4.2 vs 2.8t

[kaleil]

Okay so I bought a 2.8 quattro a few weeks ago and decided a few days later I wanted to do a 4.2 swap after reading the threads on this forum....then last night I found out there was a thread for a 2.8 single turbo (of course through the use of some of the 2.7tt parts). So I was curious to hear everyone's input on which would be better for someone to do???

[Davdraco1]

I'm not sure what the difference between the 2.8 and the 2.7 engines internals are. I do know the 2.7 are very stout and are good for a bunch of power stock. Not many people have single turbo 2.8's so that wold be sweet. The 4.2's sound amazing but you need to fab up the rad support and some custom work but still awesome. With those motors there really isn't room for a bunch of power, the turbo is endless tho.

[kaleil]

I'm not sure what the difference between the 2.8 and the 2.7 engines internals are. I do know the 2.7 are very stout and are good for a bunch of power stock. Not many people have single turbo 2.8's so that wold be sweet. The 4.2's sound amazing but you need to fab up the rad support and some custom work but still awesome. With those motors there really isn't room for a bunch of power, the turbo is endless tho.

True but the sound of that 4.2 is what is winning me over. I don't want much when it comes to power maybe about 350 to 400 whp which both engines are close to reaching both.

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[rodgertherabit]

2.7t is inherently stronger and more available, not to mention flow VERY well with the factory 2.8 v6 harness along with most other stuff.

Nothing sounds like a straight piped 2.7t

Edit: re read the thread title... I would do a 4.2 over a 2.8 with a turbo add on

[tar]

From what most s4 guys with the stk 034 kit say it's a pos. Lots of stuff have to be refabbed. I would do a
4.2 over it. The 4.2 is not that close to reaching 400whp even in s6/s8 form it's 360 and that's crank hp so maybe 280-310 whp. It has that power through the whole rpm range tho and would be way more reliable. My .02

Start reading the stk s4 threads so you can see what they have had to fix. There's a local stk s4 for like 10-15k near me that's been for sale for ever and price depends on what clist ad you click on.

[rodgertherabit]

The 4.2 is not that close to reaching 400whp even in s6/s8 form it's 360 and that's crank hp so maybe 280-310 whp. It has that power through the whole rpm range tho and would be way more reliable. My .02

My buddy has a b7 s4 (4.2l) and Im as fast if not faster than it in most situations... even with a measly 15psi on my gtx2867r.

[Nollywood]

I would pick the 4.2 V8 40V over the 2.8 V6 30V, every day.

The fact the 2.8 in question here has a "T" suffix, meaning turbo makes no difference. Neither the 4.2 or 2.8 left the factory boosted, so the 2.8 single turbo will require some fabwork, as well as a tune to run safely. The same would apply to the 4.2. Given the 4.2 is a much larger displacement to start with, and produces 310hp / 420Nm versus the 2.8 motor's 193hp / 280Nm, I know where I'd rather start from with a boosted motor. It's a no-brainer.

#TeamB5V8SwapPioneer.

[tar]

Different 4.2, and bigger heavier car.

The c5 s6 block is a good swap for what it is. I've been looking for a parts car for awhile now.
But I'm going same kit as urs for my avant. Using my sedan Motor for build.
And will s6 a sedan just for noise and fun project car

[GrapeBandit]

I guess the obvious answer is not always obvious

2.8t> 4.2

2.8t will have more potential
2.8t will be easier to work on
2.8t sounds better

and did I mention 2.8t has a turbo?

[Nollywood]

I guess the obvious answer is not always obvious

2.8t> 4.2

2.8t will have more potential
2.8t will be easier to work on
2.8t sounds better

and did I mention 2.8t has a turbo?

Possibly...but right now, it's all hypothesis, seeing as neither engine is factory boosted. A 2.8T will be a home-brewed turbo conversion, so will a 4.2T. I am looking at the 2.8 as a naturally-aspirated motor, same as the 4.2.

The same single turbo hardware designed around the 2.7 / 2.8 will also bolt up to a 4.2. So similar amount of work for both engines, very different results, with the greater output being achieved from the larger displacement V8.

[GrapeBandit]

Possibly...but right now, it's all hypothesis, seeing as neither engine is factory boosted. A 2.8T will be a home-brewed turbo conversion, so will a 4.2T. I am looking at the 2.8 as a naturally-aspirated motor, same as the 4.2.

The same single turbo hardware designed around the 2.7 / 2.8 will also bolt up to a 4.2. So similar amount of work for both engines, very different results, with the greater output being achieved from the larger displacement V8.

the 2.8 is basically s4 but with better heads, better cams, different pistons, and different ecu.

everything done to the 2.8 will be cheaper than the 4.2 just for the simple facts theres less parts.
does want someone want a nice smooth sounding v6, or a nasty rumble of an unbalanced v8? me personally, I hate the way ALL v8's sound.

how can the same turbo hardware like 3cyl manifold bolt up to a 4cyl v8 head

[Nollywood]

the 2.8 is basically s4 but with better heads, better cams, different pistons, and different ecu.

everything done to the 2.8 will be cheaper than the 4.2 just for the simple facts theres less parts.
does want someone want a nice smooth sounding v6, or a nasty rumble of an unbalanced v8? me personally, I hate the way ALL v8's sound.

how can the same turbo hardware like 3cyl manifold bolt up to a 4cyl v8 head

The 2.8 30V has enough differences to a 2.7T to make it a completely different motor. It shares its basic block, crank and rods, not much else. The same way the 4.2 V8 40V shares the same basics as listed for the 2.8 with the RS6. The V8 40V and RS6 are still chalk and cheese.

The V8 sound is a thing of personal choice. The thread starter has already said he prefers the sound of a V8, so do I...cost considerations were not mentioned.

As for turbo mounting hardware compatibility between the V6 and V8, I think you're getting it wrong. Kaleil specificly mentioned a single turbo set-up in his opening post. The crossover pipe required to mount a single fat snail at the rear of the motor is the same for both V6 and V8.

[GrapeBandit]

and do you think the 2.8 and 4.2 will have the same amout of space between the engine and firewall? that will make things difficult if theres not.
I never saw a single turbo 4.2, let alone a 4.2 stk in a b5. by all means, if op has the time and means to do it, go for the 4.2 stk in a b5, it will be ground breaking and can pave the way for others to follow

[Nollywood]

The V8 is longer than the V6, agreed. But the extra length is at the front of the motor. The rear space is the same. Reverse mount the intake, placing the throttle body at the front, and you're golden.

[GrapeBandit]

The V8 is longer than the V6, agreed. But the extra length is at the front of the motor. The rear space is the same. Reverse mount the intake, placing the throttle body at the front, and you're golden.

if its that easy how come there are no examples of built 4.2 STK cars running around? lol

cuz its pointless, otherwise they would have beeen done before.

[tar]

if its that easy how come there are no examples of built 4.2 STK cars running around? lol

cuz its pointless, otherwise they would have beeen done before.

Oh what

http://midlifecarisis.com/bahnstorme...00bhp-auction/

[Nollywood]

if its that easy how come there are no examples of built 4.2 STK cars running around? lol

cuz its pointless, otherwise they would have beeen done before.

The same reason not many naturally-aspirated V8 swaps in B5's are running around. Time, cost and the knowledge to make it all work. If a swap can't be done like swapping a 1.8T into a V6 chassis, then it stands to reason there will be less.

[GrapeBandit]

Oh what

http://midlifecarisis.com/bahnstorme...00bhp-auction/

thats one car, and you can do 800 on a v6, vr6, i5 or an i4.

The same reason not many naturally-aspirated V8 swaps in B5's are running around. Time, cost and the knowledge to make it all work. If a swap can't be done like swapping a 1.8T into a V6 chassis, then it stands to reason there will be less.

my point exactly, the cost. why pay more when you can have the same outcome for less? only factor of the v8 swap is to say "I have a 4.2". whoopdi fucking doo.

it reminds me of the clowns who want to swap tdi engines into everything, just to save a few pennies on gas and the "I have a tdi swap" factor

if you are going to swap and keep it in the family, at least use one of the better engines. vr6 or i5.
if you are going out of the family, theres only 3 choices: 1jz, 1.5jz, or 2jz

[tar]

thats one car, and you can do 800 on a v6, vr6, i5 or an i4.


my point exactly, the cost. why pay more when you can have the same outcome for less? only factor of the v8 swap is to say "I have a 4.2". whoopdi fucking doo.

it reminds me of the clowns who want to swap tdi engines into everything, just to save a few pennies on gas and the "I have a tdi swap" factor

if you are going to swap and keep it in the family, at least use one of the better engines. vr6 or i5.
if you are going out of the family, theres only 3 choices: 1jz, 1.5jz, or 2jz

You said NO examples I proved it's been done. Ain't no1 said you couldn't do 800 on others just no reason for all this hate on a v8 because you personally don't like how they sound.

Show me a stk 30v 2.8 that makes 800 please!

I would vr6 before v8 or 30v if I wanted to join the hp pissing match so I agree with you there

[GrapeBandit]

if you want to see a 800hp 2.8, there are plenty of examples, they are called s4 STK. the only difference between s4 and 2.8 engines is the pistons, and the 2.8 has better heads and cams. wander off to tbe b5s4 section and you will see them.

. . .and at least we agree on the vr6

[Nollywood]

thats one car, and you can do 800 on a v6, vr6, i5 or an i4.


my point exactly, the cost. why pay more when you can have the same outcome for less? only factor of the v8 swap is to say "I have a 4.2". whoopdi fucking doo.

it reminds me of the clowns who want to swap tdi engines into everything, just to save a few pennies on gas and the "I have a tdi swap" factor

if you are going to swap and keep it in the family, at least use one of the better engines. vr6 or i5.
if you are going out of the family, theres only 3 choices: 1jz, 1.5jz, or 2jz

Man, relax. It's all about choice here.

If you're referring to cost, check how much a VR6T costs. It isn't cheap - a buddy of mine is on one in a 2002 B5.5 VW Passat Syncro. The cost of custom parts required to even bolt in a stock VR6 without boosting it is huge.

Flywheel
Adapter plate
Starter motor
Oil pan
Mounts.
Harness.

None of these parts are off the shelf, and this is only the beginning. You won't be running air either. I wouldn't go this route, I would rather stick with a 2.7T and go single turbo. The main reason the VR6T swap gets done is ease of snail replacement. But, I would not knock those that go the VR6T route - it's guys like this that are pushing boundaries, and developing power solutions for an ageing platform.

The 07K I5 is not a cheap or easy swap either, seeing as you're looking at cost. Give Hank at Iroz Motorsport a call, get a quote, and see if you'll still see it as financially viable.

Let's be real here - 800hp from a V8T is not the same as 800hp from a 1.8T. Very different. Which engine do you reckon would be more stressed at this power level?

The same outcome for less in an I5?? Lol...by the time you get that motor sitting a B5 chassis, and running stock (naturally-aspirated) with a custom harness, you'd have spent well over $11,000. Then boost it - at the 800hp power level you opted for, this will need to be a built motor, big injectors, custom fuel rail, then find a shop that can tune it. Another conservative $15K or more.

The 07K is a great motor, but if cost is your consideration, then you wouldn't even include this in your options.

[Nollywood]

if you want to see a 800hp 2.8, there are plenty of examples, they are called s4 STK. the only difference between s4 and 2.8 engines is the pistons, and the 2.8 has better heads and cams. wander off to tbe b5s4 section and you will see them.

The S4 boys have used 2.8 heads because they flow better than the stock 2.7T items. And gone single turbo to avoid an engine pull each time the snail needs to be replaced.

I am yet to see ANY S4 owner swap in a 2.8 block, with it's 2-bolt crank mains, no provision for the turbo oil feed, and it's cast pistons.

Calling a 2.8 30V an S4 is laughable. An S4 consists of the 2.7T motor, transmission, suspension, brakes, interior and exterior refinements. The 2.8 is very different to a 2.7T. Bolt a 2.8 into a stock S4, running the stock K03's, intake etc, punch the gas pedal to the floor (WOT) and I can guarantee the 2.8 will not make it to a standing quarter before it grenades. This is stock boost, stock (250hp) power. 800hp? We are allowed to dream, some do come true, not this one.

[GrapeBandit]

Bolt a 2.8 into a stock S4, running the stock K03's, intake etc, punch the gas pedal to the floor (WOT) and I can guarantee the 2.8 will not make it to a standing quarter before it grenades. This is stock boost, stock (250hp) power.

I dont have time for a full rebuttal because I have to run, but I will leave you with this.

this statement has to be the biggest joke ever. all the guys with tue SC'd 2.8s are making 250+ with tq kicking in a lower rpm than twins on a 2.7t and I dont see them blowing up.

that statement is so wrong and twisted, im surprised to see that from you considering you are an older member here. to even say something ridiculous like that, you lose all future creditability for that one.

[Nollywood]

I dont have time for a full rebuttal because I have to run, but I will leave you with this.

this statement has to be the biggest joke ever. all the guys with tue SC'd 2.8s are making 250+ with tq kicking in a lower rpm than twins on a 2.7t and I dont see them blowing up.

that statement is so wrong and twisted, im surprised to see that from you considering you are an older member here. to even say something ridiculous like that, you lose all future creditability for that one.

Supercharged 2.8 is very different to a turbocharged 2.7T. 1 bar of boost from a supercharger is not the same as 0.8 bar from a turbo. Apply both to the same engine, and the crank-driven blower will produce less. The supercharger will boost pretty early, but it'll tail off early too.

Supercharged 2.8 30V B5's tend to run very conservative boost, due to the higher CR. To run decent boost, the motor will have to be built. The cost of doing this is not financially viable, as it would cost less to buy a C5 A6 2.7T with a blown tiptronic trans, rape it of the motor, harness, ECU and intercooler etc as a donor. The rest can be parted out.

You haven't seen any supercharged motors grenade? There has been a lot of carnage with supercharged 2.8 30V motors. Most likely as a result of poor tunes, or folk getting carried away, ramping the boost up with catastrophic results. Regardless of the cause, there are tons of failures.

I see nothing ridiculous about the points I've raised. I'm more surprised you're getting unduly defensive over what is meant to be a fun debate. What could be deemed ridiculous is us forging ahead, and pouring money into 16-year-old cars. It's a choice thing!

[Bordom]

This thread is Lols.

V8 all the way. Even my S4 will be getting one in the next few years in NA guise first and then boosted. Leaning heavily towards a remote turbo but I'm not opposed to modifying the false firewall

Everything graciously mispelled by Android

[all_motor_A4]

I had a similar thread up for my 01 2.8, only I was considering running a 2.7t 01e platform. Nollywood basically talked me off the ledge there, and I've begun looking into the 40v swap route as I personally love NA engines and the sound of a V8. My .02's on this, go the V8 route. There's something to be said for moderate, reliable power!

[kaleil]

So new question. I was thinking about doing the six speed swap but out of curiosity I wanted to know are there many 4.2 audis that come with 5 speed or are they all automatic?

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[Nollywood]

So new question. I was thinking about doing the six speed swap but out of curiosity I wanted to know are there many 4.2 audis that come with 5 speed or are they all automatic?

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The only Audi models with factory V8 engines, paired to 5-speed manual gearboxes (016) were the D11 3.6 V8's. 4.2 D11 models were either 6-speed manual (01E) or tip / auto.

All other subsequent Audi models with V8 motors and manual gearboxes are 6-speed. No 5-speed manual gearboxes were bolted behind V8 engines post-1993.

[kaleil]

The only Audi models with factory V8 engines, paired to 5-speed manual gearboxes (016) were the D1 3.6 V8's. 4.2 D1 models were either 6-speed manual (01E) or tip / auto.

All other subsequent Audi models with V8 motors and manual gearboxes are 6-speed. No 5-speed manual gearboxes were bolted behind V8 engines post-1993.

Have you ever played with any of the 3.6 V8 engines? I would assume they would be pretty hard to find?

[Nollywood]

Have you ever played with any of the 3.6 V8 engines? I would assume they would be pretty hard to find?

I haven't had anything to do with the 3.6 (PT) V8 motors. There is very little need to, seeing as it makes only 250hp, and the 4.2 models are easier to find.

In the early days, I would have considered a 3.6 V8 ONLY if I wanted to boost it. The 81mm bore means OEM Audi S2 / RS2 pistons can be used. These days, RS6 pistons will do the job, which is the route I'm taking with my S8 32V motor.

[kaleil]

I haven't had anything to do with the 3.6 (PT) V8 motors. There is very little need to, seeing as it makes only 250hp, and the 4.2 models are easier to find.

In the early days, I would have considered a 3.6 V8 ONLY if I wanted to boost it. The 81mm bore means OEM Audi S2 / RS2 pistons can be used. These days, RS6 pistons will do the job, which is the route I'm taking with my S8 32V motor.

Is there much space to boost the 32v? Custom piping?

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[Nollywood]

Is there much space to boost the 32v? Custom piping?

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You DID mention a 2.8T?

[kaleil]

You DID mention a 2.8T?

Yes are they same size when it comes to space between a firewall though?

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[Nollywood]

Yes are they same size when it comes to space between a firewall though?

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With the intake reversed on the engine, placing the throttle body at the front, yes.

[kaleil]

With the intake reversed on the engine, placing the throttle body at the front, yes.

That would be amazing to see let me know if you post pics or have some up already!

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[Nollywood]

That would be amazing to see let me know if you post pics or have some up already!

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No pictures, as my S8 motor is in bits at a shop, and I'm still finishing off my street car.

[kaleil]

Got ya

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