Bags or Coils?

[hbracer93]

So for the longest time all my cars were on aftermarket shocks and lowering springs, then I finally broke down and started running coils. Now air suspension have peeked my interest and having a nicer and more expensive car makes me want bags. Being able to control ride height on fly, no more scrapping or damaging the front bumper/lip, no more having to do 1 mile per hour over speed bumps or dips, taking things at crazy angles. The price of the bags is the hardest pill to swallow, I mean $4200 for bags...I could buy a set of coils and rims for the price of bags, but then I'm back living the "low life". So not having any experience with bags has anyone had any negative experiences?

[Blaine]

So for the longest time all my cars were on aftermarket shocks and lowering springs, then I finally broke down and started running coils. Now air suspension have peeked my interest and having a nicer and more expensive car makes me want bags. Being able to control ride height on fly, no more scrapping or damaging the front bumper/lip, no more having to do 1 mile per hour over speed bumps or dips, taking things at crazy angles. The price of the bags is the hardest pill to swallow, I mean $3800 for bags...I could buy a set of coils and rims for the price of bags, but then I'm back living the "low life". So not having any experience with bags has anyone had any negative experiences?

Depends on what you use the car for. Bags are more a cosmetic daily driver mod since they add extra weight with all the parts involved as opposed to Coil-overs which reduce weight. Bag systems have come a long way since when they first came out. Not 100% on how adjustable they are now compared to coil overs. Bag system would be great in my area in Germany since they don't have speed bumps.. they have speed MOUNTAINS and I couldn't use a coil over or spring drop in height since I'd bottom out on speed bumps and Bags would allow me to raise the vehicle height over speed bumps. Since I have the MAG suspension.... they are still sorting out the bugs with the engine light with them so BAGS and Coilovers will wait until someone has an absolute fix for the CEL.

[will13k7]

these cars have great clearance even with no wheel well gap, but yeah, you do need to angle driveways, but you can drive straight over speed bumps, but you do have to slow down to a crawl though.

[hbracer93]

Depends on what you use the car for. Bags are more a cosmetic daily driver mod since they add extra weight with all the parts involved as opposed to Coil-overs which reduce weight. Bag systems have come a long way since when they first came out. Not 100% on how adjustable they are now compared to coil overs. Bag system would be great in my area in Germany since they don't have speed bumps.. they have speed MOUNTAINS and I couldn't use a coil over or spring drop in height since I'd bottom out on speed bumps and Bags would allow me to raise the vehicle height over speed bumps. Since I have the MAG suspension.... they are still sorting out the bugs with the engine light with them so BAGS and Coilovers will wait until someone has an absolute fix for the CEL.

From the research I've been doing the actual bag assembly weighs 8lbs less than a coil setup and the compressor and tank are rather light them selves. Air Lift Performance has a youtube video, were they tested coils vs Bags on the track on 3 different cars, and in all the tests bags had better times and numbers than coils. seems like the only negative to bags is the price.

[diztek]

To each their own but I can't wait till the whole bag phenomenon is over. Just doesn't belong on a performance oriented car. I've never seen anyone who is truly serious about racing bag their car.

[A20V200]

To each their own but I can't wait till the whole bag phenomenon is over. Just doesn't belong on a performance oriented car. I've never seen anyone who is truly serious about racing bag their car.

It really boils down to what YOU are going to do with your car. Just cruise it and air it out in parking lots? Or, are you going to use it at some track events?

The above is true for bags at the track...there was a track event here recently and an S3 was on airlift. He had to air it all the way up because of the hard corners and the car was sloppy on the track. If he was on C/O he could've cleaned up....Maybe he'll chime in, but pulling double duty with bags is not possible with great results.

[hbaudi]

If you take tracking out of the equation are bags a better street setup cost aside?


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[diztek]

Taking track out of the equation, I would say yes. It would be nice to have your car super low during the summer and then raise it a little when it snows. Just having the option to change ride height to accommodate your road conditions would be cool as well.

[hbracer93]

To each their own but I can't wait till the whole bag phenomenon is over. Just doesn't belong on a performance oriented car. I've never seen anyone who is truly serious about racing bag their car.

I don't think this is a thing that is just going to go away, as technology with air suspension grows they will soon phase out the coil. If they are already performing at a level equal to or greater than coils, it will only be a matter of time to when no one runs coils anymore.

[hbracer93]

Now granted this is from the manufacture of the product, so it might be bias. But impressive non-the-less

[hbracer93]

It really boils down to what YOU are going to do with your car. Just cruise it and air it out in parking lots? Or, are you going to use it at some track events?

The above is true for bags at the track...there was a track event here recently and an S3 was on airlift. He had to air it all the way up because of the hard corners and the car was sloppy on the track. If he was on C/O he could've cleaned up....Maybe he'll chime in, but pulling double duty with bags is not possible with great results.

I am in it for something versatile that I can ride comfortable and still run at the track. Something that I can adjust as needed as to not damage the car on dips and stuff.

[diztek]

No one will ever use air in serious competitive racing.

[jshwon]

To each their own but I can't wait till the whole bag phenomenon is over. Just doesn't belong on a performance oriented car. I've never seen anyone who is truly serious about racing bag their car.

I think that depends on how people use their performance oriented cars. Its probably a minority that actually ever take their car to a track. That goes for any platform. Air can really complement your average canyon twisties, and fun driving roads. Adding the luxury of changing your ride height on demand is such a plus. Especially when your performance car is your daily driver and you have crappy roads. This is from someone who has owned both coils and bags.

No gritting your teeth with every road imperfection on bags as you might with some coil setups.

[hbracer93]

No one will ever use air in serious competitive racing.

No one will ever use their S3 in serious competitive racing.

[hbracer93]

But think about that...serious competitive racing means your car is trailered to the track and then trailered home, it will never see an uneven surface(unless you go off the track) and in most cases not even street legal. Competitive racing doesn't require the ability to adjust ride height as a daily driven weekend auto-X star.

[hbracer93]

I think that depends on how people use their performance oriented cars. Its probably a minority that actually ever take their car to a track. That goes for any platform. Air can really complement your average canyon twisties, and fun driving roads. Adding the luxury of changing your ride height on demand is such a plus. Especially when your performance car is your daily driver and you have crappy roads. This is from someone who has owned both coils and bags.

No gritting your teeth with every road imperfection on bags as you might with some coil setups.

This is the worst, or having to find an alternate route out of a parking lot.

[DarkSideGTI]

My R32 is bagged and I love the ride. But at the same time, I have been in some peoples bagged cars that ride like shit. Quality parts make a huge difference.

[hbracer93]

My R32 is bagged and I love the ride. But at the same time, I have been in some peoples bagged cars that ride like shit. Quality parts make a huge difference.

What setup do you run?

[DarkSideGTI]

Bagyard bags with Accuair management.

[diztek]

No one will ever use their S3 in serious competitive racing.

This guy looks pretty serious.

[hbracer93]

http://www.airsociety.net/2011/12/mi...ng-air-airrex/

Looks like a race car to me.

[phillyquattro]

This guy looks pretty serious.

Sick looking car there. Got more details on it?

http://www.airsociety.net/2011/12/mi...ng-air-airrex/

Looks like a race car to me.

I think the statement of "No one will ever use air in serious competitive racing" is a bit extreme and should be amended to say "Very few will ever use air in serious competitive racing". And that is pretty much inarguable. Sure you found a guy using air on his race car, but did you read the article?

I asked Dizzy why he decided to bag his track car instead of running a more traditional coilover or spring/shock combo and what he had to say made me laugh. Besides the fact that it was easy to set the ride height of the car and the fact that he works at AirREX, Dizzy said that the most important factor was that too many racing teams have lazy workers who don’t like removing the front bumper to get the cars into trailers for transport.

So he works for the company and has a lazy crew. Not exactly high marks of praise right there. He's got solid results, but everyone knows that the most important piece of equipment in a race car is the driver. He could have those same results on a traditional suspension set up. Maybe even better as his car will weigh a bit less and likely handle a bit better on top of it.

[hbracer93]

Sick looking car there. Got more details on it?



I think the statement of "No one will ever use air in serious competitive racing" is a bit extreme and should be amended to say "Very few will ever use air in serious competitive racing". And that is pretty much inarguable. Sure you found a guy using air on his race car, but did you read the article?



So he works for the company and has a lazy crew. Not exactly high marks of praise right there. He's got solid results, but everyone knows that the most important piece of equipment in a race car is the driver. He could have those same results on a traditional suspension set up. Maybe even better as his car will weigh a bit less and likely handle a bit better on top of it.

Oh I know, I was being an ass, haha. I did read the article, he still has a good amount of podium finishes on bags.

[diztek]

@phillyquattro, ya, there are quite a few articles on this car. VWVortex did one. here is a link for more info: http://www.race-the-ring.com/news/ro...tcc-contender/

As for the mini on bags, i dont think you can compare a shot of a mini leading a 25 year old honda civic against an s3 leading the British Touring Cup. lol

[hbracer93]

On a side note, does anyone have good picture of the spare tire area on the S3. My car is in CA and I won't be with it till July and I don't trust my wife to get me pictures or measurements. I'm trying to plan out my trunk lay-out

[Stam4765]

Why/how did this discussion turn into a conversation about bags on race cars? OP never said he was going to competitively race his car......

@ OP, my car is a hybrid of performance/show and I've been very happy with my bags. Like DarksideGTI said, the system and install shop you choose will make a huge difference.

Make sure your shop knows what they are doing and can help you pick out the proper components for your specific needs (tank size, compressor setup, management interface, line size, etc)

That being said, my last S4 was on coils and they performed great, i just prefer the adjustibility for a daily driver.

[jshwon]

Why/how did this discussion turn into a conversation about bags on race cars? OP never said he was going to competitively race his car......

@ OP, my car is a hybrid of performance/show and I've been very happy with my bags. Like DarksideGTI said, the system and install shop you choose will make a huge difference.

Make sure your shop knows what they are doing and can help you pick out the proper components for your specific needs (tank size, compressor setup, management interface, line size, etc)

That being said, my last S4 was on coils and they performed great, i just prefer the adjustibility for a daily driver.

Because how dare you put bags on your "performance oriented car". This subject always seems to generate a good amount of vitriol towards people who do this. Meanwhile the vast majority of people who buy S3's or even higher performing cars never see a track or auto-cross. So saying that coils have that much more performance over bags for these people is more bias against the "bag phenomenon". Which a phenomenon it's not. People have been bagging cars for decades. Including VAG cars.

The OP laid out what he was looking for ("Being able to control ride height on fly, no more scrapping or damaging the front bumper/lip, no more having to do 1 mile per hour over speed bumps or dips, taking things at crazy angles."). He never mentioned tracking the car..although he might want to.

[DarkSideGTI]

the engine bay of my bagged car.


DSC_1739 by Nick Larson, on Flickr

It had no problem chasing an M4 up a canyon road.

[hbracer93]

Why/how did this discussion turn into a conversation about bags on race cars? OP never said he was going to competitively race his car......

@ OP, my car is a hybrid of performance/show and I've been very happy with my bags. Like DarksideGTI said, the system and install shop you choose will make a huge difference.

Make sure your shop knows what they are doing and can help you pick out the proper components for your specific needs (tank size, compressor setup, management interface, line size, etc)

That being said, my last S4 was on coils and they performed great, i just prefer the adjustibility for a daily driver.

Thanks for the input. How do you like your air setup? I plan on running the Air Lift Performance 3P management with the Performance front and rear kits. I will most likely run a 2.5 Gallon tank with the 400C compressor. I will at a later time upgrade to the 3H system and install the height sensors, just not really looking to throw $4900 at the suspension in one shot. As far as the install I plan on doing the whole thing myself.

[hbracer93]

Because how dare you put bags on your "performance oriented car". This subject always seems to generate a good amount of vitriol towards people who do this. Meanwhile the vast majority of people who buy S3's or even higher performing cars never see a track or auto-cross. So saying that coils have that much more performance over bags for these people is more bias against the "bag phenomenon". Which a phenomenon it's not. People have been bagging cars for decades. Including VAG cars.

The OP laid out what he was looking for ("Being able to control ride height on fly, no more scrapping or damaging the front bumper/lip, no more having to do 1 mile per hour over speed bumps or dips, taking things at crazy angles."). He never mentioned tracking the car..although he might want to.

I definitely plan on auto-xing and will probably check out the road courses that SoCal has to offer.

[hbracer93]

the hard pill for me to swallow is the damn price tag for a full setup I'm looking at $4140. I could buy Coils and a bunch of power adders for that price. I guess I just really need to weigh the factors of why I want bags vs. the worth of cost

[jshwon]

the hard pill for me to swallow is the damn price tag for a full setup I'm looking at $4140. I could buy Coils and a bunch of power adders for that price. I guess I just really need to weigh the factors of why I want bags vs. the worth of cost

Yes it's and expensive option which is why it makes no sense for some people. But like you said you just have to determine if it's worth it for you based on how you plan to use the car. I personally had air ride on my B8 A4 avant and loved it. Accuair e-level with Airlift performance bags. I spent that much on the suspension because I knew that I couldn't extract that much power from that car and the flexibility was great. There was a time when we got a ton of rain and flooding and I was able to go full 4x4 mode and get through streets other cars could not.

For the S3 I decided to put that money more towards the engine etc because the power is there to be had and I think you get more ROI from investing in it. Maybe down the line I'll put it on air but for now I just want to make it go fast, and sure up the stock suspension (springs [mag ride], rear sway etc). That being said if you really want air but don't want to spend that kind of cash you can buy used. I know there are a couple of kits for sale floating around.

[hbracer93]

Yes it's and expensive option which is why it makes no sense for some people. But like you said you just have to determine if it's worth it for you based on how you plan to use the car. I personally had air ride on my B8 A4 avant and loved it. Accuair e-level with Airlift performance bags. I spent that much on the suspension because I knew that I couldn't extract that much power from that car and the flexibility was great. There was a time when we got a ton of rain and flooding and I was able to go full 4x4 mode and get through streets other cars could not.

For the S3 I decided to put that money more towards the engine etc because the power is there to be had and I think you get more ROI from investing in it. Maybe down the line I'll put it on air but for now I just want to make it go fast, and sure up the stock suspension (springs [mag ride], rear sway etc). That being said if you really want air but don't want to spend that kind of cash you can buy used. I know there are a couple of kits for sale floating around.

Yeah I hear ya, I am eyeing the ArmyTrix full exhaust system($2800), that plus some springs and some other bolt-ons vs the air ride. I know that I will prolly never have that much money in one shot to drop on parts, this would make the air ride my first mod to the car, everything else will be attainable. I don't have the Mag ride on my car and that is in-part why I want to do air first, otherwise I would do springs till the Mag ride gave out. I have been saying for awhile that my next car would be on air, but I have never owned air nor have I ever ridden in an air car, how is the ride quality in comparison to a coilover setup?

[hbracer93]

Oh and I would love to find a full system used, there was one for sale but it sold last month.

[diztek]

[Stam4765]

Thanks for the input. How do you like your air setup? I plan on running the Air Lift Performance 3P management with the Performance front and rear kits. I will most likely run a 2.5 Gallon tank with the 400C compressor. I will at a later time upgrade to the 3H system and install the height sensors, just not really looking to throw $4900 at the suspension in one shot. As far as the install I plan on doing the whole thing myself.

you arent going to want to change your management system once its installed. There is a lot of cost and time involved. Also, this system cost me around $1200 to install, which is something to keep in mind when pricing it out. Cheaping out on an install is not a good idea either, pinched lines and poorly placed electronic components can damage the system.

Also, i had mag ride and needed to put in a cancellation kit so i didnt get the suspension error. That kit is around $400. At least its probably super warm in guam so you wont have to winterize anything lol

[hbracer93]

you arent going to want to change your management system once its installed. There is a lot of cost and time involved. Also, this system cost me around $1200 to install, which is something to keep in mind when pricing it out. Cheaping out on an install is not a good idea either, pinched lines and poorly placed electronic components can damage the system.

Also, i had mag ride and needed to put in a cancellation kit so i didnt get the suspension error. That kit is around $400. At least its probably super warm in guam so you wont have to winterize anything lol

Cool, adding the height sensors to the 3P is just that, it's a $450 upgrade for the sensors and they will work with 3P system. I'm just gonna get my feet wet with the pressure based system first and then add the height sensors later.

Fortunately I don't have Mag ride, that's why this in my first mod choice. And my car is actually in San Diego, but it doesn't get too terribly cold there.

[hbracer93]

Well I ordered an Airlift Performance 3P Performance kit, this will be the first mod to the car

[johnnyR32]

I've had a few 400+ hp cars on air ride and never had an issue or felt that the suspension wasn't up to the task. Personally I will never run coils again.

[jshwon]

I've had a few 400+ hp cars on air ride and never had an issue or felt that the suspension wasn't up to the task. Personally I will never run coils again.

You are running the KW delete kit for the mag ride correct? Has that kept the errors away?