Confirming bad water pump

[andrew96]

Hey guys,

So I think my water pump just failed. Here are the symptoms....overheating and no heat.

I opened up the hood and tried a few things.i started my engine and attempted to bleed the system of potential air.. My heater core is empty, no coolant what so ever. Coolant resevoir is staying at same level but no coolant is feeding back through the bleeder line to the top of the coolant resevoir. Coolant is moving through hard pipe as I can see it over flow if I pull off the bleeder screw. Top radiator line is hot, bottom is cold. I tried bleeding the air out by the top of the heater core but seems no coolant is able to make it up that high. Seems like the water pump is dead but would like some insight before I get my hands dirty with a TB job.

Thanks!

[fyremanpat]

How old is the water pump? It could be possible that the fins on the pump broke off. Was this all of a sudden or gradual?

[andrew96]

I bought the car used a year ago. I'm at 118k and the previously owner said TB was done around 70k. It was mostly sudden. Started to over heat so I cranked heat to help cool down the engine and no heat came out. Read it could be a air bubble lodged in the system but when I tried to bleed the air, I couldn't get any flow

[fyremanpat]

there were non-oem water pumps that were notorious for that particular failure...cant remember the brand though. its an easy enough fix on these cars.

[andrew96]

Are the ones from ECS Tuning quality? https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B6_A4...Kit/ES2569782/
I've done most of the work myself on my car. New starter, control arms, tie rods, brakes, thermostat and j plug among a few other things. Is a TB job something that could be out of my realm? I've been doing plenty of research and seems very possible but timing seems very intimidating

[crazyquik22023]

Take off the top hose that connects to the expansion tank and hold it over a bottle or something to catch the coolant. While the engine is at idle there should be a small trickle of coolant coming out of the hose. Have someone raise the engine rpms to 2500 or so. There should be a steady stream of coolant coming out of the hose now. If there is not then you more than likely have a bad water pump.

[old guy]

Are the ones from ECS Tuning quality? https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B6_A4...Kit/ES2569782/
I've done most of the work myself on my car. New starter, control arms, tie rods, brakes, thermostat and j plug among a few other things. Is a TB job something that could be out of my realm? I've been doing plenty of research and seems very possible but timing seems very intimidating

With what you have already done a TB service will be a cakewalk. Getting the timing belt aligned is really quite simple with a few marks from a paint pen: Clicky click®

[andrew96]

Take off the top hose that connects to the expansion tank and hold it over a bottle or something to catch the coolant. While the engine is at idle there should be a small trickle of coolant coming out of the hose. Have someone raise the engine rpms to 2500 or so. There should be a steady stream of coolant coming out of the hose now. If there is not then you more than likely have a bad water pump.

I tried this, nothing is coming through and line is bone dry. Same with top coolant line to the heater core. Definitely seems like a bad water pump.

[andrew96]

Seems like I'll be doing the TB in a few weeks. How long is the job? Obviously there are kits to avoid because of crappy parts, do any come to mind?

[MurkyRivers_A4]

Seems like I'll be doing the TB in a few weeks. How long is the job? Obviously there are kits to avoid because of crappy parts, do any come to mind?

I just did mine on Friday. Took me about 2 hours to accomplish start to finish.

I ordered the ECS ultimate kit, without coolant since I can pick it up locally. The removed componenets, which were supposedly replaced 4k miles ago, definitely were older than 4k miles and the water pump was crusted up and on its way out, the tensioner pulley was completely busted and the tensioner was at about 16mm of gap. Timing marks were off when I started.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

Whateven kit or water pump you get, make sure its not a GEBA water pump. They have prematurely failed for many people along with myself. After ~20k miles, the bearing gave out and the pump froze shredding my timing belt and bending all 20 valves.

looking back at your ECS link, it looks like theirs comes with a GEBA pump. I have also heard some people have issues with the gates TB but i havent ever tried it so dont quote me on that.

[andrew96]

Whateven kit or water pump you get, make sure its not a GEBA water pump. They have prematurely failed for many people along with myself. After ~20k miles, the bearing gave out and the pump froze shredding my timing belt and bending all 20 valves.

looking back at your ECS link, it looks like theirs comes with a GEBA pump. I have also heard some people have issues with the gates TB but i havent ever tried it so dont quote me on that.

Thanks for the heads up! I was just about to buy that kit. It does in fact have the GEBA water pump. Don't want to bend any valves... Any recommendations?

[MurkyRivers_A4]

I bought that exact kit. Cant be any worse than the destroyed crap that was in my car. And I cant imagine the gates timing belt being worse than a continental.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

Thanks for the heads up! I was just about to buy that kit. It does in fact have the GEBA water pump. Don't want to bend any valves... Any recommendations?

i went with the GRAF one this time around, so far so good but only about 5k miles on it.
https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B6_A4...er_Pump/ES766/

I bought that exact kit. Cant be any worse than the destroyed crap that was in my car. And I cant imagine the gates timing belt being worse than a continental.

Just make sure you keep an eye out, symptoms of mine were a slow leak, then the next day it started to whine and about 15 miles after it started whining, the bearing gave out and the waterpump seized.

[andrew96]

i went with the GRAF one this time around, so far so good but only about 5k miles on it.
https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B6_A4...er_Pump/ES766/



Just make sure you keep an eye out, symptoms of mine were a slow leak, then the next day it started to whine and about 15 miles after it started whining, the bearing gave out and the waterpump seized.

I noticed the impeller on the GRAF is different from those on the GEBA and Genuine Audi, is there any significance to that?

[MurkyRivers_A4]

i went with the GRAF one this time around, so far so good but only about 5k miles on it.
https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B6_A4...er_Pump/ES766/



Just make sure you keep an eye out, symptoms of mine were a slow leak, then the next day it started to whine and about 15 miles after it started whining, the bearing gave out and the waterpump seized.

Ill definitely keep an eye out!

[FromS60toB61.8t]

Thanks for the heads up! I was just about to buy that kit. It does in fact have the GEBA water pump. Don't want to bend any valves... Any recommendations?

I noticed the impeller on the GRAF is different from those on the GEBA and Genuine Audi, is there any significance to that?

the OEM one is plastic so whatever one you do get just make sure the impeller is metal. The Hepu looks good too, dont remember if it was just on backorder at the time or i read something about those too.

[old guy]

I noticed the impeller on the GRAF is different from those on the GEBA and Genuine Audi, is there any significance to that?

I had two Geba pumps fail on me. One started leaking and the bearing went out on the other. both went bad within 50k miles. No more Geba's for me.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

just dug up a picture of my failed GEBA

[andrew96]

Gonna order parts tonight. So is there any thing wrong with the gates racing belt? It says it's Kevlar reinforced which makes it very tempting....

[MurkyRivers_A4]

Gonna order parts tonight. So is there any thing wrong with the gates racing belt? It says it's Kevlar reinforced which makes it very tempting....

Ive only ever heard good reviews on these from the DSM community. I have it installed now on my A4 and can give a review in 60k miles, or sooner if it fails lol.

[customa4]

the OEM one is plastic so whatever one you do get just make sure the impeller is metal. The Hepu looks good too, dont remember if it was just on backorder at the time or i read something about those too.

Is there really a problem with the plastic impeller on the OEM units? Mine lasted around 75k before it went out. Sounds like the life expectancy of a water pump, no? When I changed my timing belt more recently I went with the metal impellar but just curious if it's really that much of a problem to have the plastic unit.

Seems like I'll be doing the TB in a few weeks. How long is the job? Obviously there are kits to avoid because of crappy parts, do any come to mind?

OP, this should help you out. Click

[crazyquik22023]

Is there really a problem with the plastic impeller on the OEM units? Mine lasted around 75k before it went out. Sounds like the life expectancy of a water pump, no? When I changed my timing belt more recently I went with the metal impellar but just curious if it's really that much of a problem to have the plastic unit.

The plastic OEM water pumps are the best option. The impellers do start to break around 60-75k miles but that is when you should be changing the timing belt and water pump anyways. The metal ones people have had good and bad experiences with. On some I know the impeller is to heavy for the shaft and the impeller breaks loose from the shaft and in return will not spin. I know some of these have gone as early as 15k miles. I personally always use OEM water pumps, and tensioners and usually use a continental belt when I do a timing belt on a 1.8t

[diagnosticator]

I decided to use a genuine OEM Audi coolant pump from the Audi dealer instead of an aftermarket OE equivalent for my current timing belt replacement. Although the OE plastic pump impellers have a history of eventually cracking and slipping in the pump drive shaft, the reliability of the pump bearing and mechanical shaft seal is a lot better than the aftermarket pumps. Not all plastic impellers crack at high mileage and when they do, the pump needs to be replaced with a new timing belt and belt tensioner anyway.

BTW, when bleeding the cooling system, the engine must be OFF, not running.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

As diagnosticator said, the oem ones fail randomly just because it is plastic. Anytime you heat up plastic to high temps and cool it down again it gets weaker. Sure it's slow and may take 75k miles, there have been many cases where they have gone in 20-30k miles. I'd rather try to find a reliable metal impeller one and seeing as the Graf one has a fan blade design instead of the chunky metal design, maybe the weight saved will make the bearing last longer. Coolant temps have been getting to where they need to be and flow seems good so I don't think there are any issues in operation with the fan blade style design.