The State of Tuning

[ChrisF1]

Hi all. Picking up my car tomorrow and very much want to do a stage 1 tune. I tuned my last A3 2.0T via APR at 500 miles and was flawless until I sold it at 70K miles. That was a different time though before the dreaded TD1 flag. I've searched a bit but there seems to be some uncertainty about which tunes are least likely to trigger a flag. My quick research indicates:

- APR: not much in favor anymore due to lack of customer support and no flash at home option
- Eurodyne: very positive feedback here; at home flash option; stock restore with flash counter reset
- Unitronic: same as Eurodyne.
- Other options?

Also, I haven't seen much discussion about those with these tunes either on track (where they would be torture tested) or much in the way of datalogging to review AFR's, EGT's and general safety. Would love this type of feedback as I consider the best choice.

Can't wait!

[tateltot]

Hi all. Picking up my car tomorrow and very much want to do a stage 1 tune. I tuned my last A3 2.0T via APR at 500 miles and was flawless until I sold it at 70K miles. That was a different time though before the dreaded TD1 flag. I've searched a bit but there seems to be some uncertainty about which tunes are least likely to trigger a flag. My quick research indicates:

- APR: not much in favor anymore due to lack of customer support and no flash at home option

I'd say there are still plenty of satified APR customers. But yeah, the flashing options can be limiting. It does seem to be pretty solid with good performance.

- Eurodyne: very positive feedback here; at home flash option; stock restore with flash counter reset

This is what I went with. It's a flash at home option, reasonably priced and I really like the power curve (less peaky, smooth with a great top end). No charge to use/upgrade to other tune levels as your modding grows.

- Unitronic: same as Eurodyne.

Basically, though it seems like they get the best numbers. Not sure how it drives. Also, currently, they don't have a 2016+ ECU compatible flash. A bit more expensive. Have to pay for tune upgrades.

- Other options?

I think GIAC has a tune out there, as do some others. I'm less familiar there. You could also put the performance piggy backs in this category. Burger Motorsports JB1 and the Neuspeed Power Module. Both of those are inexpensive and completely removable, but I found the JB1 to be unpolished, spiky and not conducive to mountain road drives.

Also, I haven't seen much discussion about those with these tunes either on track (where they would be torture tested) or much in the way of datalogging to review AFR's, EGT's and general safety. Would love this type of feedback as I consider the best choice.

My EGTs on the 91 Stage 1.5 tune from EuroDyne seem very reasonable. In fact, my EGTs are consistent with stock (probably adds in more fuel, etc.) I don't get crazy spikes and it generally feels like factory + 60 HP when I want it. Haven't dived too much into AFRs and torture, though I do feel like I could probably benefit from an intercooler upgrade for long, hard driving.

[eriktufa]

REVO, APR, GIAC, ABT, MTM, Eurodyne, Unitronic, JB1

[roadrunner_oz]

Basically, though it seems like they get the best numbers. Not sure how it drives. Also, currently, they don't have a 2016+ ECU compatible flash. A bit more expensive. Have to pay for tune upgrades.

Pay for upgrades or updates? Don't know any tuning companies giving stages upgrade free, but certainly updates are free.

- - - Updated - - -

REVO, APR, GIAC, ABT, MTM, Eurodyne, Unitronic, JB1

Just consider you may want a matching DSG tune and not all offer that.

[Workflow]

[/QUOTE]Just consider you may want a matching DSG tune and not all offer that.[/QUOTE]

This is a big consideration too many overlook. Good suggestion for the OP.

[ChrisF1]

Thanks for the replies.

Follow up. So far all I have seen is horror stories about DSG programming. On my prior 2.0t the car drove as stock when tuned with no DSG tune. Given the adaptive nature of the tranny what's the thinking behind DSG tune?

[coolwater]

Pay for upgrades or updates? Don't know any tuning companies giving stages upgrade free, but certainly updates are free.

Went from Eurodyne Stage 1.5 to Stage 2. It's a free upgrade for existing Stage 1.5 owners. Just had to plug in and it overwrites block 5 of the ECU.
So it took literally 5 mins to do. Compared to first Stage 1.5 flash that took 20 minutes.

-cW

[Baggio]

Hi all. Picking up my car tomorrow and very much want to do a stage 1 tune. I tuned my last A3 2.0T via APR at 500 miles and was flawless until I sold it at 70K miles. That was a different time though before the dreaded TD1 flag. I've searched a bit but there seems to be some uncertainty about which tunes are least likely to trigger a flag. My quick research indicates:

- APR: not much in favor anymore due to lack of customer support and no flash at home option
- Eurodyne: very positive feedback here; at home flash option; stock restore with flash counter reset
- Unitronic: same as Eurodyne.
- Other options?

Also, I haven't seen much discussion about those with these tunes either on track (where they would be torture tested) or much in the way of datalogging to review AFR's, EGT's and general safety. Would love this type of feedback as I consider the best choice.

Can't wait!

From my understanding AOA will eventually find out that you were running a tune. They can figure out piggybacks as well. I don't think you are completely in clear just because you can flash at home. And if you damage something that doesn't allow you to start the car, they will catch if you flash it to stock because they will see there is no freeze frame data in the ECU. In other words, you are taken a risk no matter what you use to flash. You have to pay to play, so to speak. So, if you decide to flash and need to flash to stock just make sure you drive a couple of days before you bring it to the dealer. I am going to be getting the APR tune soon and if I have to flash to stock, my tuner does them free of charge.

[roadrunner_oz]

Went from Eurodyne Stage 1.5 to Stage 2. It's a free upgrade for existing Stage 1.5 owners. Just had to plug in and it overwrites block 5 of the ECU.
So it took literally 5 mins to do. Compared to first Stage 1.5 flash that took 20 minutes.

-cW

I stand corrected. Eurodyne is same $699 price for any stage. Makes sense kind of, although not the best marketing strategy ;)

[tateltot]

I stand corrected. Eurodyne is same $699 price for any stage. Makes sense kind of, although not the best marketing strategy ;)

Or, plot twist, the best marketing strategy. :)

[Kookie]

Went from Eurodyne Stage 1.5 to Stage 2. It's a free upgrade for existing Stage 1.5 owners. Just had to plug in and it overwrites block 5 of the ECU.
So it took literally 5 mins to do. Compared to first Stage 1.5 flash that took 20 minutes.

-cW

How does it compare? (1.5 to 2*)

Eurodyne: very positive feedback here; stock restore with flash counter reset

Anyone know if there's validity here? Obviously that's attractive.

[Workflow]

How does it compare? (1.5 to 2*)




Anyone know if there's validity here? Obviously that's attractive.

Flash counter resets, yes. However, there's still debate as to whether it's a "true" stock file versus a "version" of stock. Also, you'd want some drive time to let the ECU build driving data if headed to the dealer, otherwise a fresh set of logs is suspect. A buddies Mk7 GTI just popped a turbo and tuned by Eurodyne, we'll see how it plays out with the dealer.

[Kookie]

Flash counter resets, yes. However, there's still debate as to whether it's a "true" stock file versus a "version" of stock. Also, you'd want some drive time to let the ECU build driving data if headed to the dealer, otherwise a fresh set of logs is suspect. A buddies Mk7 GTI just popped a turbo and tuned by Eurodyne, we'll see how it plays out with the dealer.

Very interested to hear how that pans out. Shoot me a text

[Food4Audis]

where's that marc guy...waiting for his opinion on APR

[Bradley77]

Hi all. Picking up my car tomorrow and very much want to do a stage 1 tune. I tuned my last A3 2.0T via APR at 500 miles and was flawless until I sold it at 70K miles. That was a different time though before the dreaded TD1 flag. I've searched a bit but there seems to be some uncertainty about which tunes are least likely to trigger a flag. My quick research indicates:

- APR: not much in favor anymore due to lack of customer support and no flash at home option
- Eurodyne: very positive feedback here; at home flash option; stock restore with flash counter reset
- Unitronic: same as Eurodyne.
- Other options?

Also, I haven't seen much discussion about those with these tunes either on track (where they would be torture tested) or much in the way of datalogging to review AFR's, EGT's and general safety. Would love this type of feedback as I consider the best choice.

Can't wait!

If you want to keep your warranty I suggest you stay away from any tune, AOA will definitely find out in the event you need warranty work, even flashed back to stock! If you do an apr tune I suggest the lower output stage 1. The high output was crazy powerful but it blew my turbo in about 200 miles and now I have no power train warranty.

[tateltot]

Huh. Tales of blown turbos are intimidating of course, but it seems so strange. They're pretty resilient, generally, no? Or is this an issue with GTI/A3s?

[Bradley77]

Huh. Tales of blown turbos are intimidating of course, but it seems so strange. They're pretty resilient, generally, no? Or is this an issue with GTI/A3s?

Not too resilient, the is20 turbo has been updated by audi at least four times because of problems under stock power, additional boost won't help. The apr agreement that I signed even mentions a known problem with the turbo failing. I didn't read it until after I toasted my turbo. Some people don't have problems but it's definitely a gamble, be prepared to fork over some serious dough if things go wrong. Like I said before, I would go low torque stage 1 if I had a do over or forked over the extra cash for the s3.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[markn1689]

another option is the JB1 or Neuspeed tuning box. the box is physically installed and is able to tune the car by fooling the ecu signals.
it is 100% removable before you visit the dealer.

your other option is to remain stock- which comes with peace of mind... the s3 is already damn fast... at least for my needs.

[ChrisF1]

To follow up on a few things:

- To be clear, I am a firm believer in personal accountability. If something I did causes a failure, I expect to pay for it myself. If something unrelated breaks, I expect my warranty to cover it. Given the use of the TD1 flag and ensuing full denial of drivetrain warranty despite Moss Magnussen, it's kind of hard to even have a dialogue with a dealer about who should pony up. That said, I wanted to research the current state of tunes, the level of risk for getting flagged and then ultimately make a decision. As mentioned, I've owned many tuned cars before including a prior A3 and Golf R. Only failure of the two was a bad diverter valve which I paid for. No engine, no transmission issues in a cumulative 100,000 miles of tuned driving.

- Way back in the dark ages of tuning (for me 2002) I used a piggyback or two. I am not a fan but have been looking at the JB as an option. Again, would prefer to see datalogging showing how they are affecting the engine before stepping in.

- As far as the S3 being fast, that's all relative. It's one of the slower cars I've owned in many years. That is not to say it isn't awesome. Just spent all day driving it 500 miles home. Very happy with it.

[PRGRMMR]

I had the JB1 for a total of like 5 days before I got my Eurodyne tool and tune. I only got the JB1 to hold me over until a home tune came out for the 2016. The closest tuners are hundreds of miles away from me and I wasn't willing to have my car so far away from any possible software adjustments. The JB1 was a pretty solid "tune" if you want to call it that. Its low end instant hit of power at around 3k RPM is pretty impressive for a piggy back. In comparison to the Eurodyne Stage 1.5 and 2 tunes, the ED tunes are much much smoother. Feels more natural, if that makes sense. Nice power throughout the powerband. Only problem I've had with Eurodyne is the Stage 2 has too much torque when launching for the DSG without a DSG tune. I flashed to 1.5 and the slippage when launching went away.

With all that said, DSG tunes for 2016 S3's should be ready any day now (I hope).

As for the whole TD1, warrant voiding fear that a lot of people have. The only thing that worries me is something major happening unrelated to the tune and me being liable for it. So for that, I have Geico Mechanical Breakdown Insurance. Here is a story of a guy who blew his engine in his A3, had a mod-unfriendly dealer who didn't want to help, a warranty denied, and Geico picking up the bill: https://www.reddit.com/r/Audi/commen...ce_xpost_cars/

I'm curious what other cars you've owned if an S3 is one of the slower ones. I had a stage 2 pro-tuned STI before my S3 and it was quick, but just a JB1 on my S3 and it felt much quicker than my STI. I think the smother quick shifts of the DSG have a lot to do with it too.

[tateltot]

He has/had a Porsche GT4. ;)

I completely agree about the smooth, factory-ish feel of the Eurodyne.

The JB1 didn't run too hot, but I did have the engine pull timing a few times because the boost spiked to close to 30psi for a brief second.

[Workflow]

Very interested to hear how that pans out. Shoot me a text

As am I will do.

[mitch501]

Probably been answered before, but is there a time frame that has been established to signify if we have a problematic turbo? I just hit 19k on my A3 and I want to go stage 2 and I know most of the guys with turbo problems were noticing issues <2000 miles.