When going stage 3 what else can be done without the additional labor??

[ajee622]

Example if I'm using a shop and they are charging 30 hours of labor already to do the job. Or even better question what else should be done when you are already taking everything apart

1) down pipes since I will need them anyway
2) intercoolers since I'll need them anyway
3) tb and water pump
4) clutch?? Should I expect to have to pay labor for that??
5) anything else you can think of?
6) coolant flush and new g12 tank

Anything else??




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[vavJETTAw36]

Depends on the inter coolers. The SRMs I installed the other day took about 8 hours. Most of that time I was spent cutting, grinding, test fitting, and relocating. I'm sure you'd save an hour or two on labor but then again it depends on the intercoolers you are going with.


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[DieselElectric]

Don't be that guy who asks to tack on a bunch of extra stuff for free.

Intercoolers are extra, because they aren't just going to bolt in and fit like stock.

Clutch, yes expect to pay.

Timing belt/water pump, extra.

Look at it this way, while it is "no big deal" to do these things while you are in there, it still takes time. For a mechanic, time is money that you don't get paid for unless you charge.

It's rude to expect extra odds and ends to be done free of charge, and sets a bad tone for the guy doing the work. It gives the impression that the customer is going to be a pain in the ass to get full payment from when the time comes.

[jballou]

Ever little thing counts. It takes time to install stuff. You are really only saving on the initial labor---lets say a clutch job, motor is pulled. Timing belt job---not so much, while it makes it easier once the motor is out, it still takes a bit of time. Instead of adding all these things, talk with the shop on everything you want to do, and come up with a price you both agree on.



Also remember, these cars are pushing 16 years of age. While the shop is in there, they may find broken things that were not on the list, in that matter, you need to be understanding if the time-line changes. I found stuff on the current car I am working on, waiting for parts has delayed things over a week.

[reverse.rake]

I would ask them to replace the motor mounts for no labor, but that's about it really. Like others have said everything takes extra time and mechanics gotta pay the bills as well.

[ajee622]

Ok I get everyone's point but I guess my point as well is:

Using your intercooler example. If part of the labor, if I bought just the intercoolers is to take off the bumper etc. then I shouldn't be charged full price if they are doing it anyway. I like your suggestion on talking with the shop.


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[insomniacxp1]

Did a quick look up for labor and Audi calls for 17.3 for both turbo remove and install which includes engine R+I. I'll say 2.5 hrs for the timing belt kit, Intercoolers you'd be putting back on anyways on the install portion but some cutting of the core support and a little fitment time I'll give 2.0 hrs. Audi calls for 1.0 for a coolant flush and the down pipes you'll be putting on the install too. Clutch is extra, how much dependent on how the tech takes the engine out (so i'll leave that out of it for now)

Also your missing fueling! Injectors is a must, Intake/MAF, pump? fpr depending on tuner ect. I'd recommend doing the temp sensor behind the passenger head, with the engine out would literally take 30 seconds but give it I'll give it .2 for laughs

So ...
17.3 - Turbo R+I
2.5 - T/B Kit
2.5 - Intercooler
1.0 - Coolant Flush
.2 - Temp Sensor
-------
23.5 hrs labor

^That is just for what you mentioned. Additional items could be any seals that are leaking? Valve cover, half moon, tensioner, rear main, front main, pan ect. Are the 02's original? Serp belt? Motor/Trans mounts? Snub mount? Plugs? Diverter Valves?

Good luck in the process and be sure to choose a reputable shop, also once again, don't forget fueling! ha

[xalents23]

If you are planning on keeping the car for a long time. I would inspect every hose, o-ring, and part that needs to be replaced. It's going to be a huge bill but, you have to pay to play. Or do the work yourself and save in the labor charges. Or find guys that work on these cars in your area and maybe they will lend you a helping hand. In return you get to learn more about your car and maybe make some friends out of it. Good luck.

[ajee622]

Well I got quoted for 30 hours. I'm ok with it. Just doing homework.

The reason I'm asking is because I'm getting multiple hours needed to do the same thing. Example 1 shop told me 40 hours. 1 shop told me 30. Etc. this is without me asking to do the extra stuff. 10 hour difference at $100 an hour. That's what's making me question everything.

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[Zba]

You are doing custom work so book time goes out the window. Putting bigger turbos, intercoolers, downpipes etc. in an area that wasn't designed for it on a 15 year old car is going to equal trouble. Plan on paying that extra 10 hours of labor regardless. For example: the inlets on the FT21s: the brackets behind the inlets needed to be ground down, smoothed etc.

[kingkhalilz]

I LOVE the S4 really do. I understand why your doing this. But putting a lot of money in an old car is hard to do. Let alone paying someone that much in labor on an old car must be even harder. Not everyone likes wrenching or can. But....just make sure this is exactly what you want. I love riding in fast cars especially s4's but when i built mine it was so much funner to drive simply cause i did the work. Not saying you wont enjoy the hell out of your car, or smile every time you look at it let alone get in it. Just sharing what really gets me going.

[Robsa6]

I've had the engine and transmission out of my A6 4 times plus a couple half ins and back outs and I can honestly say that anything you want to change IS going to take time. Swapping downpipes for example sounds like just reinstalling the ones that came off but with new right? Wrong... The new ones likely wont fit exactly as the old ones did leaving a mechanic to his ingenuity to figure it out and get you together. Do you want a half assed job or a good job? Think about the clutch too... The engine is out and the pressure plate is right there whats the big deal? Well chasing all the threads in the crank if you want to be sure the new bolts are going to thread in smooth and not get gunked up took me the better part of an hour not to mention cleaning everything I reused was a god awful time sapping job. I know what you are saying and I get it. You are likely to find that the shop will indeed work with you for the " already there items" and give you a fair price. I only bring the things above up to give just 2 menial tasks that together could possibly eat up most of a day. Good luck with your build and keep us posted

[audi-hammer]

Or find guys that work on these cars in your area and maybe they will lend you a helping hand. In return you get to learn more about your car and maybe make some friends out of it. Good luck.

this x2

[christianb5s4]

What are some common items beyond the major stage 3 components that are prone to breaking while removing the engine? Also, what type of lines are you guys using to refresh the wastegate and N75 lines?

[jballou]

What are some common items beyond the major stage 3 components that are prone to breaking while removing the engine? Also, what type of lines are you guys using to refresh the wastegate and N75 lines?

Everything... Mainly wiring harness related stuff, plastic/rubber hoses, Crap that other people have put on these cars that don't know what they are doing that much and must be removed and fixed properly---you know, just common stuff.

[christianb5s4]

Everything... Mainly wiring harness related stuff, plastic/rubber hoses, Crap that other people have put on these cars that don't know what they are doing that much and must be removed and fixed properly---you know, just common stuff.

I can imagine, trying to get a jump on ordering everything before you start working on the car so there are no delays.

[MikeyB3]

I can imagine, trying to get a jump on ordering everything before you start working on the car so there are no delays.

I adore your optimism, dude.

OP >> Things always come up, or take a little longer. And there's always extra expenses. I mean, hopefully it wont be a "we need to replace your crank" expense (AMHIK, because I do know)... but there's always something that needs a little refresh. That'll cost you up front, but will save you later on. And just putting this out there. Every setup can be made quite reliable [considering], but it does cost much extra. Dont freak out, and be sure to see it through to the end. You're doing it right, asking questions. But if you want to commit, commit. Dont half ass anything to save 200$.

[ajee622]

Yeah tough call overall. I've been trying to rationalize what I enjoy driving vs what it's going to cost me. Even $10k isn't bad vs trying to get another used car for $30k.


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[Robsa6]

Reliable... I went stage 3 on my A6 and proceeded to put 30k on it last year driving from NYC to Charlotte and back every two weeks. The KO4 recipe is indeed reliable after sorting the things that have been talked about above.