Should I get it fixed? (B6 S4 Timing Chain) 94K

[ReeS4e]

My 2004 is one of the cleanest you'll find so it pains me to get rid of it. It's in the shop now and they figure it needs about 5K in timing chain work. One of the guides went so it still runs and the chain still rotates, but with the value of the car so little and with the risk of other problems after doing repairs, I'm not sure I want to pull the trigger. They tell me it also has cylinder wall scoring, which would be causing my higher oil consumption. It used to consistently use 1 qt between changes, but over the last couple of years, I would be on a road trip and I'd have to add a quart. Then after another 20 minutes, the light would come one again. Then it would be fine until the next change (5K Full Syn). The shop said that scoring would probably stay the same and won't get much worse. However, I've read that leads to issues with rods and pistons. What's the cost to replace those or will it now help?

I don't want to walk away but I'm starting to think it's best to cut my losses. I don't actually need another car. I have a truck, but this was my baby. I work from home, so it never needed to be a daily driver. It has 94K on it.

It has a bunch of JHM parts, FB exhaust, tune, trio shift kit, Stage 3 clutch and LW flywheel, They blame the scoring on the tune and extreme timing advancement.
[IMG][/IMG]

[JS4Avant]

Keep it, I'm going through the same dilemma with my s4 avant. I have some cylinder scoring as well. Best of luck though whatever you do


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guitarmageddon]

Dump it... Sometimes grandpa's heart goes bad and you just have to put him in hospice care and let him die.

Stop drinking so much oil, gramps

[Slow4]

Just man up and do it; you're not going to get a good or even decent ROI if you sell it with a broken guide.

Also, stop driving it if you can until you get those guides replace...no point in possibly going into load and causing timing to skip.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cruzzin]

How do they know the tune caused the cylinder wall scoring? Many people have that issue and don't have the tune!

[komseh]

How do they know the tune caused the cylinder wall scoring? Many people have that issue and don't have the tune!

They don't know. A lot of mechanics like to blame aftermarket tunes because it's easy to point the finger at that when there is nothing obvious to blame.

[Mr.Wrong]

How do they know the tune caused the cylinder wall scoring? Many people have that issue and don't have the tune!

Exactly! Shops like to talk out of their ass and blame aftermarket parts quite often. This is a prime example of such behavior. BHFs are known to have cylinder scoring issue due to owners neglect.

[Mr.Wrong]

If you work from home and don't mind getting dirty, I'd DIY this. However due to the excessive oil consumption, I'd rather source replacement engine, whether it's new or used. If it's used, you might as well throw in new guides in there.

[Concavitor]

I would say keep it, but the cylinder wall scoring makes me say it is time to let it go. Just sell it as is and move on quickly.

[VinnysS4]

I guess it depends on how much you want to spend on this car. If you have scored cylinder walls, i would ditch the block for another. Either way, you will have to build the engine back to working condition. You could buy a new replacement engine for around 10k, but that would still come with the defective guides. My opinion: buy a good used engine without scored cylinder walls, and throw the JHM parts on it. Should be good for a long time to go! Selling a S4 with bad timing chain guides.....good luck. you wont get much from the average person unless they either A. plan on doing the work themselves or B. are blind and will drive it until it blows up.
Best of luck!

[IslandHydro]

Do you love your car like I love mine? If so, fix it. If not...

[Mr. Corey]

1st time I've read this thread! Wait no this is all anyone ever posts here anymore.......Sorry to hear about your timing troubles but its part of owning a b6/7 S4. As far as the scoring goes depending on how bad it is...... Be sure to upgrade your collision policy when you drive it off a cliff JK if its a weekend car and you plan on keeping it another 10 yrs get a new longblock and call it a day.

[icanfly]

"Scored Cylinders" are a pretty wide open diagnosis. Yes, it drinks oil, but so what, these engines to that... Get a compression test and decide if the motor is worth saving - you don't even have 100K yet!?. If it is, pull it yourself, do the chain job on your own and save yourself a shit ton of money. It's seriously so much less complicated than people think and with DIY's you have only to follow simple instructions to do the work. It's just a time sync and you need to order parts from JHM. Do the clutch/salve cyl and LWFW while you're in there. Drive it for another 80K... it's such a clean car and seems like a horrible waste to walk away from a car like that.

[verstappen]

Dump it... Sometimes grandpa's heart goes bad and you just have to put him in hospice care and let him die.

Stop drinking so much oil, gramps

I have been thinking about this as well, I have an 04 with chains, guides and adjusters done 10k miles ago, but nasty oil consumption, I mean, 1 quart over 400 miles give or take, and if I go on a road trip I use 4-5 quarts on 600 miles. The car is gorgeous, runs great and I love it. But a new block sounds ridiculous for a car of its current value, even a used one in "good" condition is kinda silly. So I am not going to keep dumping money on this car, I thought of swapping a Stage 3 2.7 into it and keep the car that way but still not a final decision. I already have a B5S4.

For as nice as these cars are, Audi totally fucked up, between the cylinder scoring and the chains and guides these cars can easily be an absolute nightmare for some people without either knowledge or resources to deal with their problems.

Bottom line, I believe mine (as nice as it sits) it is approaching the end of its life. Unless I throw it in the garage for a long time and make it a project, which sounds crazy when I already own 2 more Audis lol.

[ReeS4e]

OP here. A new engine is going to run 17K installed. As much as I like this car, the technology is behind and it's just not worth it. If I can spend 5K and be assured it will last another 80K, I'd do the chains. But it's the scoring that has me concerned. They didn't put a boroscope in there, but the fact that my oild consumption has increased to two quarts almost simultaneously between changes, they figure that's the reason it's burning up. They will do the boroscope if I ask them to. They said anyone that comes in with a tune has it worse. They say advanced timing just shakes the shit out of it. This shop does specialize in Audi, Porsche, VW and they've done a few of these.

They do warranty the work for a year so what I'm thinking of doing is getting the work done and selling it. At least then I can drive while it's up for sale.

I had an offer for 6K, but it just seems ridiculous given the condition of the car and what's done to it. If I fix it, I'll probably put it up for 15 and get 14 for it considering nothing else out there will have this work done to it, and if that's the case we know it's a ticking time bomb. I'm lucky in the sense the chain didn't go and it can be repaired.

No way I'm doing the work myself. I have enough to worry to about already and the car is sitting in the garage at this point.

Here's the work I have done.
JHM tune for 93 w/ launch control
JHM Downpipes and catback
Stage 3 JHM clutch w/ LWFW done at 75K
LW Crank Pulley done at 75K
Stiff engine snub mount
JHM trio shift kit done at 75K
Smoked sidemarkers
RS4 replicas
Tinted tails (high quality film, can't tell)
35% tint on the windows.
Auxiliary input under dash for smartphone

I think that's all of it.

[JimmyBones]

OP here. A new engine is going to run 17K installed. As much as I like this car, the technology is behind and it's just not worth it. If I can spend 5K and be assured it will last another 80K, I'd do the chains. But it's the scoring that has me concerned. They didn't put a boroscope in there, but the fact that my oild consumption has increased to two quarts almost simultaneously between changes, they figure that's the reason it's burning up. They will do the boroscope if I ask them to. They said anyone that comes in with a tune has it worse. They say advanced timing just shakes the shit out of it. This shop does specialize in Audi, Porsche, VW and they've done a few of these.

They do warranty the work for a year so what I'm thinking of doing is getting the work done and selling it. At least then I can drive while it's up for sale.

I had an offer for 6K, but it just seems ridiculous given the condition of the car and what's done to it. If I fix it, I'll probably put it up for 15 and get 14 for it considering nothing else out there will have this work done to it, and if that's the case we know it's a ticking time bomb. I'm lucky in the sense the chain didn't go and it can be repaired.

No way I'm doing the work myself. I have enough to worry to about already and the car is sitting in the garage at this point.

Here's the work I have done.
JHM tune for 93 w/ launch control
JHM Downpipes and catback
Stage 3 JHM clutch w/ LWFW done at 75K
LW Crank Pulley done at 75K
Stiff engine snub mount
JHM trio shift kit done at 75K
Smoked sidemarkers
RS4 replicas
Tinted tails (high quality film, can't tell)
35% tint on the windows.
Auxiliary input under dash for smartphone

I think that's all of it.

I bolded a part that bothers me. Without actually checking if you have scored cylinder walls then they are just guessing. I have seen S4s with bad PCV valves and/or leaking valve stem seals drink a lot of engine oil too. You posted that during long periods of highway driving that the oil consumption went up. That can be caused by things other than cylinder wall scoring.

Has your PCV valve ever been replaced? It is a common problem for VWs and Audis to have bad PCV valves on basically every model. I can't tell you how many VWs and Audis that people ask me about and the first thing that I do is check the PCV to find it is bad.
Do you see any blue smoke? Like at cold start up or while driving down the highway when you coast downhill in gear and then get on the gas again.

I would advise you to replace the PCV valve if it hasn't ever been replaced or you can't remember if it has been replaced. It is cheap enough at like $60 for the aftermarket brand parts and like $130 for the OEM part plus a hour of labor. Then check for smoke at those two conditions that I mentioned above, cold start and after decal on the highway. Also get engine compression and cylinder leakage tests done along with getting the cylinders walls boroscoped to see the health of the lower end of the engine. That way you spend a little bit of money now to find out if your car is worth spending more money on in the future or if you need to get rid of it. Think of this as an investment in determining the health of the car.

EDIT: By the way, your car is a LOT like mine but less modded. I have a silver 2004 as well. They really are great cars!

[Rustyweb7]

Yeah, I noticed the advertisement was removed from CL. I wish you the best of luck!

[andrew.k]

Is it only me that thinks 5k isnt that bad?

Get that 4.2 roaring again, you wont regret it!

[Crispy Waffle]

My S4 was burning oil when I bought it, probably 1 quart every 1000miles. I immediately changed the PCV and the oil consumption is now less than a quart in between oil changes (5000 miles). PCV can make a big difference, so I would check that first and replace it if you have not already.

Edit - I also changed my oil to Liquid-moly 5w-40 at the same time of getting the PCV changed out. I am sure the combination of both helped in the oil consumption reduction.

Good luck with what ever option you choose!

[ReeS4e]

Is it only me that thinks 5k isnt that bad?

Get that 4.2 roaring again, you wont regret it!

Considering how much I have into the car, 5K is just plain pathetic. I've put about 55K miles on the car myself. Between purchase price, mods and financing. it has cost me roughly $1200-1300 for every 1,000 miles driven.
I could probably get more for my 03 R1 if I sold that now.

I decided to go ahead with the fix. JHM suggested I use their parts, but I've had enough with aftermarket issues. Prime Motoring in NJ had such a hard time installing the trio shift kit, they actually only wanted to install 2 pieces. They eventually put it all in but I needed them to adjust reverse it was such a safety hazard. Now it shifts adequately, but it's not what I would expect from a short shifter. I had another speed shop do the exhaust and they a hard time getting that positioned. They tried to give it to me with one pipe extending a couple of inches farther than the other and one was an inch or so lower. Very obvious. I had them work on it until they got it close, but they wanted to cut it originally. We had words. So with that, I'm not taking any chances at the back of the engine and I'll go with the upgraded OEM components per the installer's recommendation.

I did recommend the PCV valve and they agreed it's not a bad idea. Thanks for the recommendation. Engine checks out good.

[Lucca M]

my friend in pa works on audis. he is on here, you could talk with him maybe he will do it cheaper than what they quoted you. his name is xhackereckx

[ReeS4e]

my friend in pa works on audis. he is on here, you could talk with him maybe he will do it cheaper than what they quoted you. his name is xhackereckx

I'm in NC now, Chapel Hill.

[JimmyBones]

You wouldn't be going to GMP or GMG would you? I forget which is in NC.

[andrew.k]

Considering how much I have into the car, 5K is just plain pathetic. I've put about 55K miles on the car myself. Between purchase price, mods and financing. it has cost me roughly $1200-1300 for every 1,000 miles driven.
I could probably get more for my 03 R1 if I sold that now.

I decided to go ahead with the fix. JHM suggested I use their parts, but I've had enough with aftermarket issues. Prime Motoring in NJ had such a hard time installing the trio shift kit, they actually only wanted to install 2 pieces. They eventually put it all in but I needed them to adjust reverse it was such a safety hazard. Now it shifts adequately, but it's not what I would expect from a short shifter. I had another speed shop do the exhaust and they a hard time getting that positioned. They tried to give it to me with one pipe extending a couple of inches farther than the other and one was an inch or so lower. Very obvious. I had them work on it until they got it close, but they wanted to cut it originally. We had words. So with that, I'm not taking any chances at the back of the engine and I'll go with the upgraded OEM components per the installer's recommendation.

I did recommend the PCV valve and they agreed it's not a bad idea. Thanks for the recommendation. Engine checks out good.

I think you made the right choice, it just looked so good in those pictures. I do miss my S4

[Mr. Corey]

Considering how much I have into the car, 5K is just plain pathetic. I've put about 55K miles on the car myself. Between purchase price, mods and financing. it has cost me roughly $1200-1300 for every 1,000 miles driven.
I could probably get more for my 03 R1 if I sold that now.

I decided to go ahead with the fix. JHM suggested I use their parts, but I've had enough with aftermarket issues. Prime Motoring in NJ had such a hard time installing the trio shift kit, they actually only wanted to install 2 pieces. They eventually put it all in but I needed them to adjust reverse it was such a safety hazard. Now it shifts adequately, but it's not what I would expect from a short shifter. I had another speed shop do the exhaust and they a hard time getting that positioned. They tried to give it to me with one pipe extending a couple of inches farther than the other and one was an inch or so lower. Very obvious. I had them work on it until they got it close, but they wanted to cut it originally. We had words. So with that, I'm not taking any chances at the back of the engine and I'll go with the upgraded OEM components per the installer's recommendation.






I did recommend the PCV valve and they agreed it's not a bad idea. Thanks for the recommendation. Engine checks out good.

I'd get the JHM metal guide over the OEM version that always breaks..... if anything.

[evildsmr]

I'd get the JHM metal guide over the OEM one that always breaks if anything.

Whats surprising to me is that those plastic guides are still being sold even more so being manufactured still. I think that the plastic PN should be superceded and the metal one becoming the new PN for all timing replacements. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[Mr. Corey]

Whats surprising to me is that those plastic guides are still being sold even more so being manufactured still. I think that the plastic PN should be superceded and the metal one becoming the new PN for all timing replacements. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Yeah I dont understand either. I had my engine out for valve stem issues but replaced the timing just because even at 68k that notorious guide had a hairline crack in it.

[2004B6S4]

Whats surprising to me is that those plastic guides are still being sold even more so being manufactured still. I think that the plastic PN should be superceded and the metal one becoming the new PN for all timing replacements. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I don't think the metal one is an exact replacement, it's just that JHM found it was suitable to use as a replacement. The mounting holes are the same but I imagine the guide must have a slightly different profile, otherwise why not consider it a superceded version of the same part? I wish my original piece was still intact so I could compare the two.

I'm surprised nobody is offering a metal version of the other guides yet. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard since it's basically just copying the part that already exists, with a few modifications. Febi offers aftermarket tensioners for our cars, which is one part I can't imagine anyone cheaping out on. Schwaben is now selling a timing tool kit which is specifically for our motors only, which I was pleasantly surprised to find out about. Doesn't make sense to me that neither of those companies has come up with metal guides for this, since Schwaben is already making timing-related stuff for such a limited market and Febi would generate a lot more sales from a metal guide than they would from a cheap tensioner

[hkdolphins]

My S4 was burning oil when I bought it, probably 1 quart every 1000miles. I immediately changed the PCV and the oil consumption is now less than a quart in between oil changes (5000 miles). PCV can make a big difference, so I would check that first and replace it if you have not already.

Edit - I also changed my oil to Liquid-moly 5w-40 at the same time of getting the PCV changed out. I am sure the combination of both helped in the oil consumption reduction.

Good luck with what ever option you choose!

How many miles you have now? 1qt per 5000 miles is really good...

[hkdolphins]

Considering how much I have into the car, 5K is just plain pathetic. I've put about 55K miles on the car myself. Between purchase price, mods and financing. it has cost me roughly $1200-1300 for every 1,000 miles driven.
I could probably get more for my 03 R1 if I sold that now.

I decided to go ahead with the fix. JHM suggested I use their parts, but I've had enough with aftermarket issues. Prime Motoring in NJ had such a hard time installing the trio shift kit, they actually only wanted to install 2 pieces. They eventually put it all in but I needed them to adjust reverse it was such a safety hazard. Now it shifts adequately, but it's not what I would expect from a short shifter. I had another speed shop do the exhaust and they a hard time getting that positioned. They tried to give it to me with one pipe extending a couple of inches farther than the other and one was an inch or so lower. Very obvious. I had them work on it until they got it close, but they wanted to cut it originally. We had words. So with that, I'm not taking any chances at the back of the engine and I'll go with the upgraded OEM components per the installer's recommendation.

I did recommend the PCV valve and they agreed it's not a bad idea. Thanks for the recommendation. Engine checks out good.

$1.2K per 1K miles that mean you spent $60K already, it seem VERY high.

[ReeS4e]

Keep it, I'm going through the same dilemma with my s4 avant. I have some cylinder scoring as well. Best of luck though whatever you do


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you getting it fixed?

[ReeS4e]

$1.2K per 1K miles that mean you spent $60K already, it seem VERY high.

I bought it for 33K and and change back in 07 with 39K miles. With 5YR financing, it was over 60K, plus mods, rims and what not, we're at 65-70K.

This purchase ended up being a very bad decision. I hope I'm not making the same mistake again. In hindsight, from a reliability standpoint, I should have bought an M3.

- - - Updated - - -

How many miles you have now? 1qt per 5000 miles is really good...

94K. It's 2 quarts per 5000 miles now.

[ReeS4e]

I don't think the metal one is an exact replacement, it's just that JHM found it was suitable to use as a replacement. The mounting holes are the same but I imagine the guide must have a slightly different profile, otherwise why not consider it a superceded version of the same part? I wish my original piece was still intact so I could compare the two.

I'm surprised nobody is offering a metal version of the other guides yet. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard since it's basically just copying the part that already exists, with a few modifications. Febi offers aftermarket tensioners for our cars, which is one part I can't imagine anyone cheaping out on. Schwaben is now selling a timing tool kit which is specifically for our motors only, which I was pleasantly surprised to find out about. Doesn't make sense to me that neither of those companies has come up with metal guides for this, since Schwaben is already making timing-related stuff for such a limited market and Febi would generate a lot more sales from a metal guide than they would from a cheap tensioner

The new OEM guides, while still plastic, are much better. From what I understand, they are build solid instead of hollow like the original version.

[ReeS4e]

You wouldn't be going to GMP or GMG would you? I forget which is in NC.

I'm not sure what that is. Send me a link. I did go to Waterfest in NJ once.

[EUROSWAGR]

Hopefully your car isn't at Absolute..

[EUROSWAGR]

I bought it for 33K and and change back in 07 with 39K miles. With 5YR financing it's was over 60k.

That is insane....maybe I should start financing cars to people.

[ReeS4e]

Hopefully your car isn't at Absolute..

Oh boy. It is. Tell me why. It was between them and Automotive Solutions. I could have gone with either because they seemed to have a lot of experience, but I could tell Automotive Solutions didn't really want to get into the repair which is unfortunate because they are only a few miles from me. After talking with Scott at Absolute, I felt pretty comfortable with them and they have good reviews on yelp. There really aren't any specialized alternatives that I'm aware of.

[ReeS4e]

That is insane....maybe I should start financing cars to people.

Never mind. My math is wrong. I have no idea where I got that number from. My payments were 518 over 60 months.

[ReeS4e]

Here's a couple more pics:
[IMG][/IMG]

[JS4Avant]

Are you getting it fixed?

I am, slowly. Resources are hard here in Hawaii (big island) . But I have a good shop. Need to put on some more mileage before my warranty will cover replacement engine


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk