V8 S5 Going in for a Flash Tune. Experience with APR and JHM?

[SLU_S5]

The time has come to tune my 4.2L V8 S5.

It seems that I have two options for the V8: APR or JHM. I've done some research and read as many reviews as I could find. I cant seem to find many APR reviews, but it sounds like the JHM tune makes a "night and day" difference - so that's what I'm leaning toward right now.

This isn't a discussion about dyno numbers or quarter mile times. I want to learn a little more about the user's experience before I decide to finally pull the trigger.

For those of you with either tune, I would greatly appreciate your comments on:


Reliability - Has anything gone wrong after your tune? I have a stock clutch and would ideally like to preserve it (I dont plan on launching my car often and I go to the drag strip maybe once per year).

Daily driving experience - My car is my daily driver - I want to be sure that it will still be practical for everyday situations (stop and go traffic, bad weather, snow, etc). I heard that the JHM tune makes the throttle response much more sensitive - especially in lower gears. Is this true? If so, is it easy to adjust to?

Tuner support/ customer service - Is the tuning company easy to contact and willing to help if you have any questions or concerns?

Thanks!

[Sweep]

From what I understand, there isn't much to be gained from trying to tune a NA engine. APR is only reporting 18HP/16 Ft-lbs over stock. I'm not sure if that's worth it to you, but that could be why there aren't a lot of user reviews since many chose not to bother.

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[430hps4]

For most, its not the gobbs of power they are looking for. Its a smoother throttle response and better top end. On my 4.2FSI (VW Touareg), I had a file loaded from Evolution Motorsports (local Porsche tuner). Was it like a Stage 1 file on a 1.8T, no. But did it help, yes. The Touareg wants to just keep pulling in the upper RPMs. Where as before, it just kinda cruised through the 4-7k range.

If I had my choices, I would choose JHM, just because the amount of time they spend getting the most out of their NA motors. They just haven't had anyone with a local 4.2FSI Touareg step up, so they could pull their ECU and start tweaking.

[SLU_S5]

Pulled the trigger on the APR tune. Explanation why, and more details in my "update, upgrade, & photo" thread.

[TTALMS]

Pulled the trigger on the APR tune. Explanation why, and more details in my "update, upgrade, & photo" thread.

I actually had the APR file first since my first Audi was a 1.8T and APR does wonders with turbo engines. But then I switched to JHM and haven't looked back. They seem to focus a lot of attention on getting every bit of power out of the 4.2. I personally felt the JHM tune made my car more responsive and smoother versus the APR. But as others have said, not much from a power gain for either one. My local shop supports both.

[street sleeper]

Some newbie questions...

Does JHM even make an ECU upgrade for the S5? Couldn't find one on their site.

And what about GIAC? AWE Tuning sells it and I've had great experience with their products.

APR $699.99 (+15hp)
GIAC $630.00 (+18hp)

If you drop $600-$700 for an ECU upgrade, how much is the install/tuning? Would the dealership be able to do this or would I need to go to tuning shop?

I think of ECU upgrades like overclocking computers back in the late 90s. Sure there are some benefits, but for the little extra power you get out of it...I'm wondering if the cost and potential for something to go horribly wrong is worth it?

[LordMagnet]

Some newbie questions...

Does JHM even make an ECU upgrade for the S5? Couldn't find one on their site.

And what about GIAC? AWE Tuning sells it and I've had great experience with their products.

APR $699.99 (+15hp)
GIAC $630.00 (+18hp)

If you drop $600-$700 for an ECU upgrade, how much is the install/tuning? Would the dealership be able to do this or would I need to go to tuning shop?

I think of ECU upgrades like overclocking computers back in the late 90s. Sure there are some benefits, but for the little extra power you get out of it...I'm wondering if the cost and potential for something to go horribly wrong is worth it?

Here's a link to JHM tune: https://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catal...2v-p-1561.html

Install cost usually ranges from Free to 1/2 hour of labor. I think there are some rare cases of dealership doing tunes (maybe that's an older thing) but you'd most likely need to go to an authorized tuner.

Tunes value on NA motors / your V8s are subjective, you're looking at mostly powerband optimizations rather than peak numbers. Heck most of these tunes advertise increased MPG even with their increased power. For forced induction it's more extreme. For example on the 3.0T motor APR advertises +111 peak HP and +134 max HP on their stage 1 93 octane tune. It was a no brainer for me.

[street sleeper]

Here's a link to JHM tune: https://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catal...2v-p-1561.html

Install cost usually ranges from Free to 1/2 hour of labor. I think there are some rare cases of dealership doing tunes (maybe that's an older thing) but you'd most likely need to go to an authorized tuner.

Tunes value on NA motors / your V8s are subjective, you're looking at mostly powerband optimizations rather than peak numbers. Heck most of these tunes advertise increased MPG even with their increased power. For forced induction it's more extreme. For example on the 3.0T motor APR advertises +111 peak HP and +134 max HP on their stage 1 93 octane tune. It was a no brainer for me.

This is probably a dumb question, but why exactly is that?

Why does the V6 get +111hp from an ECU upgrade, but the V8 only gets +20hp max if it's lucky?

[SLU_S5]

This is probably a dumb question, but why exactly is that?

Why does the V6 get +111hp from an ECU upgrade, but the V8 only gets +20hp max if it's lucky?

I have a very basic understanding of how this works so anyone else is free to chime in here:

On a very basic level, forced induction cars have a much greater tuning potential. Though the 3.0 in the B8.5s have a smaller displacement, the supercharger will force more air into the engine to be combined with fuel at a faster and more explosive rate which can yield more power. Decreasing the size of a supercharger pulley and adding an intake can make it easier for air to become available and forced to the engine at a faster rate. The tune can help improve fuel flow and can help to ensure an ideal fuel to air mixture which will also cause better power over stock.

With a naturally aspirated engine like the V8s, we're missing the ability of a supercharger to force more air into the engine. Fuel needs to be combined with air at a certain mixture to burn optimally. With less air density in the engine, less fuel could be added for an optimal explosion - potentially yelling less power than its forced induction counterpart.

[LordMagnet]

This is probably a dumb question, but why exactly is that?

Why does the V6 get +111hp from an ECU upgrade, but the V8 only gets +20hp max if it's lucky?

The magic of forced induction. Audi over-engineered the motor, and then marketing came in and told them how much power to limit it to. I believe they achieve this by bleeding the boost. Then the tuners fix the limiters.