Revo Charge Cooler vs Alpha Supercharger Cooling System

[Zaxon55]

Hey guys, I searched around for this but did not find much.

I am going to a Revo 1+ tune later this year and looking at cooling options.
Originally I was looking at the Alpha Supercharger Cooler, however, I am wondering if anyone has any experience with the recently released Revo Charge Cooler system.

Revo Link:
http://www.revotechnik.com/product-d...ler-30-v6-tfsi

Audizine Revo Intro Post:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...roductory-Sale!


From the looks of things the systems are pretty similar, with the exception of the Revo utilizing the existing pump instead of including a new one. Note that even though the Revo is stated for the S5, it should work just fine on the S4. At this point I am just wondering if the Alpha is worth the extra couple hundred dollars.

[MrFunk]

IMO an upgraded pump is vital to a larger capacity system...
With that said - I don't know of anyone running the REVO system yet. Unless it's much less expensive I don't see why you wouldn't go with Alpha which comes with an upgraded pump..?

[BernanksBeard]

I totally agree with MrFunk that the increase in flow, with the more powerful pump, increases efficiency dramatically. I have the AMS and to be honest, I'm not 100% happy with fit and finish for the B8.5. I did the install myself and spent an extra 8 hours custom fitting the system to near perfection.

The extra work was put into fitting the pipe leaving the storage tank (it's not an expansion tank because the system isn't divorced) over the secondary air injection pump and behind the fog light, reshaping and securing the SAI duct (leading to the air filter), and fitting the storage tank in a way that didn't mess with the bumper alignment. And I would rather have made holes in the crash bar than hang the heat exchanger on the AC condenser. But that system works really well.

If your installing it yourself, the AMS kit works well, but I wouldn't trust a shop to put in the time I did... AWEs kit looks really nice and o would probably try them myself if I could start over. Let me know if I can help u out in any other way.

I posted a write up on the over complicated bleeding process if your interested. Though I hear a cheap vacuum pump tool works even better.

[k9lovr]

I have the AMS kit and installed it myself and had no issues other than installing the rivet nuts which I did not buy the tool from them. In hindsight I would either buy it or barrow it from another forum member. The bleeding was not hard at all IMO...you will have to go back and check it a few times after its all done to get that little bit of extra air out simply buy opening the coolant cap and letting the air out as the system pushes it out

[derek.kritz]

I plan on doing the AWR without the pump. There are three kits that don't don't come with pumps. Revo, Forge, and PLM. And to my knowledge I'm yet to hear of anyone's stock pump failing cause of the increased volume. When I was talking with Forge (or maybe it was Revo, I forget) they said that a pump would be mainly for a faster flow, and not for wear and tear on the stock one. And please, DONT take this as in trying to start a pump war, I'm truly not. And, I'm by no means a master of fluid mechanical engineering. I'm just going on what the people that engineered them are telling me. And, If I could save $700, I'm in. The price of this upgrade is out of hand to begin with!!


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[Zaxon55]

Thanks all, that is some good info. The Revo kit without the pump seems to work in the way that Derek indicates and I was wondering if it would behave like the others and save me some money.
With that said, it sounds like there may be a benefit of increased coolant flow with the secondary pump, which sounds like it could help with the cooling.
I think either way it's going to be much better than stock with an added tune.

[acsgp]

Very interested in this too. I checked with Revo UK, however, and they confirmed that their cooling system is yet to be completed for the B8/8.5 S4.

[Lamprey]

I plan on doing the AWR without the pump. There are three kits that don't don't come with pumps. Revo, Forge, and PLM. And to my knowledge I'm yet to hear of anyone's stock pump failing cause of the increased volume. When I was talking with Forge (or maybe it was Revo, I forget) they said that a pump would be mainly for a faster flow, and not for wear and tear on the stock one. And please, DONT take this as in trying to start a pump war, I'm truly not. And, I'm by no means a master of fluid mechanical engineering. I'm just going on what the people that engineered them are telling me. And, If I could save $700, I'm in. The price of this upgrade is out of hand to begin with!!

Out of curiosity, has anyone done a temperature comparison of the same system with stock pump vs after market pump? If so, can someone link me to them?

I wonder how much of a difference, if any, the pump makes? I'd guess that divorcing the two cooling systems and having a larger heat exchanger would be the biggest gain. But, just speculation on my part.

[jran76]

Out of curiosity, has anyone done a temperature comparison of the same system with stock pump vs after market pump? If so, can someone link me to them?

I wonder how much of a difference, if any, the pump makes? I'd guess that divorcing the two cooling systems and having a larger heat exchanger would be the biggest gain. But, just speculation on my part.

In order, the biggest gains are from the larger radiator/heat exchanger, increased capacity, increased flow (pump), and then divorcing the system. More surface area-->more coolant-->more flow=better cooling

[derek.kritz]

In order, the biggest gains are from the larger radiator/heat exchanger, increased capacity, increased flow (pump), and then divorcing the system. More surface area-->more coolant-->more flow=better cooling

Right. The largest cooling is the heat exchanger and reservoir. The pump has the smallest benefit.

[Lamprey]

In order, the biggest gains are from the larger radiator/heat exchanger, increased capacity, increased flow (pump), and then divorcing the system. More surface area-->more coolant-->more flow=better cooling

Not disagreeing with you, but has it actually been shown that the pump has a greater gain than divorcing the system? That seems backwards to me, but maybe once things get warmed up divorcing the systems has a lower return.

[derek.kritz]

Not disagreeing with you, but has it actually been shown that the pump has a greater gain than divorcing the system? That seems backwards to me, but maybe once things get warmed up divorcing the systems has a lower return.

No prob, you can disagree. This isn't at all my data. This is the people that don't have the pump in there system. So, I'm sure it's bias by them for sure.

[Jroyalty7]

Not disagreeing with you, but has it actually been shown that the pump has a greater gain than divorcing the system? That seems backwards to me, but maybe once things get warmed up divorcing the systems has a lower return.

I think he was listing them from greatest to least gain, hence he is saying exactly what you're saying lol! The pump has a greater gain than divorcing the system, according to both of you ;)

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[BernanksBeard]

In our exact application, I can't say for sure the pros/cons of the extra pump and divorcing the SC loop. I haven't gathered or collected any data myself. In theory, higher pressure equals better more efficiency. If AMS isn't lying about increasing flow from 4.5 gpm to 7 gpm then there has to be a major benefit. And if that's true then divorcing the system is losing out on the pressure created from a 200 degree engine loop. Remember that under normal driving conditions your supercharger loop is the same temperature as the air going through the heat exchanger, because no boost equals no heat.

But to counter my own argument, it's possible that the smallest sections of the remaining OEM parts (the intercoolers and pipes leading down the front of the engine) are at capacity and unable to provide more flow.

[Lamprey]

I think he was listing them from greatest to least gain, hence he is saying exactly what you're saying lol! The pump has a greater gain than divorcing the system, according to both of you ;)

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Perhaps I worded that poorly. I'm saying that I think that divorcing the systems would have a greater gain than a higher flow pump.

The caveat I put in there (which is probably the confusing part) is that once the system warms up, that per perhaps divorcing wouldn't provide as much of a gain over a high flow pump. I could be completely wrong and no matter the situation the pump has a greater gain than divorcing the systems. That's why I was curious to see if there are any numbers to show if one is better either way. I can guess that it's a wash and it doesn't really matter, but still curious..

[Jroyalty7]

Perhaps I worded that poorly. I'm saying that I think that divorcing the systems would have a greater gain than a higher flow pump.

The caveat I put in there (which is probably the confusing part) is that once the system warms up, that per perhaps divorcing wouldn't provide as much of a gain over a high flow pump. I could be completely wrong and no matter the situation the pump has a greater gain than divorcing the systems. That's why I was curious to see if there are any numbers to show if one is better either way. I can guess that it's a wash and it doesn't really matter, but still curious..

Ahh gotcha, that I cant help with lol as I have neither at the moment, but hopefully someday soon

[Jv218]

The revo price isn't bad would love to see some more data on how it performs vs awe and others


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[waxxonMTL]

I might be talking completely out of my ass, but I feel like if you are racing, you should get the whole kit just for peace of mind. If you really care about every bit of performance and do drag racing from times to times, then you need this kit for constant time. if you live in the south, then you might also need the full kit.. and finally if you live up north, you might be fine with just the intercooler.

Honestly, if i ever go dual pulley ( all i do is daily driving and burst of acceleration from times to times), i believe i will just do intercooler and stop there.

[jran76]

Perhaps I worded that poorly. I'm saying that I think that divorcing the systems would have a greater gain than a higher flow pump.

The caveat I put in there (which is probably the confusing part) is that once the system warms up, that per perhaps divorcing wouldn't provide as much of a gain over a high flow pump. I could be completely wrong and no matter the situation the pump has a greater gain than divorcing the systems. That's why I was curious to see if there are any numbers to show if one is better either way. I can guess that it's a wash and it doesn't really matter, but still curious..

According to the study guide, and from I can see on the actual car, there is only a small place the engine coolant and supercharger coolant mix. That's basically the expansion tank; to the point that the supercharger loop would pickup a very minimal amount of engine coolant heat. It's a small enough amount, that divorcing the systems has a minimal impact. The study guide is VERY clear about this (see below).

The side effect of divorcing the systems is that you won't know if you lose the coolant in the S/C loop. Combine those two factors, and it's not worth it to me.

You can see the one place the systems or loops mix below (bottom left-hand corner). The intercoolers are T and V, the supercharger heat exchanger is R, and the expansion tank is B.


If you're not sure about this, read the first few lines of the below excerpt from the study guide a couple of times. The key take aways should be that the circuits are considered separate, and the temps typically run cooler in the intercooler circuit because of that.

[shoe3k]

All the components really need to work well together when it comes cooling performance. A larger reservoir will just take longer to heat up and take longer to cool, which makes a higher flowing pump necessary because it will take the stock pump too long to feed the heat exchanger to do its job. Remember, a larger reservoir will have the potential to store more energy and if the system cannot keep up with transferring that energy it will eventually overwhelm the entire system.

I'm not saying upgrading all the components is a bad idea or a waste of money, but I think that just upgrading the heat exchanger is not out of the question. I might try out the Revo cooler when I get tuned at the end of the summer and see how it performs.

[Zaxon55]

Thanks guys, this is just the sort of info I was looking for. From the thread it sounds like you could conceivable go either way and have it be beneficial, but given I want to run this at the track I would prefer to have any additional cooling benefit I can get from increased flow with the pump.
Looks like the Alpha for me. Much appreciated for all the knowledge and advice.

[Lamprey]

According to the study guide, and from I can see on the actual car, there is only a small place the engine coolant and supercharger coolant mix. That's basically the expansion tank; to the point that the supercharger loop would pickup a very minimal amount of engine coolant heat. It's a small enough amount, that divorcing the systems has a minimal impact. The study guide is VERY clear about this (see below).

The side effect of divorcing the systems is that you won't know if you lose the coolant in the S/C loop. Combine those two factors, and it's not worth it to me.

Ahh! Thanks for the info. That make perfect sense. I didn't realize the systems were separated quiet like that. Additionally, I'd have to agree with you that divorcing the systems wouldn't be worth not knowing if you loose coolant in the S/C loop.

[AudBoost]

Great info Jran!!

[djrosso]

Hello do you happen to know if your review college will fit B8?

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[djrosso]

FFS Revo cooler

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[2by2handsofblue]

So how has the revo or the ams worked out? It's been about 4yrs. Just curious cause I'm new to the scene amd looking to upgrade.
It seems merc is by far the popular choice. But also, some folks went to more pricey route for hx.

we are the borg! resistance is futile.