Audizine - An Automotive Enthusiast Community

Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Aug 23 2012
    AZ Member #
    99203
    Location
    Washington

    Teardown and replacement notes: S5 MT6 hydraulic clutch supply hose.

    Guest-only advertisement. Register or Log In now!
    Stupid hose! I highly recommend NOT having this part failure, heh. This repair procedure was pretty involved given the simplicity of the failure, so I thought I’d post a brief DIY. I suspect that this failure is, and will be, uncommon, but with cars creeping up in mileage, who knows. In any case, there are some things I learned in the process that can be helpful for anyone working on the ECM, brake master and vacuum booster, the clutch master and hose itself, and even for gaining more space when working on the back side of the engine.

    What happened?: My clutch pedal hit the floor during a shift and stuck in the depressed position. No return force on the clutch pedal, and I lost all clutch actuation. 79K miles on the car; 8.5 years in service.

    What caused it?: Blown supply hose from the clutch master cylinder to slave cylinder. The rupture occurred under the car in the transmission tunnel, so I could see quite clearly how the hose had separated at the crimped union between a rubber section and the steel hard line.

    What’s the repair?: Replace entire hose from the clutch master cylinder to the clutch slave cylinder (VAG part number 8K1721465G).

    Procedure/steps: Replace hose starting in the engine cowl/plenum and continuing underneath the car on the transmission. Because of the routing and construction of the hard line section of the hose, a lot of stuff needs to come off in order to complete the repair. Here are the steps:

    - Disconnect battery!
    - Remove lower rear underbody tray. This is the extent of what you need to disassemble underneath the car (except for the hose itself)
    - Remove all plenum covers between the engine/plenum bulkhead and firewall
    - Remove the main weather stripping on bulkhead
    - Remove washer fluid reservoir filler (one 13mm nut)
    - Remove positive electrical terminal/junction from strut tower brace (10mm nut with a plastic acorn cap on it)
    - Remove strut tower brace (yes, there’s one in there); four 13mm nuts on the strut towers and three 10mm bolts that secure the bulkhead to the brace itself.
    - Disassemble and remove light grey E-box. The cover is held on by three Torx screws, then you remove the ECM by pushing the black plastic tabs back on both sides and pulling out. Once you have the ECM out of the way (the wiring harness is stiff, so it takes some force), remove the fuse/relay carrier from E-box. You’ll first remove two electrical connectors (red and white) that route into the firewall, as well as a red ground strap on the carrier itself. With those connectors removed, the fuse/relay carrier is removed by pushing back the retaining tabs on the gray housing itself. Peel back the ECM and relay carrier and set them on the engine (with harnesses still attached). You’ll also have to remove a second red ground strap on the body of the car itself.
    - Remove wiper arms and wiper motor assembly (two 13mm nuts on wiper arms, and three 10mm bolts on wiper motor assembly)
    - Remove E-box itself. Four Torx screws are easily accessed once the guts of the E-box are removed. The remaining wiring harness won’t allow you to fully remove the box, but you can maneuver it out of the way for the next steps.
    - Remove steel shield on brake fluid reservoir. One Torx bolt.
    - Remove brake fluid reservoir on master cylinder. Drain the reservoir as best you can, then push the retaining pin out of the hole to release the reservoir. Remove clutch master cylinder supply hose at this time as well. The reservoir pulls up and out of rubber grommets in the master cylinder.
    - Remove both brake lines from master cylinder to ABS/ESP module and set aside. PLUG HOLES in the master cylinder and ABS/ESP module to minimize contamination.
    - With the above parts removed, you can maneuver the bulkhead out of the way to give you a bit more space to work. The bulkhead can’t be removed without disconnecting the heater core hoses and AC lines at the firewall, and you’ll definitely want to NOT remove those if you don’t have to do so.
    - Remove vacuum line from brake booster. It is just a rubber grommet that presses into the booster housing.
    - Remove the brake booster by first unbolting the two long inner 12-point head bolts. Then, you’ll disconnect the brake pedal from the master cylinder rod/ball. This is a HUGE pain without the special tool (which I didn’t bother to get), so I’ve tried to annotate a picture of the mechanism so you can see how it works and how you might be able to get it apart. Essentially, there’s a rod from the brake master to the brake pedal, and it secures to the pedal with a steel ball that snaps into a white retainer clip. The wings of the white clip must be spread apart in order to remove the ball, which is extremely tricky with the limited space and zero ability to sight the clip. In the end, I removed the clip itself from the brake pedal using flathead screwdrivers and shims, and then removed the clip from the rod once I had more space to work. Once the booster is fully disconnected, it’ll pull right out of the plenum.
    - Remove and reinstall clutch hose. There are two quick disconnect fittings on the hose that make it a breeze to attach at the master, and under the car at the slave cylinder.
    - Reassemble the whole lot, in reverse.
    - Refill brake fluid reservoir and bleed brakes. Remember, on these cars, the bleeding sequence is shortest-to-longest lines, so start with the driver front, then passenger front, driver rear, and passenger rear.
    - Flush and bleed clutch system. To do this, open up the bleed screw on top of the clutch slave cylinder (underneath, on the transmission) and cycle through the pedal sweep, by hand, until the system is full of fluid and bubbles are gone. Then, just as you would with bleeding brakes, close the bleed screw and pump the pedal a few times, hold, then open the bleed screw. The whole process takes a while.


    Overview of clutch hydraulic system


    View of the part failure from under the car


    Replacement part:


    Removing connectors when disassembling E-box


    Mid-disassembly


    E-box with all the guts removed:


    Removing brake booster


    Disconnecting brake booster from brake pedal


    New hose installed

  2. #2
    Senior Member Two Rings jwr9152's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 08 2015
    AZ Member #
    325788
    Location
    Pensacola, Florida

    Nice write up. I just went ahead and removed the clutch delay valve and replaced it with a stainless steel line.
    2011 S5 6 spd 4.2 V8 with APR stage 3 supercharger, APR tune, B&B exhaust, Bilstein PSS10 B16, 034 strut mounts, SPC adjustable control arms, USS sway bars and end links, JHM lightweight flywheel and clutch, Meisterwerk short shifter, 034 transmission mount, Stoptech BBK, carbotech xp12, alu kreuz, 034 intake, apikol differential mount, AWE S-flo filter, cr-15 strut brace, Advanti Hybris 19X9.5, Michelin Sport Cup 2 275/35/19. USP RS5 grill. 034 Motor Mounts

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings BoostEasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 07 2013
    AZ Member #
    120502
    My Garage
    2014 S5, S-tronic
    Location
    NE

    Quote Originally Posted by jwr9152 View Post
    Nice write up. I just went ahead and removed the clutch delay valve and replaced it with a stainless steel line.
    I hadn't seen anywhere prior that this platform had a clutch delay valve but just about every new car has them (IMO, to protect against driveline shock which will cause the shafts to loosen up and trans to whine).

    Looking at the OPs nice DIY, that round thing on the line looks suspiciously like a delay valve.

    What did you do, just pull out the round part by splicing in a short section of line or did you just have a custom hard line made up end-to-end for whole 2' length?

    I've never driven a B8 with 6MT but I've driven other cars with CDV and they suck. I don't know how anyone can stand them.
    2014 S5 S-tronic. Phantom Black, 19" AG M590s, Akebono Pads, OEM RS5 Grill, Alu-Kreuz, Black Alcantara, MMI, Quattro Sport Diff, B&O sound, side assist.
    2011 335xi (gone)
    2008 335xi (gone)

  4. #4
    Senior Member Two Rings jwr9152's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 08 2015
    AZ Member #
    325788
    Location
    Pensacola, Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by BoostEasy View Post
    I hadn't seen anywhere prior that this platform had a clutch delay valve but just about every new car has them (IMO, to protect against driveline shock which will cause the shafts to loosen up and trans to whine).

    Looking at the OPs nice DIY, that round thing on the line looks suspiciously like a delay valve.

    What did you do, just pull out the round part by splicing in a short section of line or did you just have a custom hard line made up end-to-end for whole 2' length?

    I've never driven a B8 with 6MT but I've driven other cars with CDV and they suck. I don't know how anyone can stand them.
    USP motorsports sells a stainless steel clutch line that replaces the CDV (round part and the hard lines associated with it).
    2011 S5 6 spd 4.2 V8 with APR stage 3 supercharger, APR tune, B&B exhaust, Bilstein PSS10 B16, 034 strut mounts, SPC adjustable control arms, USS sway bars and end links, JHM lightweight flywheel and clutch, Meisterwerk short shifter, 034 transmission mount, Stoptech BBK, carbotech xp12, alu kreuz, 034 intake, apikol differential mount, AWE S-flo filter, cr-15 strut brace, Advanti Hybris 19X9.5, Michelin Sport Cup 2 275/35/19. USP RS5 grill. 034 Motor Mounts

  5. #5
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Aug 23 2012
    AZ Member #
    99203
    Location
    Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by jwr9152 View Post
    Nice write up. I just went ahead and removed the clutch delay valve and replaced it with a stainless steel line.
    Oh, crap! I wish I'd known that the USP product existed! Not only would it have been an easier installation, it'd get rid of the frequency modulator (what the valve is technically called). I know you probably did this hose when you did the JHM clutch, but did you notice a real difference in performance/responsiveness?

  6. #6
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Aug 23 2012
    AZ Member #
    99203
    Location
    Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by BoostEasy View Post
    I hadn't seen anywhere prior that this platform had a clutch delay valve but just about every new car has them (IMO, to protect against driveline shock which will cause the shafts to loosen up and trans to whine).

    Looking at the OPs nice DIY, that round thing on the line looks suspiciously like a delay valve.
    Yeah, that is a "frequency modulator" on the OEM line. I was tempted to remove it; I should have done more research, damn it! Heck, the OEM part was $160, but the USP part is $70. Better all-around. Clutch action on this car has always been "meh."

    (and thanks!)

  7. #7
    Senior Member Two Rings jwr9152's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 08 2015
    AZ Member #
    325788
    Location
    Pensacola, Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Europa S5 View Post
    Oh, crap! I wish I'd known that the USP product existed! Not only would it have been an easier installation, it'd get rid of the frequency modulator (what the valve is technically called). I know you probably did this hose when you did the JHM clutch, but did you notice a real difference in performance/responsiveness?
    Yeah its hard to say, because I did several things at the same time. I just hate the idea of it and had to remove it.
    2011 S5 6 spd 4.2 V8 with APR stage 3 supercharger, APR tune, B&B exhaust, Bilstein PSS10 B16, 034 strut mounts, SPC adjustable control arms, USS sway bars and end links, JHM lightweight flywheel and clutch, Meisterwerk short shifter, 034 transmission mount, Stoptech BBK, carbotech xp12, alu kreuz, 034 intake, apikol differential mount, AWE S-flo filter, cr-15 strut brace, Advanti Hybris 19X9.5, Michelin Sport Cup 2 275/35/19. USP RS5 grill. 034 Motor Mounts

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Three Rings LordMagnet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 20 2015
    AZ Member #
    343823
    Location
    Connecticut

    I removed the clutch delay valve recently with the USP line, big improvement over stock. This is the thread that convinced me over on the S4 forum: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...all-6MT-owners
    2015 Audi S5 Coupe 6MT | Mythos Black Metallic : Black Nappa : Alu-Optic : B&O : Sport Diff. : 19" RS Rims : Carbon Fiber Inlay | APR Stage 2 : Roc-Euro Intake : AWE Touring Exhaust 102mm : EuroCode Short Shifter : USP Clutch Line : CR-15 Strut Tower Brace : 034 Mounts : H&R OE Sport Springs : 15mm/20mm Spacers : Tint 35% Sides / 20% Rear : Interior LED Kit : E-Codes : Vinyled Grille | 413 AWHP / 375 AWTQ

  9. #9
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Aug 23 2012
    AZ Member #
    99203
    Location
    Washington

    DAMN IT! I should have done more research! Now I'd really like to do the braided stainless line... or, at least, remove the modulation valve. Thanks, guys!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Two Rings jwr9152's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 08 2015
    AZ Member #
    325788
    Location
    Pensacola, Florida

    Sorry. I know the feeling
    2011 S5 6 spd 4.2 V8 with APR stage 3 supercharger, APR tune, B&B exhaust, Bilstein PSS10 B16, 034 strut mounts, SPC adjustable control arms, USS sway bars and end links, JHM lightweight flywheel and clutch, Meisterwerk short shifter, 034 transmission mount, Stoptech BBK, carbotech xp12, alu kreuz, 034 intake, apikol differential mount, AWE S-flo filter, cr-15 strut brace, Advanti Hybris 19X9.5, Michelin Sport Cup 2 275/35/19. USP RS5 grill. 034 Motor Mounts

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Three Rings
    Join Date
    Dec 26 2008
    AZ Member #
    36761
    Location
    STL

    I just did all this work last night to remove the master cylinder lol..
    Brings pain to my hands just looking at it, very nice write up though!!

    For what it's worth, Audi A5 does not have the frequency modulator it's a just straight line. Wonder if it would plug right in.
    Last edited by Slobo7x; 04-01-2016 at 09:02 AM.

  12. #12
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Aug 23 2012
    AZ Member #
    99203
    Location
    Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by Slobo7x View Post
    I just did all this work last night to remove the master cylinder lol..
    Brings pain to my hands just looking at it, very nice write up though!!

    For what it's worth, Audi A5 does not have the frequency modulator it's a just straight line. Wonder if it would plug right in.
    I hope my post was helpful!

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


    © 2001-2024 Audizine, Audizine.com, and Driverzines.com
    Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community and news website.
    Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyright/trademark Audi AG. Audizine is not endorsed by or affiliated with Audi AG.