stomp on it, fine. But not a good thing to do all the time...

[Ice_2k]

Do you guys leave it in D when waiting at traffic lights or shift it to N? I don't really like leaving it in D to ride the clutches all the time but I'm not sure always shifting back and forth between D and N is ok either...