Methonal injection nozzle placement

[Osher67]

Hello az,

I'm in the middle of getting my aem methonal kit put in for my car.
I don't have plans to tune it right away I'm on unitronic stage II+ (k04-15/tt injectors)
Standard for the tune.

I know this topic has a lot of stuff on it but I've searched a good amount for few days here and I mean good amount.

My question is how much of a differnce dose it make, the nozzle being closer to the throultle body?
I see people saying the 4-8" max or 5-10" max

It seams pretty specific with people arugeing that haveing it too far away will not contribute to octane boost and too close and it won't help with IAT's?

I have a bung welded on my intercooler pipe for it about 10" from where the coupler touches the throultle body




After seaching/ reading kind of makes me want to grab another bung ,plug old one and make new one little closer

[AudiA4_20T]

10" is fine. Either run that or get the dual nozzle system.

[diagnosticator]

Best setup is with a nozzle at each cylinder intake port runner. Other placements will have variable distribution depending on throttle opening, intake absolute pressure, etc. Sending methanol through the TB will be problematic long term, if the throttle shaft is not sealed.

[Osher67]

Best setup is with a nozzle at each cylinder intake port runner. Other placements will have variable distribution depending on throttle opening, intake absolute pressure, etc. Sending methanol through the TB will be problematic long term, if the throttle shaft is not sealed.

Thanks for reply
I wouldn't be against running a nozzle at each runner just seams pricey buying 3 other nozzles unless there's cheeper ones then I saw but the aem ones are kinda expensive

But my thinking doing pre throultle body was that the iat sensor would catch the changes and adjust timing some to Accommodate For it.

[Osher67]

10" is fine. Either run that or get the dual nozzle system.

Didn't really think about dual.
Would it be worth the extra effort you think?

[AudiA4_20T]

Didn't really think about dual.
Would it be worth the extra effort you think?

Not initially. Just run what you have, 10" off the TB is fine.

[fyremanpat]

I have a TB spacer that mine is mounted to.

http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php...x&cPath=68_261

[SleeperAvant]

I have a TB spacer that mine is mounted to.

http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php...x&cPath=68_261

Same here, after injecting 8-10" before the throttle body I realized it kills the OEM throttle butterflies quite quickly.

[Audi body]

[IMG][/IMG] I've had no problems

[Osher67]

Same here, after injecting 8-10" before the throttle body I realized it kills the OEM throttle butterflies quite quickly.

I was thinking about this was cerious about what the seals looked like just regular o rings?

Is there a differnce with the purple ac line o rings, and regular ones ?

[Osher67]

[IMG][/IMG] I've had no problems

Nice what nozzles are thoes?
How long have you been running them?

And that mani 0.0

[diagnosticator]

Thanks for reply
I wouldn't be against running a nozzle at each runner just seams pricey buying 3 other nozzles unless there's cheeper ones then I saw but the aem ones are kinda expensive

But my thinking doing pre throultle body was that the iat sensor would catch the changes and adjust timing some to Accommodate For it.

There are no sensors in the throttle body that will significantly vary spark timing or boost. The intake air temp sensor will cause the timing and boost to be reduced if the IAT is to high, but otherwise won't change those two parameters with lower temp.

[Audi body]

It's around 550ml snow performance. Running with a 2.0 stroker and gt3076 turbo

[diagnosticator]

Thanks for reply
I wouldn't be against running a nozzle at each runner just seams pricey buying 3 other nozzles unless there's cheeper ones then I saw but the aem ones are kinda expensive

But my thinking doing pre throultle body was that the iat sensor would catch the changes and adjust timing some to Accommodate For it.

The technical benefits of a meth injector at the inlet of each intake port runner, justify the higher cost, IMO.

The intake manifolds used with the 1.8T are not designed for any liquid/vapor content in the air intake flow stream. This results in uneven distribution of liquid/vapor between cylinders when the water/meth is injected before or just after the throttle body. The variable distribution of water/meth upsets fuel mixture consistency between cylinders, causes variable knock inhibition with differences of dynamic ignition timing between cylinders, both causing uneven torque output per cylinder and is very difficult to tune compared to individual injectors evenly injecting water/meth equally to all the cylinders.

The physics that are involved here are practically the same as the differences between the obsolete single point throttle body fuel injection compared to a fuel injector for each cylinder now used universally.

[Osher67]

The technical benefits of a meth injector at the inlet of each intake port runner, justify the higher cost, IMO.

The intake manifolds used with the 1.8T are not designed for any liquid/vapor content in the air intake flow stream. This results in uneven distribution of liquid/vapor between cylinders when the water/meth is injected before or just after the throttle body. The variable distribution of water/meth upsets fuel mixture consistency between cylinders, causes variable knock inhibition with differences of dynamic ignition timing between cylinders, both causing uneven torque output per cylinder and is very difficult to tune compared to individual injectors evenly injecting water/meth equally to all the cylinders.

The physics that are involved here are practically the same as the differences between the obsolete single point throttle body fuel injection compared to a fuel injector for each cylinder now used universally.

I've never heard of people haveing too much issues without direct injection.
I can see it maybe affecting it in much higher numbers but I'm Unitronic stage II+

What do most people hook boost safe up to? (Blue wire)
I was looking into seeing if should be hooked to the n75 not to sure though?

[diagnosticator]

I was thinking about this was cerious about what the seals looked like just regular o rings?

Is there a differnce with the purple ac line o rings, and regular ones ?

Purple O rings are made from an elastomer that resists break down by refrigerant.

Having the throttle body properly fitted with effective seals is not cheap. Machining needs to be done to fit the seals at the bore around the throttle shaft on both side of the butterfly. Only with proper seals fitted on the throttle shaft can meth be sent through the throttle body.

While single point meth injection "works", only a nozzle at each intake port runner inlet in the manifold, is capable of evenly distributing methanol to all the cylinders regardless of the variable turbulence of the air flow through the manifold at different throttle valve opening angles.

[userbob0001]

Injecting at each runner is ideal for all the reasons discussed so far, but without data I'd have to speculate that anything more involved than injecting into a spacer between the TB and the manifold is going to see rapidly diminishing returns, at least per dollar. I don't have the data on hand, so this is speculation too, but I believe I've read about a number of people seeing positive results injecting into a spacer.