2001 2.8 Tiptronic to 2.7 01E Swap

[all_motor_A4]

Hey everyone,

So I've searched around on this forum and a few others and got some basic info, but I'm hoping someone can shed some light on more specific questions I have regarding a 2.8 Tiptronic swap to a 2.7t 01E.

First and foremost, there's a few reasons I'm looking to swap instead of "just buying an S4". The car has sentimental value to me, and insurance on an S4 for me is absolutely absurd. My A4 is in incredible shape and I can't get a decent S4 for anywhere close to the cost of this swap. Plus I just love sleepers and have the old school hot rodding mentality.

I've been working on piecing together some components, but now I'm looking at just buying a donor car and parting the rest. But I have a few questions regarding what I'll actually need regardless of which way I go, since I'd be trying to do this as cost effectively as possible.

I know I'll need the ECU and all accompanying wiring, the gauge cluster, pedal assembly, master and slave, and the entirety of the drivetrain. Since I have a 2001 2.8 A4, the subframes should make this just about plug and play from other threads I have read. My question is though, will I need to change out my axles and suspension as well? And I assume the rear diff? If everything needs to be changed I'll just swap subframes with an S4 donor car and call it a day, but that is the more expensive option. If someone could aid me in building a comprehensive list of things I'll need it would be appreciated, as the car is my daily driver I can't have too many surprise delays in waiting for parts I've forgotten.

Any input on this project is appreciated! It's a large labor of love for an old A4, but it's something I've wanted to do since I purchased the car 7 years ago

[RagtagXMASTER]

I have a 1.8t similar to your story and sentimental value aspect. Good luck man. Sorry im not helpful on this but id like to do the same swap on my 01 1.8t auto. Ive pretty much done an s4 conversion to it anyways


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[all_motor_A4]

I've actually stumbled across a few threads for 1.8t Tip to 2.7t Manual conversions! It's nice knowing there are other people as attached to their cars as I am

[RagtagXMASTER]

Yup brought it back to life with two major accidents almost totalling it. 2 head rebuilds and two turbo replacements. Over the past 6 years i owned it. Granted i know how to work on it i have all the tools and i do it all myself. If i had to really pay to fix it. It would have been sold or junked.


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[Cgoon009]

Hey everyone,

So I've searched around on this forum and a few others and got some basic info, but I'm hoping someone can shed some light on more specific questions I have regarding a 2.8 Tiptronic swap to a 2.7t 01E.

First and foremost, there's a few reasons I'm looking to swap instead of "just buying an S4". The car has sentimental value to me, and insurance on an S4 for me is absolutely absurd. My A4 is in incredible shape and I can't get a decent S4 for anywhere close to the cost of this swap. Plus I just love sleepers and have the old school hot rodding mentality.

I've been working on piecing together some components, but now I'm looking at just buying a donor car and parting the rest. But I have a few questions regarding what I'll actually need regardless of which way I go, since I'd be trying to do this as cost effectively as possible.

I know I'll need the ECU and all accompanying wiring, the gauge cluster, pedal assembly, master and slave, and the entirety of the drivetrain. Since I have a 2001 2.8 A4, the subframes should make this just about plug and play from other threads I have read. My question is though, will I need to change out my axles and suspension as well? And I assume the rear diff? If everything needs to be changed I'll just swap subframes with an S4 donor car and call it a day, but that is the more expensive option. If someone could aid me in building a comprehensive list of things I'll need it would be appreciated, as the car is my daily driver I can't have too many surprise delays in waiting for parts I've forgotten.

Any input on this project is appreciated! It's a large labor of love for an old A4, but it's something I've wanted to do since I purchased the car 7 years ago

You will need the S4 rear diff, drive shaft and obviously the trans and motor. You will will also need the core support and brackets for the inter coolers. You will also need the ECU and engine harness. Your front axles should be compatible, but I would say swap them for S4 ones and also swap over the knuckles. Run the bigger brakes, etc. For the rears, you can swap over the axles and spindles, hubs etc, or you can change the axle flange on the S4 diff to your 2.8 flange. They are press fit iirc. The worst part about this swap is the wire harness, i'm still working on it. Look at the S4 wiki page for auto to manual swap, it details the wiring needed for MT. As for the rest of the harness, I haven't gotten that far yet, so no idea what other bugs I will run into.

[all_motor_A4]

RagTag- Jesus, 2 major accidents? Glad to hear you're alright and the cars still going! I hear you on the costs of it all, I'm blessed with a big shop (and a lift) and couldn't imagine what I would have spent not having access to all of that. I only had one bad accident while trying to be the next McRae in my bone stock 2.8 Tiptronic . But hey if you love the car then you stick by it like it's stuck by you!

Cgoon- You're doing the swap as well? Sweet! Thanks for all the information, it definitely sounds like a donor car will be the way to forward. I hadn't even taken the core support and brackets into account, I assumed all that was identical from one to the next (we all know what they say about assumptions). I'm thinking *hopefully* I can leave a large part of my original harness intact since I'm already running an me7 ECU, and from my understanding everything in the body harnesses are relatively the same. With any luck it'll be mostly things forward of the ECU that need splicing in.

I plan to tackle this in the next coming weeks when I can blow my tax return on a decent donor I've been eyeing at a salvage yard. Since it sounds like you'll be tackling something similar I'll try to give you any updates in return! thanks again.

[AudiB5owner]

I completely understand OP. I have a fronttrack auto 1.8T but I still love the car and wouldn't want another one. I hope you find success with the swap! Also maybe consider a 1.8T manual swap. Most of my S4 buddies are jealous of how much easier the 1.8T is to work on.

[Nollywood]

Good to see another motor and trans swap in the "gathering" stage. Definitely grab a complete donor car if you can, you may also find it cheaper to pick up a C5 A6 2.7T manual as your donor.

[Wrath And Tears]

Most people swap a 4.2 over the 2.7T, mostly due to reliability and ease of working on. Most jobs on the 2.7T start with "remove engine". That being said, have you considered building the 2.8 throwing a turbo / supercharger on it? Also if you are dead set on the 2.7T you should look into the single turbo builds, they look pretty sweet.

[walky_talky20]

1 - You will need the axles. Tiptronic axles are short, stubby things with tripod joints and they will not bolt to the 01E. These will need to be B5 S4 axles (C5 A6 axles will be too long, I'm pretty certain).
2 - You do not need to swap suspension or front uprights. Your 2.8 outer joints are the 82mm "S4 size", so the B5 S4 axles will slide right in.
3 - You will need the S4 uprights if you want to utilize the S4 brakes. C5 A6 uprights/brakes should also work fine, if that's the donor.
4 - You do NOT need the S4 rear differential. Your tiptronic rear differential is 4:11 final drive, which is the same as the B5 S4 (or C5 A6) 01E 6-speed. Your tiptronic rear differential is probably in better shape (less shock loads from launches, gear changes, etc).
5 - Yes, there is a difference in the rear differential - the output flanges are bigger on the S4. 100mm vs 108mm, I believe. Doesn't matter. Both are the same ratio and driveshaft flange size. Just leave it alone.
6 - You will need a B5 S4 01E driveshaft. A C5 A6 driveshaft won't work because it is too long.

Is that comprehensive enough? ;) j/k. Keep the questions coming.

Please note: I've not done a 2.8 Tip to 2.7T 01E swap. So make sure to confirm with another fellow on any of the above details before planning on things.

[all_motor_A4]

AudiB5Owner- Thanks! I have definitely thought about a 1.8t, but the hipster that's trapped in me wants to do something a little off the wall. Plus since I don't want necessarily want to go radical to make in the ~300hp range, I feel a larger displacement engine is a better starting point. but you bring up such a good point with ease of maintenance, definitely something to consider!

Nollywood- Thank you! I've looked at the A6 2.7t's but my experience with them is limited. I know the core support will be different, but does that really matter? I assume my A4 core support will have the holes for everything and I'll just need intercooler brackets, and I assume everything else is the same from A6 to A4. By the way, i LOVE that Pelican Blue. Wow. Beautiful ride!

Wrath- Really? I've only seen a couple 4.2 builds and they've all been pretty radical in the fabrication department (which isn't really one of my strong suits ). It isn't that I'm dead set on a 2.7t, I just think it would be the best balance of fuel efficiency, power, good noises, and ease of swap. But you're absolutely right, I would consider a single turbo setup and a fmic just to save space in the bay, as you pointed out the first step in 2.7t maintenance is usually "remove the engine" so freeing up as much space as possible might help in that department. And not to mention the huge spool noises of a good single setup!! As for the supercharger, I was minutes away from buying a PES G2 kit for $1k with no tune, but after spending some time over on scaudi, apparently the tuning is next to impossible to achieve reliability with. It was a huge let down, but it did get me started on this whole 2.7t mini sleeper build

Walky- Plenty comprehensive Thanks a ton for that list, it gives me something to fact check and really get moving with!! I've owned the car from 50k miles and knew the original owner, 0 launches on it and religiously maintained, no metal flakes in anything ever. I'm almost certain you're correct that it's a 4.11 rear, so as long as that will mate up to the S4 driveshaft I'll be leaving the rear be! also, factory laser red? Very nice

You're all bringing up good points guys, I really appreciate the feedback!

[Wrath And Tears]

You could be totally right about the 4.2 needing more fab work. I've really only seen a lot of talk about what part to use for accessories, for example reusing the V6 A/C compressor to help with room and so on. I guess it all depends what engine code is being used, some may need fab work and other not.

I truly don't know too much about the whole deal, I just enjoy reading about and seeing others who do the swaps.

[Nollywood]

4.2 V8 40V from C5 A6 / S6 = easier swap, including harness integration with B5 ME7>. Motor mounts & flywheel are simple bolt-ons.
4.2 V8 32V from D2 A8 / S8 = complex swap, including harness integration with B5 ME5. Motor mounts are custom, flywheel new or used Euro S8 10-bolt unit.

In my opinion, the V8 is a nicer drive than the V6BiT.

[Cgoon009]

1 - You will need the axles. Tiptronic axles are short, stubby things with tripod joints and they will not bolt to the 01E. These will need to be B5 S4 axles (C5 A6 axles will be too long, I'm pretty certain).
2 - You do not need to swap suspension or front uprights. Your 2.8 outer joints are the 82mm "S4 size", so the B5 S4 axles will slide right in.
3 - You will need the S4 uprights if you want to utilize the S4 brakes. C5 A6 uprights/brakes should also work fine, if that's the donor.
4 - You do NOT need the S4 rear differential. Your tiptronic rear differential is 4:11 final drive, which is the same as the B5 S4 (or C5 A6) 01E 6-speed. Your tiptronic rear differential is probably in better shape (less shock loads from launches, gear changes, etc).
5 - Yes, there is a difference in the rear differential - the output flanges are bigger on the S4. 100mm vs 108mm, I believe. Doesn't matter. Both are the same ratio and driveshaft flange size. Just leave it alone.
6 - You will need a B5 S4 01E driveshaft. A C5 A6 driveshaft won't work because it is too long.

Is that comprehensive enough? ;) j/k. Keep the questions coming.

Please note: I've not done a 2.8 Tip to 2.7T 01E swap. So make sure to confirm with another fellow on any of the above details before planning on things.

Just so I understand this bit better, you are saying that the 8mm difference is not a problem? So i could bolt my A4 2.8 rear axles up the S4 diff and not have to worry about it? Because I would like to do that instead of changing out the flanges.

[Nollywood]

Just so I understand this bit better, you are saying that the 8mm difference is not a problem? So i could bolt my A4 2.8 rear axles up the S4 diff and not have to worry about it? Because I would like to do that instead of changing out the flanges.

The 108mm flanges need to be swapped for 100mm ones to match your 2.8 axles. Or you get B5 S4 rear axles to run at the rear. Mix and match between 100 and 108mm components is NOT possible.

[Cgoon009]

The 108mm flanges need to be swapped for 100mm ones to match your 2.8 axles. Or you get B5 S4 rear axles to run at the rear. Mix and match between 100 and 108mm components is NOT possible.

Ok thanks for clearing that up. That's what I thought but I wanted to check before swapping or shelling out cash for rear axles. Given the cost of rear axles it seems I will have to swap. I wish I could use the rear diff, but I'm afraid it's toast.

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[walky_talky20]

What I was saying is that while the 108's are bigger (8mm bigger to be exact!), it is not a necessary upgrade at all. It doesn't matter. The 100's work just fine for all the big turbo guys, the 4.2 swap guys, and all the other guys (and girls), too. Nobody is blowing up 100mm rear inner axle joints because they "should have known better" and didn't install the 108mm equipment. Literally nobody.

The S4 rear diff is just an A4 Tiptronic diff with 108mm flanges installed. It is not unique. It is not special. One could install 100mm flanges harvested from an A4 diff onto an S4 diff in order to utilize the more common A4 axles. One could harvest an A4 Tiptronic rear diff to repair their B5 S4, by simply swapping on the larger flanges from their broken diff.

[mignogna114]

We are in the process of swapping am 01E into our 2.8 endurance race car, we have gone through 2 01A's in two seasons of racing it. The 01E is a lot stronger, the center diff is much better as that was the issue on the last 01A we killed. The trans went in without the spacer and seems to bolt up fine, we kept the flywheel and clutch used previous. Not to many people have completed this swap!

[all_motor_A4]

Nolly- Is the 40v really that easy of a swap? I've looked a couple of threads because a V8 was my first thought- I've always wanted a B7 S4 but I love the look of the B5 more, so having my V8 noise and my favorite body style would just be having my cake and eating it too. But the threads I've seen seem to be extremely involved. It should also be noted that I'm not dead set on manual either! I want a conservative ~300hp to scoot around with, and being that this is my daily and I already have 2 manual toys, I certainly don't need it. If the V8 really is as simple as motor mounts and mating up, I'd be more inclined to put my donor car on ice and look for a C5 A6 4.2!

cGoon- I was a little confused on that as well, but thanks Nolly and Walky_Talky for clearing it up even further!

Mignona- 2.8 endurance car? Awesome!! I'd love to see pics if you have a photobucket or anything! It's definitely daunting, but I really want to put the effort in that this car deserves