SAI Delete - what are the real pros and cons?

[Matt Devo]

I just skimmed through that link and I don't see any detail of the actual tests performed to pass emissions. It really depends upon what is allowed and what isn't. If you have to pass all readiness switches you will fail. If you are allowed one you may get by. More and more states are going to a reset protocol where they clear all readiness switches to make sure they don't automatically reset. If one resets automatically you are hosed.

there's no issue passing inspection in Texas with SAI deleted; you're allowed one readiness fail/not ready.

[EuroxS4]

SAI can be removed and readiness to set.Just change the MSLUB map as if it had passed sai from the beginning.So write 0.00 to MSLUB mapll in all the fields and presto no more mil for sai.No more SAI.Readiness will show passed.

[Biged243]

I wonder if that's similar to what Audi did with the b7 2.0t. It has no SAI system, whereas a good portion of the transverse 2.0ts did have SAI.

So they obviously had to do something to make up for that.

I suspect the direct injection has a lot to do with it.

True, but as far as I know only the longitudinal 2.0t was the only non-SAI engine. Just seems odd they would keep it on some and not on others.

I'm sure DI and the newer, much more effective VVT system had something do with it for sure though.

I could be wrong, but I believe it has to do with the intake runner flaps and lean-burn ignition technology from direct port fuel injection.

Sent from my Nexus 6

Out of curiosity...

When the SAI pump and associated components are removed/deleted, does the car still run its 90 second cycle on cold starts?

I believe VAG removed the lean burn capabilities from their FSI motors.

Sorry for bringing this portion back from the dead but, there is a vacuum pump at the back of the head, does some of the same things. That is why people complain about the test pipes sounding like fart cans are installed, for the warm up. The flaps are more complicated than that. They help with smoothing out the mid range, but yes they help with start up and idling, they do more that that though. You can tune a lean start up with the b7 too so the capabilities are there but you have to tune for it. Yes the flaps, vacuum pump, direct injection, and the variable valve all play a factor in it. Yes all but the vacuum pump can be deleted and coded around, very difficult to do but can be done.
I don't really know if the vacuum pump can be deleted, I don't think so and I dont think anyone has tried. I could be wrong about that part though.

[Gin+]

SAI can be removed and readiness to set.Just change the MSLUB map as if it had passed sai from the beginning.So write 0.00 to MSLUB mapll in all the fields and presto no more mil for sai.No more SAI.Readiness will show passed.

Don't forget to correct your checksums:)

[K04-B6]

The SAI system can be effectively coded out via tuned ME7 software. It can be done for stock tunes, and any other stage of tuning. There are 2 methods of coding it out.


Sent from my Nexus 6

I apologize for bumping this comment back up but I'm curious to know how you do this? My SAI is removed with resistor in place and I never got a CEL, my N112 has always been hooked up even after removal of the system and I've never got a pass for readiness ever since. What is your method?

Thanks

[blitz2190]

I apologize for bumping this comment back up but I'm curious to know how you do this? My SAI is removed with resistor in place and I never got a CEL, my N112 has always been hooked up even after removal of the system and I've never got a pass for readiness ever since. What is your method?

Thanks

to pass readiness you need to code out the checks for incorrect/insufficient flow, there are a few spots in the me7 some for the mil light and others for the actual readiness tests. There are people that can do it for you for a fee, but if you want to learn more about it I would suggest making an account on nefariousmotorsports.com and reading about it.

[K04-B6]

to pass readiness you need to code out the checks for incorrect/insufficient flow, there are a few spots in the me7 some for the mil light and others for the actual readiness tests. There are people that can do it for you for a fee, but if you want to learn more about it I would suggest making an account on nefariousmotorsports.com and reading about it.

Thanks i'll make an account!, sorry again for the ignorance but what does me7 stand for?

[blitz2190]

Thanks i'll make an account!, sorry again for the ignorance but what does me7 stand for?

its the ecu firmware of said ecu, in the b6 the version would me7.5, just a heads up the me7 system has one of the steepest tuning learning curves of all the ecu's I've ever worked with.

[K04-B6]

its the ecu firmware of said ecu, in the b6 the version would me7.5, just a heads up the me7 system has one of the steepest tuning learning curves of all the ecu's I've ever worked with.

I'm not the best with software's so it'll take me some time to learn lol

[Human Garbage]

I'm not the best with software's so it'll take me some time to learn lol

Read the community Stg 1 thread for the B6 and you will start to understand. Then search for threads using keywords to fill in the gaps. Once you have a handle on the map names (which do make sense once you grasp the German words involved in the naming convention) and their uses (the Alfa Romero Funktionsrahmen that is translated to English is gold for that) it really isn't that hard. You aren't doing ASM patches, you are just changing map values.

Use TunerPro to start as WinOLS has its own learning curve and you won't be using most of the features to start with anyhow (bonus is that TP is free). Grab the utilities to correct checksums after your changes, Nefmoto flasher to flash your file, and a definition file for the s/w (.xdf file for TP to show the map locations - I use the 518AK 003 which works on the 03-05 ECUs and is well defined) and you are pretty much set. It is all learning by doing after that.

Use the method EuroxS4 mentioned in post 82 if you still have your N112 installed. It will basically change the SAI flow request to zero, so when the ECU sees zero flow it thinks all is right in the world. Readiness passed because the system is working as expected. I run it on my B6 and it shows as passed (although VCDS isn't always correct in that regard). No testing where I live now. I did use to have to pass testing when I had a Mk4 VW. That did pass using the above method FWIW.

Keep at it and you will get it. Just don't expect anyone on Nef to spoon feed you. They all started where you are at some point and know if you are reading and understanding or just want to be led. The whole point of that forum is to learn how to tune yourself, so they can be pretty brutal if you aren't pulling your weight in that regard. If you do your part, they are actually very helpful. When I had to code out my SAI on the Jetta years ago and couldn't find the MSLUB map in my file after honestly trying, someone gave me the location within minutes. Good guys that want to help you help yourself basically, even if that means tough love sometimes...

EDIT: I see you have a 2002 in your sig line. I think the file and definition you need is a 518F for your ECU - do not flash the Stg 1 file to your ECU or use the 518AK s/w. You have a different processor in yours so it will not work. All the basics are the same, so the rest of my post applies. You just need to use a file appropriate for your ECU. Good luck!

[K04-B6]

Read the community Stg 1 thread for the B6 and you will start to understand. Then search for threads using keywords to fill in the gaps. Once you have a handle on the map names (which do make sense once you grasp the German words involved in the naming convention) and their uses (the Alfa Romero Funktionsrahmen that is translated to English is gold for that) it really isn't that hard. You aren't doing ASM patches, you are just changing map values.

Use TunerPro to start as WinOLS has its own learning curve and you won't be using most of the features to start with anyhow (bonus is that TP is free). Grab the utilities to correct checksums after your changes, Nefmoto flasher to flash your file, and a definition file for the s/w (.xdf file for TP to show the map locations - I use the 518AK 003 which works on the 03-05 ECUs and is well defined) and you are pretty much set. It is all learning by doing after that.

Use the method EuroxS4 mentioned in post 82 if you still have your N112 installed. It will basically change the SAI flow request to zero, so when the ECU sees zero flow it thinks all is right in the world. Readiness passed because the system is working as expected. I run it on my B6 and it shows as passed (although VCDS isn't always correct in that regard). No testing where I live now. I did use to have to pass testing when I had a Mk4 VW. That did pass using the above method FWIW.

Keep at it and you will get it. Just don't expect anyone on Nef to spoon feed you. They all started where you are at some point and know if you are reading and understanding or just want to be led. The whole point of that forum is to learn how to tune yourself, so they can be pretty brutal if you aren't pulling your weight in that regard. If you do your part, they are actually very helpful. When I had to code out my SAI on the Jetta years ago and couldn't find the MSLUB map in my file after honestly trying, someone gave me the location within minutes. Good guys that want to help you help yourself basically, even if that means tough love sometimes...

EDIT: I see you have a 2002 in your sig line. I think the file and definition you need is a 518F for your ECU - do not flash the Stg 1 file to your ECU or use the 518AK s/w. You have a different processor in yours so it will not work. All the basics are the same, so the rest of my post applies. You just need to use a file appropriate for your ECU. Good luck!

Wow very informative! I've been searching the threads on nefmoto and there's alot of things I don't understand yet but like you said, a little of reading and filling in the gaps and I'll eventually understand it.

Thank you for all of this info! Much appreciated

[Gin+]

I wouldn't mess with your APR tuned ECU as the commercial tunes may have "protections" built in from what I've read. I'd get yourself a spare and mess with that if your inclined.

[Charles.waite]

Yea you can't alter APR tunes.

[APC123]

There in only one negative- you have to pay to get the cel off. A potential negative is not passing emissions, if your state has it.

The positives- removal of a system reminiscent of an appendix, a a vestigial organ so to speak.

Take it out, burn it, and piss on the melting pile of over-engineered pile of shit.

Haha yes!


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[EuroxS4]

Don't forget to correct your checksums:)

Well yes of course you need to correct checksums after any alterations to the ecu maps.So if you don't have a clue,hardware,or software.Your best bet is to pay someone to code it out for you.If you zero MSLUB the vehicle will still pass emissions tests.

[Human Garbage]

I wouldn't mess with your APR tuned ECU as the commercial tunes may have "protections" built in from what I've read. I'd get yourself a spare and mess with that if your inclined.

^ This! I did not catch the fact you are APR. You will mess your crap up just by reading the flash with Nef flasher (as it appends the file when reading with 'NEFMOTO' for some reason). I second Gin's suggestion to get a junkyard ECU. Got the one on my Jetta for $70 shipped and the Audi for $100 shipped both on FleaBay.

If you have to play with the ECU you have, then you can take a boot mode read of it with Galleto and save that as a backup. You can then flash knowing you can always restore it. Be sure to keep a copy of your eeprom flash from the APR, even though in my experience you don't have to change the e2p to run you own flash file. My ECU has a copy of my old APR e2p simply because I was too lazy to recode a vigin e2p with my VIN, SKC, and coding. Works fine.

I recommend a boot mode bench flashing rig even if you don't plan on doing the above. Worst comes to worst in your tuning adventures and brick an ECU, you will be able to use it to restore. All it can take is an un-checksummed file to get you in that position. That said, be smart and methodical and you will never be likely to have it happen. I've been fortunate in that regard. Not to say I haven't had my failures. When I was playing with knock based enrichment, I managed to somehow set a condition that caused the car to lock into 12.5:1 (even at idle) after about ten minutes of driving every time. Come to think of it, I've got to revisit that file...

My apologies again for not noticing you have an APR tune!

[K04-B6]

Oh shit! I didn't get to read this until tonight since I was away all weekend! Well I had scanned it real quick right before leaving. I really hope I didn't fuck up my tune! That would suck. If it does I'll have to go motoza I think.

[Jacob MaCabe]

your links are gone... I am curious.