B8 Ko4 owners follow up thread

[Roadtrippn]

Why not just wrap the support in some rubber hose like heater hose or whatever?

I ask bc i'm probably adding them on in the coming months.

Mike

Do this. I put some sound deadening material around my crash bar where I thought my Tr8 could vibrate and cause annoying sounds. I had some dynamat type stuff laying around and just taped it on there. With the ecs piping and intercooler I'm not having any vibrations though.Best of luck!

[Coldcarnival]

So haven't posted in a awhile, was having some oil leaking from the bell housing. Had the trans pulled assuming it was most likely rear main seal. Turned out the block had a hairline crack inside of the bell housing.
Bought a salvaged motor from a 13' allroad with 40k on it. Had all my parts swapped on the "new" motor and she's pulling like a train again. My block had 80k mi on it when it "failed".

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[A4x]

So haven't posted in a awhile, was having some oil leaking from the bell housing. Had the trans pulled assuming it was most likely rear main seal. Turned out the block had a hairline crack inside of the bell housing.
Bought a salvaged motor from a 13' allroad with 40k on it. Had all my parts swapped on the "new" motor and she's pulling like a train again. My block had 80k mi on it when it "failed".

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Thats scary af. Glad you got settled with a new motor!

[Spawne32]

Ya'll are gonna wanna punch me in the throat for this one but I decided to dick around with a ebay F23L until I decide whether or not im selling this car or not. Got one for $650 which is supposed to be from the same manufacturer that Doug Harper uses at frankenturbo which some slightly different components. Frankenturbo uses a 625 Alloy Steel Mixed flow turbine rotor, this ebay job is showing a 713C Iconel full back turbine rotor. Franken lists a 2618 Billet alloy aluminum compressor wheel where the ebay job is using 7075 series billet aluminum.

I'm gonna pull it apart when I get it and check it out and see if it offers a cheaper alternative to any of the options we have in the hybrid turbos. All evidence seems to suggest that alot of the hybrid turbos are also chinese turbos as well, just with better quality control. If I can find the source for them I think we may have a turbo at half the price that could be just as reliable, assuming its balanced well and the seals dont shit the bed after a couple thousand miles. Worst case scenario im gonna send it right back, they offer a 1 year warranty and 30 day return policy no questions asked.

[Perry01]

Ya'll are gonna wanna punch me in the throat for this one but I decided to dick around with a ebay F23L until I decide whether or not im selling this car or not. Got one for $650 which is supposed to be from the same manufacturer that Doug Harper uses at frankenturbo which some slightly different components. Frankenturbo uses a 625 Alloy Steel Mixed flow turbine rotor, this ebay job is showing a 713C Iconel full back turbine rotor. Franken lists a 2618 Billet alloy aluminum compressor wheel where the ebay job is using 7075 series billet aluminum.

I'm gonna pull it apart when I get it and check it out and see if it offers a cheaper alternative to any of the options we have in the hybrid turbos. All evidence seems to suggest that alot of the hybrid turbos are also chinese turbos as well, just with better quality control. If I can find the source for them I think we may have a turbo at half the price that could be just as reliable, assuming its balanced well and the seals dont shit the bed after a couple thousand miles. Worst case scenario im gonna send it right back, they offer a 1 year warranty and 30 day return policy no questions asked.

A Chinese made (of unknown origin), EBay sold turbocharger? Hmm. Installing my K04 was a major pain in the ass. I’d hate to have to do it more than once....

[Spawne32]

A Chinese made (of unknown origin), EBay sold turbocharger? Hmm. Installing my K04 was a major pain in the ass. I’d hate to have to do it more than once....

So the F23 frankenturbo is made/sold by WUXIEY Turbocharger Co. LTD. I was able to locate a supplier supposedly selling from the same company which should be the exact same part being sold under the typical chinese intellectual property theft practice that they normally conduct for a fraction of the price. You can contact the suppliers directly through alibaba but you run into the issue of negotiating for either a larger order, or having to deal with negotiating freight prices, so I decided to go with the slightly more expensive ebay option which had them already here in the USA ready for shipping. This practice has been around for quite a while actually, 10 years ago we found the supplier for Skunk2 cams selling them on alibaba and you could order the same product that was selling for $1200 a set for $35 dollars a cam through the supplier, you just had to order 1000 of them. lol I am hesitant to put it on the car, I bought it for more dissection and see whats going on more then anything and then I may decide to use it or not depending on whether or not I feel its actually safe. Gonna take measurements of the wheels and see how they stack up against the real frankenturbo.

[bhvrdr]

So the F23 frankenturbo is made/sold by WUXIEY Turbocharger Co. LTD. I was able to locate a supplier supposedly selling from the same company which should be the exact same part being sold under the typical chinese intellectual property theft practice that they normally conduct for a fraction of the price. You can contact the suppliers directly through alibaba but you run into the issue of negotiating for either a larger order, or having to deal with negotiating freight prices, so I decided to go with the slightly more expensive ebay option which had them already here in the USA ready for shipping. This practice has been around for quite a while actually, 10 years ago we found the supplier for Skunk2 cams selling them on alibaba and you could order the same product that was selling for $1200 a set for $35 dollars a cam through the supplier, you just had to order 1000 of them. lol I am hesitant to put it on the car, I bought it for more dissection and see whats going on more then anything and then I may decide to use it or not depending on whether or not I feel its actually safe. Gonna take measurements of the wheels and see how they stack up against the real frankenturbo.

I wouldn't be surprised if they supply the parts to hpa and jhm as well. I know one of the chinese companies allowed you to spec ceramic coating as well.

Mike

[Spawne32]

I wouldn't be surprised if they supply the parts to hpa and jhm as well. I know one of the chinese companies allowed you to spec ceramic coating as well.

Mike

Yeh if I ordered straight from the supplier on alibaba I could specify specific customization to the turbo as well. Not to mention the price starts at 250 for the entire turbo. lol For example...

https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...240e470dYwGZoE

[Spawne32]

Here's another big question, has anyone ever tried using a different matching CHRA that potentially fits in the exhaust/compressor housing of the K04 for the B7? I found CHRA's from Mamba that come in a couple different styles....


https://shop.mambatek.com/9-7-Turbo-...4-007-0482.htm
Compressor Wheel spec
Inducer OD : 46.39 mm
Exducer OD : 56.08 mm
Blade : 7+7
Material : Billet forge aluminum 2618

Turbine wheel
Inducer OD: 50mm
Exducer OD: 44.5mm
Blade : 9 blade
Material: Inconel 713

https://shop.mambatek.com/Cartridge-...e-007-0145.htm

Compressor Wheel spec
Inducer OD : 46.39 mm
Exducer OD: 56.08 mm
Blade :6+6
Material : Billet forge aluminum 2618

Turbine wheel
Inducer OD: 50mm
Exducer OD: 44.5mm
Blade : 9 blade (Performance type)
Material: Inconel 713

https://shop.mambatek.com/Turbo-CHRA...4-007-0144.htm

Compressor Wheel spec
Inducer OD : 46.39 mm
Exducer OD: 56.08 mm
Blade :6+6
Material : Billet forge aluminum 2618

Turbine wheel
Inducer OD: 50mm
Exducer OD: 44.5mm
Blade : 12 blade
Material: Inconel 713

These CHRA's fit


2003-10 Audi S3 with 2.0L TFSI quer, transversal Engine
2003-10 Audi TT'S with 2.0L TFSI quer, transversal Engine
2003- Audi S3 2.0L TFSI (8P/PA) Engine BHZ
2003- Audi TT S 2.0L TFSI (8J) Engine BHZ
2003- Seat Leon 2.0L TFSI Cupra Engine BWJ, CDLD

these are TFSI engines, and should use the exact same housings if im not mistaken.

[Spawne32]

heres another K04 CHRA they sell...oddly similar to the frankenturbo

https://shop.mambatek.com/9-7-Upgrad...4-007-0148.htm

Compressor Wheel spec
Inducer OD : 51.03 mm
Exducer OD : 61.98 mm
Blade : 7+7
Material : Billet forge aluminum 2618
Modification required on OE comp housing.

Turbine wheel
Inducer OD: 50mm
Exducer OD: 44.5mm
Blade : 9 blade
Material: Inconel 713

I suspect that frankenturbo's 10 blade mixed flow turbine and 62.4mm exducer billet compressor wheel is just the design being played around with to achieve a certain power result. It seems like the CHRA's are all the same dimensions and the housings are modified for the specific VW/Audi application from the factory, this would make sense given the varying combos of hybrid turbos out there. Part's being readily available from chinese suppliers for these, you could assemble your own "custom" K04 hybrid turbo and sell it under your own brand name and only pay in the hundreds for each turbo and resell for in the thousands.

[Spawne32]

If I could find the compressor housing bare bones, we could assemble these turbo's ourselves for half the price of what they charge with better components. lol I've only been able to locate the exhaust side for the K04-064 for the S3, which would technically work but I need a matching compressor side for longitudinal applications.

[Jezza]

Just machine the K03 compressor housing to fit the k04 wheel. That's all the compressor housings on these k04s really are. Or, you could modify the original housings so that the inlet and outlet works for a longitudinal application.

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[Spawne32]

Just machine the K03 compressor housing to fit the k04 wheel. That's all the compressor housings on these k04s really are. Or, you could modify the original housings so that the inlet and outlet works for a longitudinal application.

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Is that all they are? Machined K03 housings? Because I cannot find an OEM k04 that comes in this application at all. I dont even know how I would machine it. Sucks cus I found an adjustable wastegate actuator as well that can be used in this same application. https://shop.mambatek.com/Turbo-Wast...6-023-0200.htm

Looks like your right, looks like all the JHM turbo is "Re-profiled or "bored out", aluminum compressor housing with tighter wheel clearance. " which is a bitch because I don't know where I'd get a K03 housing bored out and how much it would cost. Could negate the savings I was hoping I would find here. My only hope rests in buying the fully assembled "ebay" turbo and seeing if it will accept a S3 CHRA. I bought the 7+7 compressor wheel with the 9 blade turbine and gonna see how it compares size wise to what the ebay turbo comes with. Also not to sure about the exhaust housings as well. One seems to have a shrouded turbine wheel with a larger overall flange, which seems to match up with B7 housings, the other seems to resemble more of a frankenturbo style with an unshrouded outlet.

[Jezza]

Why replace the whole chra? It might be sufficient replace the bearings and seals with genuine parts and having the turbine and compressor rebalanced.

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[Spawne32]

Cheaper if you consider the cost of the custom 7+7/9 blade wheels, cost of the oem rebuild kit, and rebalancing. whole chra comes balanced with oem seals and bearings.

[Jezza]

Why replace all of that anyway? Just send it off to have the balance checked and run it. Lol. Mid-west turbo will balance the turbine and compressor for $55.00. If it really is the same manufacturerer then I can't imagine the bearings or seals are any different.

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[Spawne32]

Why replace all of that anyway? Just send it off to have the balance checked and run it. Lol. Mid-west turbo will balance the turbine and compressor for $55.00. If it really is the same manufacturerer then I can't imagine the bearings or seals are any different.

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That's what I'm going to look at when I get it, mid west wouldnt take the entire turbo, they want just the wheels and the thrust section, not the CHRA. I contacted a local company about balancing here as well to see if they will take the CHRA if I remove it.

[Spawne32]

your gonna laugh but i sent these specifications off to about a half dozen chinese suppliers for quotes, i have one offering me the full turbo assembled with OEM components (so they claim) thats balanced before assembly for 379 dollars shipped. lol I requested full specifications regarding the wheel sizes on compressor and turbine side and the materials they are using.

[A4 Centaur]

^ We all got ripped off! Lol Lesson learned. Next one is from Taiwan or Shanghai

[Spawne32]

^ We all got ripped off! Lol Lesson learned. Next one is from Taiwan or Shanghai

Anyone who bought the F23 for 1600 def paid way too much that I can tell you, not sure about any of the other hybrids but I suspect they have similar roots.

[A4 Centaur]

^Got me thinking about grabbing a "genuine" K04 and then have the jet-coating done locally.

[Perry01]

^Got me thinking about grabbing a "genuine" K04 and then have the jet-coating done locally.

+1 on the genuine K04. Why split pennies on a turbocharger that you are going to install on a $35k plus car?

[Spawne32]

+1 on the genuine K04. Why split pennies on a turbocharger that you are going to install on a $35k plus car?

You paid 35k for your B8? lol Cus I'm not nearly that deep into this car, including repairs and the price of the car.

[Spawne32]

^Got me thinking about grabbing a "genuine" K04 and then have the jet-coating done locally.

Do you have the part number for a genuine K04 that fits the longitudinal application? Besides the CTS turbo which is the only one I know that genuine. My thinking was that there was no longitudinal genuine K04, only transverse applications had them. Mamba sells the OEM k04 but the housing is different.

https://shop.mambatek.com/Genuine-Ne...I-003-0586.htm

[Perry01]

You paid 35k for your B8? lol Cus I'm not nearly that deep into this car, including repairs and the price of the car.

Regardless of what you paid for you A4, MSRP on a Premium Plus B8/8.5 range anywhere from $35k to $45k. My point was that it’s not a Honda Civic.

[Spawne32]

Regardless of what you paid for you A4, MSRP on a Premium Plus B8/8.5 range anywhere from $35k to $45k. My point was that it’s not a Honda Civic.

I think that is the point though, its not worth more then a honda civic to me, or anyone else. Dumping thousands into some "premium" turbo kit that I full well know the company only paid 1/16th of what they sell them for isnt what I am all about. Plus, as I have said, many times before, you cannot make the argument that OEM (borg warner or IHI) in this instance, or any other OEM component for that matter, is any better then the supposedly "cheap shit". OEM turbo on my car was replaced at 65k for a bad wastegate, along with many others, some at even lower mileage, and guess what, my K03 or JH5, whatever it may be, is on its last leg again, along with the trans, engine, and a whole host of other parts that will not get replaced with OEM stuff either.

Let's see what happens with this, im roughly $1200 deep right now between the ebay turbo and performance K04 CHRA from the S3. If it works, and it puts down similar or better numbers then any of the other offerings, and lasts even half the time the OEM one lasted, I think it was worth it to me.

[A4 Centaur]

^ Yea I think my Avant was 54k? in 2012 bucks. For the money I have put in her, I could have....but I love the Avant more than most things I could have or already have. Not the Ducati though. She's a special creature in her own right as well.

[bhvrdr]

Do you have the part number for a genuine K04 that fits the longitudinal application? Besides the CTS turbo which is the only one I know that genuine. My thinking was that there was no longitudinal genuine K04, only transverse applications had them. Mamba sells the OEM k04 but the housing is different.

https://shop.mambatek.com/Genuine-Ne...I-003-0586.htm

The cts and the unitronic is a genuine k04 for transverse that is slightly modified with welding to the cold side to make fit. Ive had both btw.

You can see unitronic does very little modification to the housing. They instead focus on using their own hose design to the mate up to the stock location intercooler hose. Then Unitronic mives one of the exhaust housing studs to allow any oem style cat, testpipe, hfc etc to mate up on that side.

Cts welds qite a bit into the cold side to mate up to the stock ic hose location. Then you use their testpipe or hfc.

Anyone could do these modifications...

My Unitronic k04...


My cts k04...

[Spawne32]

So that's how much of a profit margin there is on those two kits, CTS being $2400 dollars, and Unitronic being $2999.99. You can get that K04 for $1650 genuine from mamba, whos probably STILL making a good profit on it as is. You just need to either have a welder or the ability to make an adapter piece for the outlet. I think the stock specifications on those are...

Compressor Wheel spec
Inducer OD : 46.39 mm
Exducer OD: 56.08 mm
Blade :6+6
Material : Billet forge aluminum 2618

Turbine wheel
Inducer OD: 50mm
Exducer OD: 44.5mm
Blade : 12 blade
Material: Inconel 713

Unless there are variations?

[bhvrdr]

So that's how much of a profit margin there is on those two kits, CTS being $2400 dollars, and Unitronic being $2999.99. You can get that K04 for $1650 genuine from mamba, whos probably STILL making a good profit on it as is. You just need to either have a welder or the ability to make an adapter piece for the outlet. I think the stock specifications on those are...

Compressor Wheel spec
Inducer OD : 46.39 mm
Exducer OD: 56.08 mm
Blade :6+6
Material : Billet forge aluminum 2618

Turbine wheel
Inducer OD: 50mm
Exducer OD: 44.5mm
Blade : 12 blade
Material: Inconel 713

Unless there are variations?

I find the unitronic kit to be a decent deal. For $2999 you get the genuine turbo that is modded to fit oem location, some nice completely custom hoses that allow you to run the modified location bpv, and completely dialed in programming with technical support to make anything right. I literally installed my turbo in a day and was dialed in running perfect logs on the first run. Theres alot to be said for that.

The only other way id do it us just buy the fake k04 from china for 600 and the apr tune for $1049 fully loaded. Still that could be more headache than its worth.

For me the cts kit doesn't make sense. Id need to spend 2400 for the turbo and 1049 for apr software.

For the jhm and hpa it makes zero sense since youre overpaying by 1000 for the turbo.

[Spawne32]

Tuning seems to be the biggest issue here, even with having eurodyne, im not confident his K04 or F23 tunes are anything but crap. I'm squeezing 22psi out of the K03 right now using his F23 base file, and I've managed to dial it in quite well, but out of the box it was total crap even on the stage 1 and stage 2. His stage 1 files were running 10.5:1 AFR's at WOT, car was puking black smoke out of the back of it, and the lambda tables are SET THIS WAY!! So yeh, I can agree with you on that you pay for a good quality tune. This is all experimentation right now, it may turn out to be nothing and I may wind up having to send everything back. I have 30 days for the return period if I don't want the parts, so we will know one way or another.

Speaking of installation of the new turbo, what would you say was the most difficult part doing it yourself?

[bhvrdr]

Tuning seems to be the biggest issue here, even with having eurodyne, im not confident his K04 or F23 tunes are anything but crap. I'm squeezing 22psi out of the K03 right now using his F23 base file, and I've managed to dial it in quite well, but out of the box it was total crap even on the stage 1 and stage 2. His stage 1 files were running 10.5:1 AFR's at WOT, car was puking black smoke out of the back of it, and the lambda tables are SET THIS WAY!! So yeh, I can agree with you on that you pay for a good quality tune. This is all experimentation right now, it may turn out to be nothing and I may wind up having to send everything back. I have 30 days for the return period if I don't want the parts, so we will know one way or another.

Speaking of installation of the new turbo, what would you say was the most difficult part doing it yourself?

Alot of people spend too much time on the midpipe to downpipe because you're pretty much guaranteed to snap the little studs and have to drill them out. I decided to avoid that hassle and just buy this 200 midpipe...

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F142898184194

The othe pita was getting the turbo out with the cat attached. I should have done that with the car in service position. But i couldnt wiggle it out without the car in service position so i had to disconnect the cat from the turbo. I found the last bolt behind the turbo to be a major pita.

I think nect time ill just disconnect midpioe from downpipe and go service position and slide the turbo forward then out with cat attached

Mike

[Spawne32]

lol so basically everything ive already done, im curious, since we have the same bad dog motorsports downpipe, did yours rub right at the first bend under the car? I had to....modify....mine with a sledge hammer a bit to give it some clearance, the bend was not tight enough and everytime i went around left turns, the 3mm of clearance it had at rest was not enough to keep it from vibrating the tunnel.

[bhvrdr]

lol so basically everything ive already done, im curious, since we have the same bad dog motorsports downpipe, did yours rub right at the first bend under the car? I had to....modify....mine with a sledge hammer a bit to give it some clearance, the bend was not tight enough and everytime i went around left turns, the 3mm of clearance it had at rest was not enough to keep it from vibrating the tunnel.

Haha yeah every once in a great while under just the right turning with the car on an unlevel ground ill get a sound from it probably rubbing. It looked like it may be an issue when i was installing it. I dont drive the car alot and im still keeping my distance from it after the turbo install but ill probably do a little "shaping" of it soon too.

[A4 Centaur]

Connecting the coolant lines from beneath the car. PITA.

[Perry01]

Connecting the coolant lines from beneath the car. PITA.

Yea, those banjo bolts were a pain getting threaded. My exhaust bolts/studs weren’t a problem. I had only 30k miles on the odometer so things were not too frozen on.

btw, I bought my CTS K04 (and HFC) from a forum member here in the classified section. He bought it brand new but wrecked his car before installing the turbo. I got it still in the original box for $1500. My tune was just a $50 upgrade since I already had their Stage 2.



Here it is before installation:

[Poodini]

Yea, those banjo bolts were a pain getting threaded. My exhaust bolts/studs weren’t a problem. I had only 30k miles on the odometer so things were not too frozen on.

btw, I bought my CTS K04 (and HFC) from a forum member here in the classified section. He bought it brand new but wrecked his car before installing the turbo. I got it still in the original box for $1500. My tune was just a $50 upgrade since I already had their Stage 2.



Here it is before installation:

It’s GLORIOUS!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shaunm82]

Yea, those banjo bolts were a pain getting threaded. My exhaust bolts/studs weren’t a problem. I had only 30k miles on the odometer so things were not too frozen on.

btw, I bought my CTS K04 (and HFC) from a forum member here in the classified section. He bought it brand new but wrecked his car before installing the turbo. I got it still in the original box for $1500. My tune was just a $50 upgrade since I already had their Stage 2.

$50 to go from Stage 2 to K04 tune wise is awesome! Wish it was like that for all tuners!

[Poodini]

Connecting the coolant lines from beneath the car. PITA.

Nothing better than dealing with a stripped triple square when trying to replace the oil return line...and of course it just so happens to be the last bolt needing to come off...🤬❗️


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[Spawne32]

Ebay turbo is here, looks like a 6+6 compressor, 12 blade full back turbine wheel. OEM turbo gasket fits the exhaust side perfectly with no modifications needed, gonna take some measurements of the outlet. The electronics it come with are probably junk, the N75 valve it came with was broken right out of the box, nipple broke right off of it. Not sure how these sizes match up, still looking into that. The CHRA spins very roughly, like its binding on something internally, not sure if its because its a journal bearing or what, never had a journal bearing turbo do this.