Time for a new clutch

[Jperez9627]

Hey guys so it's time for a new clutch and I'm not sure which one to get. I was looking at the Ra4 clutch by ecs but there's no hp rating. I'm running a Motoza stage 1+ and plan on going BAT in the next year or so. What would you guys recommend? RA4 used here on classified is 400 and a new clutch masters it's like 1000+.... anyone have a cheaper route I can take?

[itsmatt33]

i went south bend stage 3 from awe tuning, garbage, then clutch master fx400 6 puck 240mm, twice, garbage and horrible customer service, now on ecs ra4 stage 2, great so far no complaints

[redline380]

ra4, ra4, ra4.

not many great reviews for CM out there.

[BARRY]

i liked my RA4...now have a JHM RS4 clutch sitting in my storage unit waiting to be used.

[redline380]

i liked my RA4...now have a JHM RS4 clutch sitting in my storage unit waiting to be used.

I wonder, can a B7 rs4 disk be used with a B5 RS4 pressure plate on an RA4 flywheel?

[BARRY]

from what i know they're difference sizes.

[redline380]

from what i know they're difference sizes.

How so? I know they are both 240mm diameter. Maybe thickness is different?

[Mr.Avant]

From the reading I've done recently...

The JHM kit (9lb flywheel) uses the B7 RS4 pressure plate and disk

The ECS RA4 kit (12lb flywheel) uses the B5 RS4 pressure plate and disk

The B7 RS4 pressure plate (more clamping force vs B5) will not bolt to the heavier 12lb flywheel from ECS. Something about the friction surface sitting at a different height (on the flywheel). I cant see the actual friction surfaces between the B5 and B7 clutch disks being drastically different.

[MetalMan]

From what I've read the clutch disk thickness between B5 and B7 could be 2mm. Not really sure why you'd use the B7 RS4 clutch disk over the B5 S4 clutch disk, seems they're fairly comparable. The B7 RS4 pressure plate is where the magic happens.

The B7 RS4 clutch kit can work with the RA4, and I'm proof of that. BUT it's not plug-and-play. It requires a little work and slight modifications, but nothing you necessarily need a machine shop for. Feel free to read the thread I made on this topic:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...)-RA4-flywheel

B6 and B5 1.8T clutches are functionally the same.

[Jperez9627]

So RA4 it is than huh? Would you recommend a used one or just bite the bullet and get a new one? Or would the JHM kit be better? If I ever need to get another clutch would I just pay for the luk clutch or would I have to get a whole new kit? I'm definitely getting either jhm or ecs.

[B6A4Dave]

the brilliant part of the RA4 is that you're able to use any of the B5 S4 upgrade disks afterwards.

So the stock S4 disk will probably hold you to close to 400tq, Figure the type of power an S4 makes on a stage 1+ or stage 2 using the stock clutch without issues is probably around there..

And while a stage 4 spec clutch for the OEM A4 228mm is probably around 700tq or so, a stage 1 or 2 for the S4 is also right around that point..

Im going BAT on my RA4 here soon, when I swap to my build motor Im probably only going to throw in a stage 2 clutch for an S4

[Jperez9627]

So ur saying when it comes time to change my clutch I can just throw any S4 upgraded clutch in there if I get the RA4? If that's the case than that's the one I'm getting for sure

[redline380]

the brilliant part of the RA4 is that you're able to use any of the B5 S4 upgrade disks afterwards.

Well, this isn't 100% true. They will take many discs, but from what I understand, they will not accept puck style S4 clutches. Something to do with the clearance of the flywheel bolts.

However, the problem can help be alleviated by utilizing some ARP bolts. Which ones, I am not sure.

[Jperez9627]

Ok got it.... so between the stage 1 and stage 2 which one would you guys recommend?

[FromS60toB61.8t]

Ok got it.... so between the stage 1 and stage 2 which one would you guys recommend?

stage 2 for sure. The rs4 pressure plate feels like oem and holds great power. Im running 32psi on a GTX2867R with no slippage.

from doing some reading though, the 5spd gets a little chatter and vibrations so im not sure if thats a factor in your decision. Im running it on a 6spd box.

[Jperez9627]

To be honest I really don't care if it chatters.... I have a civic that is so damn loud and annoying to drive because of all my mods and I personally don't mind it at all. So I'm sure the audi won't be an issue there

[Jperez9627]

Just realized I contradicted myself lol.... point is that I won't mind at all lol

[BARRY]

so...from what i know, the B7 RS4 clutch pressure plate does not work as it is either larger or has a different bolt pattern. hence why JHM designed and built the B7 RS4 clutch and flywheel combo for the 1.8t. The B5 RS4 clutch kit DOES work. the B7 RS4 friction disk within a B5 RS4 pressure plate may work. I think that is what JHM does with their clutches. correct me if i'm wrong.

if you were to use a stock B7 RS4 friction disk in any other clutch it would be a waste of money as they're both organic, but really at that point you might as well go with an aftermarket friction disk.

in steps of upgrading clutches, generally you want a pressure plate with more clamp load...this will hold the power. once you start abusing the clutch you'll need a friction disk with a heavier duty material. that heavier duty material also can withstand an even stronger pressure plate if needed due to the material being used. so in clutch terms that would translate to stage 1, stage 2, and stage 3. sometimes stage 4 and 5 if different materials are available for the friction disk. friction disk material also will change the characteristics of the clutch as certain materials allow for more slippage where as others are on and off in a sense.

[MetalMan]

so...from what i know, the B7 RS4 clutch pressure plate does not work as it is either larger or has a different bolt pattern. hence why JHM designed and built the B7 RS4 clutch and flywheel combo for the 1.8t.

I'm gonna break this down.
B7 RS4 "fits" exactly the same as B5 S4/RS4 except it has smaller diameter holes for the alignment dowel pins. Two solutions here:
1) drill out the holes in the B7 RS4 pressure plate to accommodate the larger B5 S4/RS4 dowel pins
2) replace the dowel pins in the RA4 flywheel with custom step-down pins to fit the B7 RS4 pressure plate holes. This is what I did, and I know it works.

The main difference between B7 RS4 and B5 S4/RS4 pressure plate/clutch is the step height; B7 step height is ~2mm less. To remedy this, you can use a 2mm spacer/washer between pressure plate and flywheel. This is what I did, and so far for ~1.7k miles, it has worked.

The B5 RS4 clutch kit DOES work. the B7 RS4 friction disk within a B5 RS4 pressure plate may work. I think that is what JHM does with their clutches. correct me if i'm wrong.

if you were to use a stock B7 RS4 friction disk in any other clutch it would be a waste of money as they're both organic, but really at that point you might as well go with an aftermarket friction disk.

Yeah I don't really know why you would use the B7 RS4 clutch disk with the B5 pressure plate. Doesn't make sense to me.

[Jperez9627]

I'm gonna break this down.
B7 RS4 "fits" exactly the same as B5 S4/RS4 except it has smaller diameter holes for the alignment dowel pins. Two solutions here:
1) drill out the holes in the B7 RS4 pressure plate to accommodate the larger B5 S4/RS4 dowel pins
2) replace the dowel pins in the RA4 flywheel with custom step-down pins to fit the B7 RS4 pressure plate holes. This is what I did, and I know it works.

The main difference between B7 RS4 and B5 S4/RS4 pressure plate/clutch is the step height; B7 step height is ~2mm less. To remedy this, you can use a 2mm spacer/washer between pressure plate and flywheel. This is what I did, and so far for ~1.7k miles, it has worked.



Yeah I don't really know why you would use the B7 RS4 clutch disk with the B5 pressure plate. Doesn't make sense to me.

OK so based off of what I have read so far the RA4 clutch from a b5 would work just fine.... and if I needed another clutch plate I will have to go with a ecs one right? When it comes to gripping power it will all depend on the material the clutch is made of and what type of abuse I put it through. I'm more of a weekend warrior.... so I go to the track every so often. The RA4 stage 2 should be just fine for what I want right?

[redline380]

OK so based off of what I have read so far the RA4 clutch from a b5 would work just fine.... and if I needed another clutch plate I will have to go with a ecs one right? When it comes to gripping power it will all depend on the material the clutch is made of and what type of abuse I put it through. I'm more of a weekend warrior.... so I go to the track every so often. The RA4 stage 2 should be just fine for what I want right?

stage 2 is fine.

The beauty of the RA4 is it uses stock b5 s4 or or b5 rs4 clutches, which can be had much cheaper than ECS sells them for. Ergo, when it comes time for a replacement, it is fairly inexpensive.

AFAIK, the b5 s4 and rs4 discs are the exact same, only the pressure plates differ

[Jperez9627]

stage 2 is fine.
The beauty of the RA4 is it uses stock b5 s4 or or b5 rs4 clutches, which can be had much cheaper than ECS sells them for. Ergo, when it comes time for a replacement, it is fairly inexpensive.

AFAIK, the b5 s4 and rs4 discs are the exact same, only the pressure plates differ

OK cool beans...... that's awesome b to hear. .. Now once I have the tranny out what else should I replace

[customa4]

I did my rear main seal but many will say if it's not leaking, leave it alone. In my eyes, if you install it properly and use the RTV silicon that is mentioned in the manual it's quite simple and pretty hard to screw up on.

[Jperez9627]

I did my rear main seal but many will say if it's not leaking, leave it alone. In my eyes, if you install it properly and use the RTV silicon that is mentioned in the manual it's quite simple and pretty hard to screw up on.

So rear main, slave cylinder, tranny fluid, anything else I'm missing?

[redline380]

In my eyes, if you install it properly and use the RTV silicon that is mentioned in the manual it's quite simple and pretty hard to screw up on.

That was the part I fucked up on when I rebuilt my engine. The lip seal on the rear main is inverted, and half of it cocked back. Leaked pretty good for a while.

The trick is to lift up the dust seal and ensure the lip seal is still inverted and so it doesnt look like this

[customa4]

I bought mine from the dealership and it came with a guide sleeve on it so it leaves no room for error on that part. I'm not sure if the aftermarket piece would come with the sleeve or not but the one from Audi does. When I installed I saw exactly what your saying as being the problem. In the manual it mentions using the guide sleeve carefully to install the seal. Click

Carefully push sealing flange -2- together
with guide sleeve -1- (fitted on replacement
part) onto crankshaft when installing

[redline380]

Mine came with the sleeve but I used it improperly. Even if used properly, the lip seal could catch an invert.

Dont let it happen!

[Jperez9627]

Is there anything else you guys recommend changing while doing this job?

[B6A4Dave]

all the obvious clutch components.

Throw out bearing, pilot bushing/bearing, etc. I'd clean out the trans inside while you have it off I'm sure it'll be full of clutch dust and debris.

I also changed my gear oil and replaced the drain plugs with ECS Magnetic just because it all seemed like a good time to do it it. I also did my rear diff.

For the record I used Motul gear 300 75w90.

I would buy a rear main seal just in case you crack the trans off the motor and find it's leaky..but really nothing else should need to be replaced.

Maybe be a good time to upgrade the clutch line to a SS braided line.. if you have a bad rear coolant flange or an SAI Delete plate its really easy to get to it from the bottom with the trans out.. Maybe motor mounts?

If I do big jobs like this I try to make it worth it and do a bunch of things at once that are just that much easier with the trans out the way.