Meth for cooling ONLY

[Hofahome]

Who has done this and what are your thoughts? Any install guides? (The one I saw had broken links to pics)
I was thinking about running the killer chiller or upgraded HE, however I may do a very mild meth setup along with my upcoming e85 tune. One reason is that methanol has the benefit of cooling plus it acts like an oxygenated fuel itself, which I think can only help here at altitude. Plus it can clean the valves. Yes I get the risks if the pump fails, however I am not going to tune for it so I think pump failure would be a non-issue. The only thing I am concerned about is hydrolock, but again I would be conservative with regards to flow/nozzles. What concentration would you guys recommend?
Personally, I bet a meth setup pre-blower combined with upgraded HE or killer chiller would be the tits.

[jimrobbington]

I'm all for it! Can we do a straight water injection like the new MB engines?

[xpoweruk]

I though the Meth removed the protective coating (Teflon?)on the blower if used pre-blower

[Hofahome]

I though the Meth removed the protective coating (Teflon?)on the blower if used pre-blower

From what I have read, that was with older eaton superchargers. Should no longer be an issue.
Since Snow Performance is in CO Springs I might head down there sometime in the spring.

[BlownOne]

80/20 mix of meth/water, the Teflon coating doesn't affect anything performance/longevity wise, pre blower doesn't cool as well as directly injecting into the plenum, only inject straight water if you want a hydro locked engine, you can also get a different nozzle and inject e85 alternatively. Search sround on the ctsV forums...there's plenty of info on it.

Will

[Jones2012s4]

80/20 mix of meth/water, the Teflon coating doesn't affect anything performance/longevity wise, pre blower doesn't cool as well as directly injecting into the plenum, only inject straight water if you want a hydro locked engine, you can also get a different nozzle and inject e85 alternatively. Search sround on the ctsV forums...there's plenty of info on it.

Will

Ughhhh

You will not get a hydro locked engine from spraying 100% water if your nozzles and psi are setup properly. Unless you are managing you get 250 mls of water into the cylinder on each compression.

Also the temp sensors used by the ecu for fuel and timing calculations are in the blower housing above the intake runners (we don't have a plenum). So while a direct port solution would provide greatly lowered exhaust temps and intake temps into the cylinder, the ECU won't see the lowered temps.

Will, I understand you are trying to help but that is a lot of misinformation. About the only thing right is the 80/20 mixture which for INTAKE COOLING is a great mixture.

I have been running W/M on THIS platform for 3 years almost. I have tested every mix, and logged them all. I never hydro locked my motor.

I managed the lowest cylinder and exhaust gas temps with 100% water.
I managed lowest intake temps with 100% meth.

With all water the AFR went leaner, and with 100% methanol it went rich. I typically use 50/50 all the time. The ECU on this car is so dynamic that it can adjust to the mixture you are injecting. Once you find a mixture however, stick with it. If you change the mixture the car will act a little funky until it adapts to the new cocktail being injected into it.

Research heat of vaporization properties and understand OUR platforms needs.

[jimrobbington]

From what I have read, that was with older eaton superchargers. Should no longer be an issue.
Since Snow Performance is in CO Springs I might head down there sometime in the spring.

That's awesome, I didn't know they were there.

Ughhhh

You will not get a hydro locked engine from spraying 100% water if your nozzles and psi are setup properly. Unless you are managing you get 250 mls of water into the cylinder on each compression.

Also the temp sensors used by the ecu for fuel and timing calculations are in the blower housing above the intake runners (we don't have a plenum). So while a direct port solution would provide greatly lowered exhaust temps and intake temps into the cylinder, the ECU won't see the lowered temps.

Will, I understand you are trying to help but that is a lot of misinformation. About the only thing right is the 80/20 mixture which for INTAKE COOLING is a great mixture.

I have been running W/M on THIS platform for 3 years almost. I have tested every mix, and logged them all. I never hydro locked my motor.

I managed the lowest cylinder and exhaust gas temps with 100% water.
I managed lowest intake temps with 100% meth.

With all water the AFR went leaner, and with 100% methanol it went rich. I typically use 50/50 all the time. The ECU on this car is so dynamic that it can adjust to the mixture you are injecting. Once you find a mixture however, stick with it. If you change the mixture the car will act a little funky until it adapts to the new cocktail being injected into it.

Research heat of vaporization properties and understand OUR platforms needs.

Good fucking shit right there

[joediesel]

I have been running W/M on THIS platform for 3 years almost. I have tested every mix, and logged them all. I never hydro locked my motor.

More info on your setup? Pump and nozzles? Boost controlled?

[Jay@JXB]

More info on your setup? Pump and nozzles? Boost controlled?

I 2nd this. I would love to know how to do this on THIS platform (don't know shit about W/M as I'm a noob still).

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

[lowjonathan]

Ughhhh

You will not get a hydro locked engine from spraying 100% water if your nozzles and psi are setup properly. Unless you are managing you get 250 mls of water into the cylinder on each compression.

Also the temp sensors used by the ecu for fuel and timing calculations are in the blower housing above the intake runners (we don't have a plenum). So while a direct port solution would provide greatly lowered exhaust temps and intake temps into the cylinder, the ECU won't see the lowered temps.

Will, I understand you are trying to help but that is a lot of misinformation. About the only thing right is the 80/20 mixture which for INTAKE COOLING is a great mixture.

I have been running W/M on THIS platform for 3 years almost. I have tested every mix, and logged them all. I never hydro locked my motor.

I managed the lowest cylinder and exhaust gas temps with 100% water.
I managed lowest intake temps with 100% meth.

With all water the AFR went leaner, and with 100% methanol it went rich. I typically use 50/50 all the time. The ECU on this car is so dynamic that it can adjust to the mixture you are injecting. Once you find a mixture however, stick with it. If you change the mixture the car will act a little funky until it adapts to the new cocktail being injected into it.

Research heat of vaporization properties and understand OUR platforms needs.

+1 sub

coz thinking to hook up w/m injector at the intake pipe to cool the air

[Hofahome]

I have been running W/M on THIS platform for 3 years almost. I have tested every mix, and logged them all. I never hydro locked my motor.

I managed the lowest cylinder and exhaust gas temps with 100% water.
I managed lowest intake temps with 100% meth.

Thank you for the input. Please give more info if you can. Not saying you are wrong (I am new to WM), but I would expect that the meth would erroneously look like it is lowering the IATs much more because the vaporization effect...

[Hofahome]

FYI, some good initial reading about WM

http://rhwracing.com/ins-and-outs-of...nol-injection/

[Jones2012s4]

Thank you for the input. Please give more info if you can. Not saying you are wrong (I am new to WM), but I would expect that the meth would erroneously look like it is lowering the IATs much more because the vaporization effect...

Not sure what you mean by the methanol would erroneously look like it is lowering IATs?

In a perfect situation I agree that a direct port setup AFTER the air is compressed in the charger and passes through the inter-coolers(in the charger housing), would be the best time to inject. You can see however, our temp sensors are in the housing just under where the inter-cooler block sits, one sensor in each bank.

Alky control is the company they do a lot of work for the LSX guys and I read great things about the company on the LSX forums. I worked with the owner(Julio) to design a kit for our platform(hose length, nozzle size based on power and boost, brass and SS lines, etc...). The tank itself is not from Alky Control however, it is from Alcohol Injection Systems


Here is a video of when I was in the middle of installing it. I have since removed the Velcro blocks and secured the tank with aluminum brackets into the trunk floor.

[s4matty]

Not sure what you mean by the methanol would erroneously look like it is lowering IATs?

In a perfect situation I agree that a direct port setup AFTER the air is compressed in the charger and passes through the inter-coolers(in the charger housing), would be the best time to inject. You can see however, our temp sensors are in the housing just under where the inter-cooler block sits, one sensor in each bank.

Alky control is the company they do a lot of work for the LSX guys and I read great things about the company on the LSX forums. I worked with the owner(Julio) to design a kit for our platform(hose length, nozzle size based on power and boost, brass and SS lines, etc...). The tank itself is not from Alky Control however, it is from Alcohol Injection Systems


Here is a video of when I was in the middle of installing it.

Nice install job!

[SpltsecondS4]

Not sure what you mean by the methanol would erroneously look like it is lowering IATs?

In a perfect situation I agree that a direct port setup AFTER the air is compressed in the charger and passes through the inter-coolers(in the charger housing), would be the best time to inject. You can see however, our temp sensors are in the housing just under where the inter-cooler block sits, one sensor in each bank.

Alky control is the company they do a lot of work for the LSX guys and I read great things about the company on the LSX forums. I worked with the owner(Julio) to design a kit for our platform(hose length, nozzle size based on power and boost, brass and SS lines, etc...). The tank itself is not from Alky Control however, it is from Alcohol Injection Systems


Here is a video of when I was in the middle of installing it. I have since removed the Velcro blocks and secured the tank with aluminum brackets into the trunk floor.

This is an interesting setup you have here. I've not considered putting meth in my S4, but in all my Ms I use it as an additional safety. The one question id have for you is...what prompted you to place the tank so far from the point of injection? I've always typically tried to keep that distance as small as possible and find a spot in the engine bay.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. for reference...I've typically forgone a washer reservoir and converted that tank or replaced in the same location with a meth reservoir.

[infinkc]

This is an interesting setup you have here. I've not considered putting meth in my S4, but in all my Ms I use it as an additional safety. The one question id have for you is...what prompted you to place the tank so far from the point of injection? I've always typically tried to keep that distance as small as possible and find a spot in the engine bay.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. for reference...I've typically forgone a washer reservoir and convoerted that tank or replaced in the same location with a meth reservoir.

I have my tank in the trunk also, my last cars with meth I have had th trunk tank also. As long as there is fluid the system won't starve itself. My pump is under the tank so it's a push fill system, typically when you use the windshield res the pump is above and your pulling fluid to the pump instead which can lead to issues I've read.

[Lamprey]

Who has done this and what are your thoughts? Any install guides? (The one I saw had broken links to pics)
I was thinking about running the killer chiller or upgraded HE, however I may do a very mild meth setup along with my upcoming e85 tune. One reason is that methanol has the benefit of cooling plus it acts like an oxygenated fuel itself, which I think can only help here at altitude. Plus it can clean the valves. Yes I get the risks if the pump fails, however I am not going to tune for it so I think pump failure would be a non-issue. The only thing I am concerned about is hydrolock, but again I would be conservative with regards to flow/nozzles. What concentration would you guys recommend?
Personally, I bet a meth setup pre-blower combined with upgraded HE or killer chiller would be the tits.

I'm not sure of your goals, but if you aren't going to tune for water/meth then why not just go with an aftermarket cooler? Those seems to do just fine and you don't have to worry about running out/refilling your water/meth tank.

[Hofahome]

I'm not sure of your goals, but if you aren't going to tune for water/meth then why not just go with an aftermarket cooler? Those seems to do just fine and you don't have to worry about running out/refilling your water/meth tank.

Ya I am leaning more this way now. After reading up on meth with e85, the octane benefits are negated and some even report loss of power. It would still cool the charge, but would be too much of a pain in the butt to be worth it vs larger HE.

[Jones2012s4]

This is an interesting setup you have here. I've not considered putting meth in my S4, but in all my Ms I use it as an additional safety. The one question id have for you is...what prompted you to place the tank so far from the point of injection? I've always typically tried to keep that distance as small as possible and find a spot in the engine bay.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. for reference...I've typically forgone a washer reservoir and converted that tank or replaced in the same location with a meth reservoir.

Easy access, shelter from elements, and I wanted a 3 gallon tank.

There is no negatives from having the tank mounted so far, the is a prime button on the controller if you are really worried about there being no fluid in the lines. The pump turns on at 5 psi which is any minor throttle input due to dual pulleys and fast building boost of these motors. There will NEVER be enough load, temp, or any other stress on this motor to even worry about there not being fluid sprayed for that initial throttle tip in.