2017--Fwd vs Quattro

[birrclan]

Drove a fully loaded sport, tech, prem plus, with 19" today and was really surprised. Absolutely no torque steer, cvt transmission is gone, and the new engine is a blast. Question is, absent climate or road conditions where Quattro is a real enhancement, is there any reason to spend the additional couple thousand dollars for Quattro?

[SickAvant]

Yes! Rainy Days!

Drove a fully loaded sport, tech, prem plus, with 19" today and was really surprised. Absolutely no torque steer, cvt transmission is gone, and the new engine is a blast. Question is, absent climate or road conditions where Quattro is a real enhancement, is there any reason to spend the additional couple thousand dollars for Quattro?

[superswiss]

Performance, Handling and Grip. Quattro in its current rear biased form is as much if not more about performance and handling as it is about grip and all-weather traction. Especially on S models and higher if equipped with the sport differential. Perhaps not as big of a factor on an A4 as opposed to an S4, but still worth it.

[casualalfredo]

Audi with no AWD makes ZERO sense to me but then again I live in Connecticut

I guess if I lived in FL it wouldn't matter........

[cam0719]

I guess if I lived in FL it wouldn't matter........

Yes! Rainy Days!

This.

Every day I come to a stop sign where I need to make a right turn onto a very busy 45-50mph road with only brief openings in traffic. Sometimes the roads are wet. With Quattro I can still dart right out into an opening and get right up to speed as if the road were dry. FWD car in same conditions - lets just say I have to sit and wait for a bigger opening.

[NPuter]

When things were dry, I had no problems with my FWD A4. And I had the CVT (which I didn't mind at all). It never touched snow, and I took it easy when roads were wet.
It was APR stage II, lowered, wide(ish) tires, and I enjoyed driving that more than my S5 in stock form

Loved that car

[RudyH]

Drove a fully loaded sport, tech, prem plus, with 19" today and was really surprised. Absolutely no torque steer, cvt transmission is gone, and the new engine is a blast. Question is, absent climate or road conditions where Quattro is a real enhancement, is there any reason to spend the additional couple thousand dollars for Quattro?

TBH, this is only a discussion if the A4 came in RWD. Otherwise there are a LOT of better FWD cars on the market to save you even more money, then a couple hundred for Quattro.

[B7Night]

I've driven both my B7 quattro, and a B7 fwd loaner. There was no comparison in the snow. The fwd handling was as bad as my old Jetta was in the snow. The new quattro Ultra system that's being phased in on the B9's is unfortunately an automatic front drive based part time system that saves a bit of fuel. It won't have the rear drive bias. The rear axel disconnects when the car thinks awd is not needed. Basically the new system will either be 100% front drive or in the most extreme case, a 50/50 split between front and rear when the clutch closes all the way. To hide the front drive biased dynamics, the brakes are used to help the car pivot in cornering. For those of us who are use to quattro meaning full time awd, that will no longer be the case in the near future. Now Cadillac on certain models, and BMW also disconnect an axel in their awd, but at least in the performance car spirit, it's the front axel that gets disconnected.

[pkny]

I've driven both my B7 quattro, and a B7 fwd loaner. There was no comparison in the snow. The fwd handling was as bad as my old Jetta was in the snow. The new quattro Ultra system that's being phased in on the B9's is unfortunately an automatic front drive based part time system that saves a bit of fuel. It won't have the rear drive bias. The rear axel disconnects when the car thinks awd is not needed. Basically the new system will either be 100% front drive or in the most extreme case, a 50/50 split between front and rear when the clutch closes all the way. To hide the front drive biased dynamics, the brakes are used to help the car pivot in cornering. For those of us who are use to quattro meaning full time awd, that will no longer be the case in the near future. Now Cadillac on certain models, and BMW also disconnect an axel in their awd, but at least in the performance car spirit, it's the front axel that gets disconnected.

Thats a really good point. At least for the B9+ with the "Ultra" Quattro system, folks like the OP might benefit very little if any from the Quattro system.

update:
A neat video demostrating how the "Quattro with ultra technology" works. I'm pretty sure many of you seen it already.


So i gotta retract what i said before about no benefits with the new Quattro. It looks like if a road has twist and turns, then the car would probably be a 50:50 (FWD:AWD) ratio when driving. Not including coming from a start, when driving straight in dry, wet or ice the system would be FWD bias.

[riegeraudi]

If you are going to buy a FWD Audi than you can save lots of money by buying a Passat. Go Quattro or go VW.

[NPuter]

If you are going to buy a FWD Audi than you can save lots of money by buying a Passat. Go Quattro or go VW.

Love these comments

[dbuxton13]

Buying a FWD Audi is like voting for Trump. Just...why?

[car]

Buying a FWD Audi is like buying a 2WD pick up truck.

[riegeraudi]

Buying a front wheel drive luxury car is just a total joke.
No real luxury car is going to have a FWD. Only lower end so called luxury cars will have FWD while all the upper end luxury cars all have AWD or RWD.

[wabbit23]

I stopped by the local dealer to test drive a new A4 the other day. I thought it was kind of funny when I requested to test drive a Quattro A4 and was brought a FWD A4.

The sales rep said I wouldn't be able to feel the difference and even tried to bring up the measly 1-2 mpg advantage over the Quattro one. I was baffled over him pushing FWD over AWD on a $50k car. If you can afford to spend that much on a car Im sure you can deal with 1-2 mpg less. And if the MPG is the main concern then either an A3, VW or better yet, 6MT A4 would suffice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dtb24]

I purchased the FWD. And I came from a Quattro. I swore to never go with a FWD but my dealer also convinced me to try it and I was very surprised. I thought that was pretty weird as well considering I never made price seem like an issue and they had an identical car in a Quattro. Wonder if Audi is trying prove something here?

But after taking both on an extensive test drive, I felt like the Quattro wasn't absolutely necessary for my needs and didn't hurt to save a couple of bucks. So I pulled the trigger

[superswiss]

To be perfectly honest, the average A4 driver really won't feel the difference between FWD and AWD in most daily driving situations. They putter along at 35 mph in the city or 65-70 mph on the highway, don't peel off from a start with front wheel spin and don't take corners like Hans-Joachim Stuck. Once in a while they may find themselves in snow where they might have to put on chains on their FWD to get themselves unstuck, but really most people don't take advantage of AWD.

[b6onboost]

Realist Answer:

Most of the time you don't need AWD. Its a nice to have, but FWD/RWD can get you around perfectly fine, even in snow, so long as you're careful. In the rain you'll have to take it easy too since the stock A4 torque can easily overpower FWD. I've driven some high power FWD GTIs and they were still great cars, even when driven hard, they just struggled for traction in 1st-2nd gear when going WOT.

My opinion:

Quattro is the most stable drivetrain I've ever driven. Its amazing how (in dry, wet, or snow) you can simply point the car, mash the gas, and go with virtually no loss of traction. Its always been the best thing (mechanically) about buying an Audi. To me its 100% worth it and I wouldn't buy an Audi without it. While Quattro may be more expensive initially, it also holds its value better, so overall its barely more (if at all) expensive.

[mjt20mik]

My honest opinion.

Audi is known for its legendary quattro. Buying a fwd audi is the equivalent to going to a top of the line steakhouse and ordering chicken. It doesn't make sense. If you don't have conditions where you need AWD, I would just suggest getting a BMW/Porsche with RWD. There is no point spending so much money on a FWD Audi.

[casuso]

You will be fine with the FWD.

Seems like nobody cared about your statement "absent climate or road conditions where Quattro is a real enhancement, is there any reason to spend the additional couple thousand dollars for Quattro". For normal driving conditions FWD is enough, millions of people around the world drive FWD cars.

[wabbit23]

You will be fine with the FWD.

Seems like nobody cared about your statement "absent climate or road conditions where Quattro is a real enhancement, is there any reason to spend the additional couple thousand dollars for Quattro". For normal driving conditions FWD is enough, millions of people around the world drive FWD cars.

Okay, but coming from San Diego where its 70 and sunny almost year round I still can find AWD to come in handy over FWD. Primarily in the rare occasion when it does just so happen to rain out here. If anything it helps to avoid the horrendous drivers who lose their s@&t when it sprinkles. Not to mention when the last major "storm" did leave about a foot of snow in our local mountains, which were only about a 30 minute drive from my house. It was nice having complete traction up there when even some other AWD cars (Grand Cherokee, Sequoia) were getting stuck.

On the other hand though, I completely understand how some good tires like Conti DWS's or even Michelin A/S3's (as I'm running) would help a FWD car in most inclement weather conditions.

[redline380]

Ton's of valid points so far, but I'll reiterate.

Quattro to FWD is like a missile defense system to no missile defense system- it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. The argument that you don't need AWD in Florida, while retaining some merit, it stupid,

Also, let's think resale value here. The second I see a FWD Audi for sale I laugh and think "that sucker actually bought a FWD audi."

And like others have said, a FWD audi is just an expensive volkswagen. So congrats, you overpaid for a VW. However, I am willing to be this new AWD "ultra" system is going to be garbage. So, I wouldn't even purchase a b9.

[cjs120309]

redline380 brought up a good point about the resale value (or the "perception" of the value). Even many "non-car" people know the word quattro and associate Audi with it almost immediately. Heck, it's one of the biggest reasons I bought an Audi when I decided I wanted an AWD luxury German vehicle.

Test drive both, and (if you can) do it on a rainy day. Then ask yourself if there is even a slight chance you would regret needing it but not having it. That should help give you your answer.

[NPuter]

I already said this all, but I'll reiterate. I had a FWD B8 A4 and now have a Quattro B8.5 S5.

I drove both back-to-back on twisty mountain roads and can honestly say I preferred the way my modded A4 felt compared to the stock S5.

The A4 was APR stage II, on coils and had 255 tires.

If you're buying the car mainly for the design/styling, I see nothing wrong with the FWD, especially now that it has stronic.

[b6onboost]

If you drive both, even on dry pavement, there is a noticeable difference in the way they feel.

One is FWD pull while the other is rear-biased AWD. All you need is mild corner or on ramp to feel how FWD understeers and plows while Quattro rotates nicely pushing you into the corner and then transferring power to pull you out. On test drives my wife was in the passenger seat and could even tell how much more composed the Quattro model was over the FWD model we just drove.

FWD is all you need, but Quattro is better (and worth it) period.

[b6onboost]

I believe it, but its not a fair comparison.

You had a FWD car with suspension mods, better tires, and more mid-range torque than that stock AWD S5.

I challenge anyone to drive a FWD A4 then a Quattro A4 (all else the same) back to back and tell me you actually prefer the FWD. Won't happen. You can justify why you bought FWD all day long, and that's fine if you love it, but that doesn't change the fact that Quattro is better.

I already said this all, but I'll reiterate. I had a FWD B8 A4 and now have a Quattro B8.5 S5.

I drove both back-to-back on twisty mountain roads and can honestly say I preferred the way my modded A4 felt compared to the stock S5.

The A4 was APR stage II, on coils and had 255 tires.

If you're buying the car mainly for the design/styling, I see nothing wrong with the FWD, especially now that it has stronic.

[NPuter]

I believe it, but its not a fair comparison.

You had a FWD car with suspension mods, better tires, and more mid-range torque than that stock QWD S5.

I challenge anyone to drive a FWD A4 then a Quattro A4 (all else the same) back to back and tell me you prefer the FWD. Won't happen.

Yes, all completely accurate points. Just trying to say that FWD doesn't make the car terrible by default.

[redline380]

I really don't even know why this thread exists. The B9 with quattro, will essentially be 99.99% FWD anyways.

If you want a real quattro car, stick with a b8 or go vintage. Remember when quattro was cool and had locking center and rear diffs? It has been so watered down now all it is is FWD with the ability to kick the rear tires in occasionally. Big pass from me.

[kevinnijjar23]

My B9 is my DD and FWD is perfect for florida weather so far but when it does rain I take the A5 quattro out :D

Best of both worlds

[JeriQo]

quattro is no questions better than FWD when it comes to performance.

if you like launching, driving fast and live in a place with rough winters, quattro is for you.
if you just want the audi luxury feel and looks and do not drive like jeff gordon, fwd.

i have a fwd. i think its what caters to my driving style.

- - - Updated - - -

When things were dry, I had no problems with my FWD A4. And I had the CVT (which I didn't mind at all). It never touched snow, and I took it easy when roads were wet.
It was APR stage II, lowered, wide(ish) tires, and I enjoyed driving that more than my S5 in stock form

Loved that car

thats a nice b8. looking at this is making me wanna lower mine

[circle]

Honestly I don't even know why Audi makes non-q cars. I'm actually not sure why they make A version cars either. They're as boring as anything. My civic was more fun than an A4 (and that was FWD )

[superswiss]

The B9 with quattro, will essentially be 99.99% FWD anyways.

No, just no. You really need to do your homework before posting such things. The B9 A4 Quattro sold here has a locking center differential. The Quattro Ultra system that you are referring to and everybody is freaking out about is a different story. Ultra stands for a series of highly fuel efficient engine trims that so far are only sold in Europe. These trims have additional tweaks to lower the drag coefficient and other things to make them very fuel efficient. So far the Ultra trim was only available with FWD in markets such as Germany. The Quattro Ultra is an AWD drivetrain for these Ultra trims and will be sold alongside the regular Quattro system. None of the Ultra trims have been sold yet in the North American market anyway. The first model that will be available as a Quattro Ultra is the new Allroad.

Even if you don't understand German, you may wanna check out the engine trims on audi.de and notice how Ultra is a separate engine trim and none of the Quattro models are currently available as Ultra.

http://www.audi.de/de/brand/de/neuwa...ine/motor.html

[somedude]

Ton's of valid points so far, but I'll reiterate.

Quattro to FWD is like a missile defense system to no missile defense system- it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. The argument that you don't need AWD in Florida, while retaining some merit, it stupid,

Also, let's think resale value here. The second I see a FWD Audi for sale I laugh and think "that sucker actually bought a FWD audi."

And like others have said, a FWD audi is just an expensive volkswagen. So congrats, you overpaid for a VW. However, I am willing to be this new AWD "ultra" system is going to be garbage. So, I wouldn't even purchase a b9.

I work at a german specialty repair shop and we are at auction all the time buying and selling audi and vw. I live in buffalo NY and any time a non quatro audi comes up at auction here in the north I always watch it because they are unbelievably cheap, because no dealer wants to touch one. If you want a nice car that is cheaper I get where your head is at but I would wager a guess that you will loose out big time on residual when you go to sell it. The couple grand you are saving now might cost you double that when it is time to sell. Do some research on used FWD audi models and see the difference in price. Not to mention your market that you are selling to is MUCH MUCH smaller.

AS far as how they drive... it has been well covered in the thread. I just have memories of blasting my audi A8 track car around a road course in the rain doing things other cars can't

[NPuter]

No, just no. You really need to do your homework before posting such things. The B9 A4 Quattro sold here has a locking center differential. The Quattro Ultra system that you are referring to and everybody is freaking out about is a different story. Ultra stands for a series of highly fuel efficient engine trims that so far are only sold in Europe. These trims have additional tweaks to lower the drag coefficient and other things to make them very fuel efficient. So far the Ultra trim was only available with FWD in markets such as Germany. The Quattro Ultra is an AWD drivetrain for these Ultra trims and will be sold alongside the regular Quattro system. None of the Ultra trims have been sold yet in the North American market anyway. The first model that will be available as a Quattro Ultra is the new Allroad.

Even if you don't understand German, you may wanna check out the engine trims on audi.de and notice how Ultra is a separate engine trim and none of the Quattro models are currently available as Ultra.

http://www.audi.de/de/brand/de/neuwa...ine/motor.html

Thanks for clarifying! Everyone is freaking out about Quattro ultra, but I didn't think it was a thing here yet. It's good to have confirmation.

[superswiss]

Also, the Quattro Ultra system is not nearly as bad as everybody makes it out to be. This is not like the Haldex system. It doesn't require wheel slip before it engages AWD. It's predictive. For example if it detects that you are a spirited/dynamic driver it will permanently engage AWD unless you are really just cruising along. Similarly, if you put Drive Select in dynamic mode, it will be permanently engaged. Sure just like the Haldex, it won't be rear-biased, but as opposed to the Haldex, it can be optioned with the sport differential. There are some very informative YouTube videos that show the system in full action in the real world with an engineer sitting next to the driver with a tablet in hand that shows in real time the status of the system. They are all in German, though. For the purpose it was developed and the model it's going into it makes a lot of sense. This system is not meant to go into S/RS models where driving dynamics matters. This is a drivetrain for the non-enthusiast who cares about fuel economy, but doesn't wanna give up AWD.

[ben1364]

Right. It depends on how you intend to use the truck or the A4

[riegeraudi]

I already said this all, but I'll reiterate. I had a FWD B8 A4 and now have a Quattro B8.5 S5.

I drove both back-to-back on twisty mountain roads and can honestly say I preferred the way my modded A4 felt compared to the stock S5.

The A4 was APR stage II, on coils and had 255 tires.

If you're buying the car mainly for the design/styling, I see nothing wrong with the FWD, especially now that it has stronic.

If you think FWD is better or just as good as AWD then tell ALL the manufacturers who are going to AWD even on their high performance cars because AWD provides better handling and more grip to put the power down. EVen BMW's M division will implement AWD into the M5 and M3.
Don't see them going to FWD.

[dbuxton13]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeeZstYO5Oo

Watch, and then stop mucking about with FWD. Audi is Quattro.

[dtb24]

That was a cool video. Don't think anyone will argue that FWD is somehow better or even just as good. Quattro truly is legendary and makes me feel invincible on the road. But I think people were making the point that fwd is not complete crap and audi did a decent job improving their FWD with this generation. And for SOME owners FWD will be just fine. In my boring daily drive where I spend most of my time in traffic nothing really matters lol I might as well be in a prius.

[JMG]

I don't know why anyone would bother with a FWD Audi if you are an enthusiast of any kind. Don't get me wrong, a FWD A4 is a fine car for commuting, but if you have any interest in performance whatsoever, there are better options than a FWD A4. Quattro all the way, that's what Audi is known for IMHO. In the end, however, you get what you want and don't let my dumb opinion sway you.