B8 Ko4 owners follow up thread

[Alex1188]

I don't think UM specifically comments on the hardware itself, at least not yet up until now. I'm the guy running k04-R with UM btw incase you wonder.

I was just throwing my thoughts out there, but ither than those two things this jhm k04 r is supposed to be just like a real k04. So...

[onedumslack]

So it's possible since this is all heresay, just like an IE intake manifold, you get poor results and loss of power if the tuner hasn't figured out how to tune for it, yet IE does know how to tune for it gets an increase in power.

[spin0rz]

I was just throwing my thoughts out there, but ither than those two things this jhm k04 r is supposed to be just like a real k04. So...

Actually, every modifications they bring to a turbo is.. And I'll quote them "to be up to oem standard or better ". Even if it's a k04, it has been modified in ways that either are meant to outperform or act differently.

The example they've given is how.. A b7 with a k04 and a b7 with a k07-r beat the b7 k04 by pulling ahead due to a beefier top end.

The clipped wing is "supposed" to give a better mid and top end, and not die put in high rpm ranges like a normal k04 would.

This hasn't been proven so far. Reports do show it takes longer to spool Vs a regular k04. Let's see if it can hold boost till redline, if it offers a Better torque curve, a flatter one.

Let's see if someone can tweak and make use of those supposedly improvements.

Not everyone wants a full spool at 4K


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[AUDacIouS4]

UM has tuned hundreds of BW k04 setups. It's simple: they requested boost targets like a k04 and the JHM K04-R wasn't able to meet those targets via the logs. The conclusion is that the k04-R doesn't flow as many lbs/min as a standard BW k04. It's like running a k03 turbo with a k04 tune and expecting the k03 to meet the boost targets... it can't. With the right tuning, the k04-R will shine in its own way. It just might end up somewhere in between a k03 and a BW k04??

[Spawne32]

Kinda glad I didnt pull the trigger on that group buy lol

[Jake@JHM]

UM has tuned hundreds of BW k04 setups. It's simple: they requested boost targets like a k04 and the JHM K04-R wasn't able to meet those targets via the logs. The conclusion is that the k04-R doesn't flow as many lbs/min as a standard BW k04. It's like running a k03 turbo with a k04 tune and expecting the k03 to meet the boost targets... it can't. With the right tuning, the k04-R will shine in its own way. It just might end up somewhere in between a k03 and a BW k04??

There isn't a conclusion yet. The K04-R has the same size wheels as an OEM S3 K04 so it is not like running a k03 with k04 software. There is an issue somewhere and when it is found it will be fixed.

[Alex1188]

There isn't a conclusion yet. The K04-R has the same size wheels as an OEM S3 K04 so it is not like running a k03 with k04 software. There is an issue somewhere and when it is found it will be fixed.

Jake curious as my question wasn't answered last time I asked you.... Does anyone at JHM physically check these K04R turbos before they are sent out? Like physically check wastegates are set right? Or anything like that?

[Jake@JHM]

Jake curious as my question wasn't answered last time I asked you.... Does anyone at JHM physically check these K04R turbos before they are sent out? Like physically check wastegates are set right? Or anything like that?

Yes, final assembly is done here and wastegates are set. I believe I did answer your question as I can recall answering it. Maybe I got side tracked and forgot to hit post?

[Alex1188]

Yes, final assembly is done here and wastegates are set. I believe I did answer your question as I can recall answering it. Maybe I got side tracked and forgot to hit post?

IDK, I could be wrong, you may have, I don't recall seeing it, but either way its been answered now. I appreciate it sir! Was just curious if maybe this was done by the manufacturer and had a possible mis adjusted wastegate. Seems to me with the logs that were posted it would be a good suspect for falling boost pressure. That or he has a horrible boost leak.

[Jake@JHM]

IDK, I could be wrong, you may have, I don't recall seeing it, but either way its been answered now. I appreciate it sir! Was just curious if maybe this was done by the manufacturer and had a possible mis adjusted wastegate. Seems to me with the logs that were posted it would be a good suspect for falling boost pressure. That or he has a horrible boost leak.

Well unfortunately we are not all robots yet so it is possible a wastegate could have been set improperly. It hasn't happened yet and we set many wastegates between K04-Rs, RS6-Rs amd TD05H-Rs but it's possible.

[Brandon K.]

Jake

What base boost should the K04-R wastegate be set to?


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[Alex1188]

Well unfortunately we are not all robots yet so it is possible a wastegate could have been set improperly. It hasn't happened yet and we set many wastegates between K04-Rs, RS6-Rs amd TD05H-Rs but it's possible.

What the pressure/crack measurement your team has been setting these to out of curiosity? Maybe we could rule this out, have him log the car with the n75 valve unplugged which would divert all pressure to the wastegate and run base pressure. Log it and see what the max pressure he can run is. Would give us a good idea at least I would suspect.

[B1GW3AV3R]

Can anyone tell me if this is a normal sound, this is an HPA K04 right when I hit around 5k rpm it makes a whining sound , 2nd gear roll at 20mph. Private road..


https://youtu.be/3dPD_FUjUMM

[Alex1188]

Can anyone tell me if this is a normal sound, this is an HPA K04 right when I hit around 5k rpm it makes a whining sound , 2nd gear roll at 20mph. Private road..


https://youtu.be/3dPD_FUjUMM

That's the compressor riding the surge line, it's normal, that's aggressive tuning.

[B1GW3AV3R]

That's the compressor riding the surge line, it's normal, that's aggressive tuning.

I wish I knew more about cars... Every time I hear a noise I shit myself. Lol

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[Alex1188]

I wish I knew more about cars... Every time I hear a noise I shit myself. Lol

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My F23 will do it as well when I have the boost turned up. Aggressive tuning makes for a fun filled car, you get the whole experience... Sounds and power.

[audisean1]

After I installed my HPA k04, I had a similar noise under higher rpm and load. I had an intercooler clamp that was bottomed out and leaking.
I would recommend everyone to pressure test after any kind of turbo, intercooler, piping install.
It could be normal but you never know and might as well make sure your setup is 100% before pushing it and blaming the tune.


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[Poodini]

Calling on @A4 Centaur and @ Poodini for some logs!

Yo! Brief update. The k04-R is up and running since late Monday. I ran into a minor setback which should be corrected tomorrow.
Also, I'm currently running it with my current 3.0l TDi intercooler. Thus far it's held up fine. My next install will be to hook this new FMIC courtesy of ECS Tuning! Once that's on, I'll feel a little better about throwing some performance numbers up. Til then, enjoy for those who bought a

Stay tuned...


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[SleeperCar]

Well this is materializing in interesting ways, I'm looking forward to legit feedback and logs to support.

[Fastbke170]

My F23 will do it as well when I have the boost turned up. Aggressive tuning makes for a fun filled car, you get the whole experience... Sounds and power.

Wow that noise would scare the shit out of me. Sounds like turbine hitting housing.

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[B1GW3AV3R]

After I installed my HPA k04, I had a similar noise under higher rpm and load. I had an intercooler clamp that was bottomed out and leaking.
I would recommend everyone to pressure test after any kind of turbo, intercooler, piping install.
It could be normal but you never know and might as well make sure your setup is 100% before pushing it and blaming the tune.


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I'm running APRs FMIC, I'm thinking of getting better aftermarket hoses and a new turbo inlet. I'm not sure how to do a pressure test

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[poweredbyaudi7]

I'm running APRs FMIC, I'm thinking of getting better aftermarket hoses and a new turbo inlet. I'm not sure how to do a pressure test

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You could make one of these, or buy this one to be lazy like me

http://turboboostleaktesters.com/vw-...o-intake-pipe/

[A4x]

I need to do a pressure test as well. It seems easy enough, I'm just not sure what to do with the PCV. I know you have to unhook and plug something so you don't blow the pressure back into the PCV.

Is it just the one line that runs from the turbo inlet to the intake manifold? Disconnect that from the turbo and plug it?

[audisean1]

Yes that is it. The connection at the back of the intake manifold.
Then listen and/or use soapy water at all connections and components.


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[AllroadCorbin]

Just logged 2nd gear. Spikes at just over 24 psi and at red line was at 19.2 psi.

This is calculated from mbar and then atmospheric pressure subtracted


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[A4x]

Just logged 2nd gear. Spikes at just over 24 psi and at red line was at 19.2 psi.

This is calculated from mbar and then atmospheric pressure subtracted


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MAF g/s?

[AllroadCorbin]

MAG g/s?

I'll do that in a few


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[AllroadCorbin]

I'll do that in a few


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Shows 902. So nothing crazy. Clearly there's a lot of elements at play to make power


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[A4x]

902 what units? That doesnt make sense unless it is kg/h which 902 kg/h = 250 g/s. But if youre logging the same parameter we are at the MAF, the readout is in g/s.

What field was it?
Are you using VCDS or torque?

[AllroadCorbin]

902 what units? That soesnt make sense unless it is kg/h which 902 kg/h = 250 g/s. But if youre logging the same parameter we are at the MAF, the readout is in g/s.

What field was it?
Are you using VCDS or torque?

APR mobile. 902 kg/h


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[A4x]

Thanks for logging! Any chance to get your N75 duty cycle? Maybe a 3rd gear pull with a graph? (If you're 8 speed auto, otherwise 2nd might be ok if manual).

So we have a CTS kit logged with APR mobile app, spiking 24 psi and tapering to 19 psi with 250 g/s airflow.

My JHM turbo logged with VCDS spiked at 22 psi and tapered to 16 psi with MAF 260 g/s. My N75 duty was pegged at 100% tho.

[AllroadCorbin]

I'm running a full tank of E85 right now. I usually notice higher peak boost on 93. I think the timing advance takes care of some of the extra load usually done by boost. 26 psi vs 24.5 on E85. I would assume more boost needs more air so I'll try on that's too. We are also measuring using difference devices so who knows


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[A4x]

Yea VCDS vs APR mobile vs Torque might give slightly different readings?

I also saw a parameter like "airflow through throttle body" and that was reading out in kg/h but was significantly less than my MAF signal in g/s. I'm confused
I didn't know there was any sensor in the throttle body for this.

I wonder where your kg/h signal is coming from and if we can compare it to my g/s signal.

[IHave2Turbos]

If you guys are trying to build a database you need to settle on a logging standard so that the data is meaningful. Maybe a Google Sheets document with the Fields labeled, I would suggest something like:

Platform: Trans: Fuel: Tune: Turbo: MAF g/s: N75 Duty Cycle: Gear # Peak Boost Requested: Peak Boost Actual: Altitude:

B8 6MT 93 XXX K04 hybrid 300/g/s XX% 3rd 20psi 19psi +100ft

Otherwise this thread is going to be a mess of meaningless singular data points.

Field Rationale:

• Platform: prefacelift or not, subtle changes, Intake manifold, extra injector, different lpfp for E85...
• Trans: This will affect shift points, gearing etc
• Fuel: 91/93/100/E85, all make huge differences to overall tune/power
• Tune: duh
• Turbo: try to create a consensus around how each custom turbo performs
• MAF g/s: Coupled with altitude this should provide a mechanism to estimate "power" in a properly performing vehicle. Indicates "power"
• N75 Duty Cycle: Quantify how "well" the turbo is making boost, is it ragged edge barely meeting requested at redline for example?
• Gear: Makes a difference for load based calculations
• Peak Requested:
• Peak Actual: is the turbo actually performing? are we outside compressor efficiency map?
• Altitude: This plays into MAF reading and air density which has a major impact on overall power.

[johnnySV]

thank you @IHave2Turbos !! i would be enthusiastic to contribute to a google doc. particularly with my HPA k04 + IM kit on Meth.

otherwise garbage in = garbage out, and frankly i feel this thread has turned into garbage.


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[AllroadCorbin]

Ok if somebody wants to set that up and we can PM them our emails.

We can even make excel tabs for dyno figures for various set ups/dyno types

I think we already have a 1/4 mile sheet no?

Regardless organized data would be a welcome change on this forum. I can't make one right now but I could potentially this weekend


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[AllroadCorbin]

FYI I calculated my boost incorrectly.

On E85 it read out 2746 mbar. I'm at sea level which is 1013 mbar.

So 1.733 bar X 14.7 = 25.47 psi peak

The redline calculation redone shows 19.6 psi


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[AllroadCorbin]

Not to drag this on but I don't see the point of comparing g/s airflow. Since actual measured boost is the direct result, who cares what the other number is. There's so many variables in that and possible inefficiencies. Measuring the actual boost that results at the manifold is what y'all should be comparing. That's the real flow haha


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[adamazing]

The first step is deciding which application to measure with...

Unless you want to create three tabs of spreadsheets, one or each respective app (VCDS / Torque / APR, etc).

[IHave2Turbos]

Not to drag this on but I don't see the point of comparing g/s airflow. Since actual measured boost is the direct result, who cares what the other number is. There's so many variables in that and possible inefficiencies. Measuring the actual boost that results at the manifold is what y'all should be comparing. That's the real flow haha


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The MAF g/s is the maximum possible amount of air flowing into the closed system (assuming no leaks allowing in un-metered air) and it is directly related to the theoretical maximum amount of power the engine can make/is making.

So in theory, Company 1 K04 reading 300 g/s is likely making more power than Company 2 K04 reading 280 g/s, the differences in timing, n75 duty, fueling, requested boost vs actual boost would be factors telling us "why" they are making more power.

Disclaimer: IANAT (i am not a tuner...) so please school me if this is wrong