Blowing blue smoke for a minute or so after start.

**V1nny** · 04-05-2016 10:53 AM

Got oil change yesterday, Rotella T6, they overfilled it just a hair over max. Started cold car in the morning today, fairly cold spring morning, and when accelerated (under 3500 rpm) off the first traffic light next to the house noticed good amount of bluish smoke from the tailpipes. Compression was measured recently, 5 cylinder 170, one 150. Valve stem seals? Should I start looking for a good used engine again? I was looking for a while when was ready to give up on fixing my misfires, but that is fixed now. I have manual 01 Allroad with K-04 stage 3, timing belt done about 30K miles ago, total miles is about 150. Any ideas?

**ben0069** · 04-05-2016 11:34 AM

Split nozzle...?

**V1nny** · 04-05-2016 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by ben0069

Split nozzle...?

googled "Split nozzle", but did not find anything relevant. Is this some sort of fuel injector damage?

**brokenwrench** · 04-05-2016 12:31 PM

I'm still learning the particulars about Audi's, but this sounds like a common problem for a turbo charged engine when it is consistently not given enough time to warm up sufficiently before being pushed to high rpm. Did the blue smoke stop after the engine warmed up?

This was my first concern when I was looking for a donor vehicle for my slipped timing belt and I was careful to check for it.

**V1nny** · 04-05-2016 01:05 PM

once warmed up, no smoke. Not sure if 3500 rpm is too high with synthetic oil with 50 degree ambient temperature.

**brokenwrench** · 04-05-2016 04:20 PM

It's a cumulative effect. Under higher boost, the cylinder temps rise which accelerates the rate of heat transfer into the aluminum pistons. Aluminum has a higher thermal expansion coefficient than the cast iron block, thus the pistons "swell" faster than the cylinder walls. The swollen pistons wear away the cylinder walls and the outer edge of the pistons. Once the engine is up to full operating temp the block and piston have reached an equilibrium in terms of their thermal expansion and the smoke goes away.

When referring to a "cold" engine, usually the term is used to indicate an engine that is at some point significantly below normal operating temp. For reference, the combustion chamber surface temps can reach an excess of 500 degrees Fahrenheit depending on the engine and operating conditions, so 50 degrees ambient temp is still pretty darn cold considering the combustion chamber still has 450 degrees to climb before reaching equilibrium. I was told by a few people to let a turbo charged engine idle for at least 2 minutes before driving even in the summer, although I realize that's not entirely practical in everyday situations. But to add, I think the max boost pressure on the K04 occurs between 2500 and 4000 rpm, someone correct me if I'm wrong though.....

**4rings2turbos** · 04-05-2016 05:21 PM

^ please post more haha.

This is the kind of info and explanation that makes us all smarter.

There is a debate about letting the engine idle vs taking it real easy under operating temp. But that's for another thread.

**Racin2redline** · 04-05-2016 06:26 PM

my car does that sometimes too, usually after I overfill it a touch. I've actually smoked out my drive way lol.
I wouldn't worry too much, sure it's a bit scary to see the eery lingering blue smoke but just monitor it's occurance and check oil consumption is all you can do.

as far as warm up, I usually stick with 3-5min and drive gingerly until operating temp and wait for oil temp to come up before really getting into it. any extended idle peroids are no good for any motor, fuel dilution and no load doesn't help it get up to operating temp

**Black-Forest** · 04-05-2016 07:30 PM

Do you usually use Rotella? Or have you switched brands or oil weight?

**4rings2turbos** · 04-05-2016 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Racin2redline

no load doesn't help it get up to operating temp

This is key and why I personally go with driving essentially immediately, but keeping engine speed at 1,750-ish max until oil needle moves then I 'open it up' to maybe 2,200 lol.

**V1nny** · 04-05-2016 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Black-Forest

Do you usually use Rotella? Or have you switched brands or oil weight?

Used Rotella couple of times in the 4 years owning the car, but usually stick with M1 0W-40. I also heard that Shell recently reduced zinc content in Rotella to improve emission numbers. This time Rotella was on sale for 19/gallon.

**Robsa6** · 04-05-2016 09:24 PM

it shouldn't matter what type of oil is used un regards to smoking with it cold. I wouldn't worry about it and I wouldn't wait to drive the car. The idling cold engine has "warm up" maps and they are enrichened causing extra gas to be introduced into the cylinder washing the walls down of oil and causing an unlubricated cylinder wall increasing wear rather than lessining it. Start the car, drive it under 2000 rpm till its at least midway up the temp gauge and stay out of boost until the oil temp gauge starts to move and you will increase the longevity of the engine and the turbos. If the level is high you risk ruining the cats provided you've got them on the car and it will likely smoke some not to mention the engine will labor trying to run with too much oil in it causing you to push it harder to feel like it normally does. That's why there is a "max" mark on the stick

**ben0069** · 04-06-2016 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by V1nny

googled "Split nozzle", but did not find anything relevant. Is this some sort of fuel injector damage?

yes mine was blue smoking, the injector nozzle had a hairline crack down it, but that was smoking all the time, I see yours stops when engine is warm.

**V1nny** · 04-06-2016 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by ben0069

yes mine was blue smoking, the injector nozzle had a hairline crack down it, but that was smoking all the time, I see yours stops when engine is warm.

I have new green giant injectors, replaced them in December, troubleshooting misfires.

**brokenwrench** · 04-06-2016 07:39 AM

If your engine does indeed have the problem of worn out cylinder walls due to swollen pistons, unfortunately the only fix would be to replace the engine/block/pistons or have the cylinders reamed to be perfectly straight again and install oversized pistons. The problem with diagnosing this type of problem is you can't necessarily catch it with a compression test since a compression test should be performed with the engine warmed up and thus the pistons/cylinders would be in their "equilibrium" state. But maybe it's possible you just have bad turbo bearings/seals instead.

**Racin2redline** · 04-06-2016 12:01 PM

it's because you overfilled the car with oil. that's why there is a warning saying overfilling will damage the catalyst

I bet it doesn't happen again once oil is at normal level. trust me I've done it a few times with this car Its so hard to gauge oil level unless the car is perfectly flat and hasn't been running in a few hours

**Racin2redline** · 04-06-2016 12:04 PM

a dead turbo makes hella bad noises and the smoke produced is actually very thick and white/bluish and relentless because it's being vaporized in the exhaust, not being burned by the motor which causes the lighter mostly bluish smoke

**V1nny** · 04-06-2016 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Racin2redline

it's because you overfilled the car with oil. that's why there is a warning saying overfilling will damage the catalyst

I bet it doesn't happen again once oil is at normal level. trust me I've done it a few times with this car Its so hard to gauge oil level unless the car is perfectly flat and hasn't been running in a few hours

Makes sense. Wish someone explains me the oil level logic. So the procedure was: Start with 2x gallon jugs of Rotella, first pour one quart into empty bottle and save for topping off (I usually add about half a quart 3 or 4 times between changes), then drain the oil, put new filter and put both jugs into the engine. If my math serves me well (I am still thinking metric, even after living in this country for 20 years), I should have get a perfect level with remaining oil. What I really got, is literally a hair above the max level on a cold engine. I guess it would be more than hair on the hot engine? Will check level again tonight after driving home from work.

**brokenwrench** · 04-06-2016 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by V1nny

Makes sense. Wish someone explains me the oil level logic. So the procedure was: Start with 2x gallon jugs of Rotella, first pour one quart into empty bottle and save for topping off (I usually add about half a quart 3 or 4 times between changes), then drain the oil, put new filter and put both jugs into the engine. If my math serves me well (I am still thinking metric, even after living in this country for 20 years), I should have get a perfect level with remaining oil. What I really got, is literally a hair above the max level on a cold engine. I guess it would be more than hair on the hot engine? Will check level again tonight after driving home from work.

Hopefully that's your actual problem and not what I was talking about earlier. Being an engineer it's always possible I assume the worse case when I don't fully understand something, kind of a way to force myself to be thorough in my evaluation.

**V1nny** · 04-06-2016 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Racin2redline

a dead turbo makes hella bad noises and the smoke produced is actually very thick and white/bluish and relentless because it's being vaporized in the exhaust, not being burned by the motor which causes the lighter mostly bluish smoke

It would be impossible to miss a completely dead turbo, but turbo leaking a bit of oil into exhaust manifold sounds plausible to me. My K04's were rebuilt with OEM cartridges and upgraded 360 bearings by a local shop and installed about 30K miles ago.

Located a guy selling low miles motor in RI, anyone would suggest a cheap way of delivering it to Washington DC area? I would slowly bolt all upgrades (2.8 camshafts, higher flow manifolds, etc) to it, in anticipation of my problems going worse.

**ChicagosPhantom** · 04-07-2016 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by V1nny

It would be impossible to miss a completely dead turbo, but turbo leaking a bit of oil into exhaust manifold sounds plausible to me. My K04's were rebuilt with OEM cartridges and upgraded 360 bearings by a local shop and installed about 30K miles ago.

Located a guy selling low miles motor in RI, anyone would suggest a cheap way of delivering it to Washington DC area? I would slowly bolt all upgrades (2.8 camshafts, higher flow manifolds, etc) to it, in anticipation of my problems going worse.

When was the PCV (spider hose) replaced?

**V1nny** · 04-07-2016 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by ChicagosPhantom

When was the PCV (spider hose) replaced?

December 2015 with aftermarket silicone like this:
https://store.034motorsport.com/sili...placement.html

**ChicagosPhantom** · 04-07-2016 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by V1nny

December 2015 with aftermarket silicone like this:
https://store.034motorsport.com/sili...placement.html

I'm experiencing similar/same problems as you...I narrowed down my to a boost/vacuum leak and bad PCV...
I'm running lean as my tailpipes are covered in black gunk,also when I start it cold it throws grayish smoke after RPM's drop a bit at idle,also downshifting to a stop it makes really nice cloud of smoke following me.lol
I'm stage 2 tho.