2.0t gas in the oil

[aMBIENTt3RROR]

I have a 2008 A4 with a 2.0t and have noticed a lot of gas in my oil. When I first noticed it it didn't seem that bad, but I decided to look into why it was happening. I only have a VW dealership in my town so I took my car there to ask them what this was all about. I was told the PCV was a common issue and possibly had a recall. They directed me to an Audi dealership about 75 miles away, which I ended up taking the car to, to get the PCV and fuel pressure sensor replaced with the update/recall. After I brought my car back home I decided to change my oil. The oil seemed very unusual and after I drained the oil I noticed about 8 quarts of oil/gas came out. Everyone I had talked to said that my issue is more than likely the PCV and to just change the oil and keep an eye on it. I changed the oil and have driven it maybe about 250 miles and already the dipstick is reading that there is a quart more fluid since I filled the oil. My check engine light was showing, P0036 HO2S heater control circuit(bank 1 sensor 2), P0089 suction control valve stuck, P0301 cylinder 1 misfire detected, P2293 fuel pressure regular 2 performance pending. It was showing all of these codes before I got the PCV and fuel pressure sensor replaced. I haven't scanned it since. I have been told that it is common to get fuel past the cylinder rings, but my concern is something has to be wrong with this much fuel in the oil. Before this issue started I started having a rough idle at cold start. The rough idle doesn't stop when the engine gets up to temp, but it stops after the car has ran for about 1-2 minutes, then it will get up to temp a few minutes after that. Sometimes it will backfire while driving after I let off the throttle, but that is the only time it backfires. Recently when I start the car It wont hold an idle unless i keep my foot on the throttle and try to average 2,000 rpms(which is very difficult to do because it will get to the point it tries to die, then it will rev up to about 3,000 rpms and back and forth). After managing the throttle for a couple minutes it becomes less severe and will idle rough for a couple minutes then it's fine and can be driven. However I don't want to drive it at all until i get this issue resolved. Any help is appreciated, Thanks.

[Older_not_Wiser]

There is no way for that much fuel to get past your rings. I suspect your HPFP is the problem (leaking past the seals). Have u checked your Cam Follower and HPFP?

[aMBIENTt3RROR]

The cam follower and high pressure fuel pump were bolt replaced about 7,000 miles ago by the previous owner. I will go take them off and check the seals. Is there any possibility that a ring could go bad and cause this much fuel to enter the oil? Or would I be showing other symptoms if that was happening? I guess I'm just worried that I will have to do work to fix the rings.

[b7_Andy]

I've never heard of fuel getting into oil. Are you sure that it's fuel and not coolant in the oil. Sometimee if the oil cooler goes bad you can get coolant in the oil but no oil in the coolant (because the cooling system runs at a higher pressure) and maybe the fueling problems are seperate? Whatever the case is it's probably safe not to run the car for now because you don't want neither of those mixed with the oil...

[aMBIENTt3RROR]

I'm not driving the car. And yes I'm sure it is gasoline. I have also showed the contaminated oil to other people and before I explain anything they say, "whao that reaks of gas, is that your oil?"

[b7_Andy]

I'm not driving the car. And yes I'm sure it is gasoline. I have also showed the contaminated oil to other people and before I explain anything they say, "whao that reaks of gas, is that your oil?"

Damn I have never heard of that... So thinking about it the only places where your fuel is close to your oil is the HPFP or the combustion chamber. I hate to be the guy that jumps to a conclusion and say rings... But if you already had the HPFP replaced I don't know what else it could be besides rings.

[aMBIENTt3RROR]

So I just pulled the HPFP and checked the cam follower and everything appears good. The oil between the cam follower and the fuel pump smells rich of gas and looks really thin, but I don't see anything else wrong. But that doesn't mean that gas isn't passing through the spring area on the pump. How would I go about checking that out? Should I take the pump apart? Or take it to a dealership to have them check it? Or should I hook up the fuel lines and try to run the pump and see if it sprays fuel out?

[shahk62]

If it's rings then are you also seeing a high oil consumption?


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[aMBIENTt3RROR]

The oil level on the dipstick raises up from the gas, so I'm not sure if I'm consuming more oil.

[Jake@JHM]

Misfiring or running rich will add excessive fuel to the cylinder. Depending how bad you have it you could be getting fuel in the system from past the piston rings

[vvenom800tt]

Cant the internal seal on the HPFP go bad, causing fuel to enter the engine?

[Jake@JHM]

Cant the internal seal on the HPFP go bad, causing fuel to enter the engine?

It can, but typically it will need to be damaged during a HPFP removal/install for that to happen.

[vvenom800tt]

Does that seal have a part number? Worth replacing once i order my JHM internals ? hint hint

[Older_not_Wiser]

Misfiring or running rich will add excessive fuel to the cylinder. Depending how bad you have it you could be getting fuel in the system from past the piston rings

He said his oil level went up a quart in 250 miles. I am thinking he would have to be dumping so much gas into a cylinder that it isn't even burning it all and leaving liquid after the combustion stroke. I guess it is possible. Pull the plugs and see if one or more is sooty black and/or wet. Might provide some insight

[jnorman2]

He said his oil level went up a quart in 250 miles. I am thinking he would have to be dumping so much gas into a cylinder that it isn't even burning it all and leaving liquid after the combustion stroke. I guess it is possible. Pull the plugs and see if one or more is sooty black and/or wet. Might provide some insight

I would start with cylinder 1 as he said he has a misfire code on that one.

[esandes]

my oil also smells like gas but it's all oil. i tried to light the oil on the dipstick and it wouldn't light-which is a good sign there's no fuel in the oil.

[Okedokey]

No fuel will remain in the cylinder as liquid when running. I would run very rich if that was the case. I am leaning towards the HPFP.

[aMBIENTt3RROR]

Can I post picture on here from my phone?(sorry kind of new to posting on audizine) I took the HPFP off and there is an area in the housing that the cam follower and HPFP mount that looks like it has been polished as if gas was spraying from the pump in one area saturating it in fuel. I wiped that area down to clean the surface to see the affected area better and noticed my towel had very little oil on it and most of what I wiped off was a yellowish color that reeked of gas.

[aMBIENTt3RROR]

He said his oil level went up a quart in 250 miles. I am thinking he would have to be dumping so much gas into a cylinder that it isn't even burning it all and leaving liquid after the combustion stroke. I guess it is possible. Pull the plugs and see if one or more is sooty black and/or wet. Might provide some insight

The only thing that makes me think it isn't dumping into the cylinder is after it warms up it drives just fine. No loss of power. It doesn't have a hard time performing at any time after its warm. Just issues when I first start it up.

[80sGuy]

I have a 2008 A4 with a 2.0t and have noticed a lot of gas in my oil. When I first noticed it it didn't seem that bad, but I decided to look into why it was happening. I only have a VW dealership in my town so I took my car there to ask them what this was all about. I was told the PCV was a common issue and possibly had a recall. They directed me to an Audi dealership about 75 miles away, which I ended up taking the car to, to get the PCV and fuel pressure sensor replaced with the update/recall. After I brought my car back home I decided to change my oil. The oil seemed very unusual and after I drained the oil I noticed about 8 quarts of oil/gas came out. Everyone I had talked to said that my issue is more than likely the PCV and to just change the oil and keep an eye on it. I changed the oil and have driven it maybe about 250 miles and already the dipstick is reading that there is a quart more fluid since I filled the oil. My check engine light was showing, P0036 HO2S heater control circuit(bank 1 sensor 2), P0089 suction control valve stuck, P0301 cylinder 1 misfire detected, P2293 fuel pressure regular 2 performance pending. It was showing all of these codes before I got the PCV and fuel pressure sensor replaced. I haven't scanned it since. I have been told that it is common to get fuel past the cylinder rings, but my concern is something has to be wrong with this much fuel in the oil. Before this issue started I started having a rough idle at cold start. The rough idle doesn't stop when the engine gets up to temp, but it stops after the car has ran for about 1-2 minutes, then it will get up to temp a few minutes after that. Sometimes it will backfire while driving after I let off the throttle, but that is the only time it backfires. Recently when I start the car It wont hold an idle unless i keep my foot on the throttle and try to average 2,000 rpms(which is very difficult to do because it will get to the point it tries to die, then it will rev up to about 3,000 rpms and back and forth). After managing the throttle for a couple minutes it becomes less severe and will idle rough for a couple minutes then it's fine and can be driven. However I don't want to drive it at all until i get this issue resolved. Any help is appreciated, Thanks.

You mentioned they replaced the Fuel Pressure Sensor, do you mean this part? When my car threw the P0089 code four years ago, that's what I replaced.

[Charles.waite]

I also suspect a bad internal HPFP seal. I would buy a new pump if it were me.

Do a compression test to rule out gas getting into the crankcase. Frankly though I fine that explanation extremely hard to believe. You'd have to be running on like 3 cylinders and literally have a hole in your piston or be making zero compression for enough liquid gas to be making it into the crankcase.

Considering that hpfps leaking fuel into the oil is actually a somewhat common problem that I've heard of around here, that would be my bet. And just replacing the outer rubber oring won't solve this. That just seals the pump housing with the head so that oil doesn't spew out there. The fuel is all handled internally in the pump so the oil way for it to get out would be through the piston bore and into the timing housing.

[aMBIENTt3RROR]

I also suspect a bad internal HPFP seal. I would buy a new pump if it were me.

Do a compression test to rule out gas getting into the crankcase. Frankly though I fine that explanation extremely hard to believe. You'd have to be running on like 3 cylinders and literally have a hole in your piston or be making zero compression for enough liquid gas to be making it into the crankcase.

Considering that hpfps leaking fuel into the oil is actually a somewhat common problem that I've heard of around here, that would be my bet. And just replacing the outer rubber oring won't solve this. That just seals the pump housing with the head so that oil doesn't spew out there. The fuel is all handled internally in the pump so the oil way for it to get out would be through the piston bore and into the timing housing.

I completely agree with this. I haven't done a compression test, but I am firing on all 4 cylinders just fine and have noticed no power loss what so ever.

- - - Updated - - -

I just tested the HPFP and it is leaking. I am about to run a diagnostic on the vagcom to see if it has anything else to say. I will also pull the spark plugs and see if there is anything abnormal in there, but for right now the HPFP has failed.

[blgilles]

Was there a definitive result here? Did replacing the HPFP fix the problem?

[esandes]

Just a new seal should do, no?

[Theiceman]

didn't read the whole thread but sure sounds like yoi have an injector stuck open. Any difficulties starting the car ? if its hard starting its likely an injector .. put igniton on for a few minutes or even just open the door for the pump to prime up. pop the plugs and look for the wet one.
you could pop the plugs , put the ignition on and watch for one spraying in maybe ..

[A-BlacK_MambA-4]

Thought I would resurrect this thread because I'm having this same issue. Oil reaks of gas and I'm getting between 15-18 MPGs right now. Normally get around 26-28 MPGs. Also just threw a P2178 - system too rich off idle code. Within the last few months I have replaced turbo, MAF, crank sensor, vvt sensor/valve, spark plugs and both O2 sensors. My long term fuel trim is hanging out at -18 to -22. Car runs Ok with no misfires to speak of. Just burning/losing a shit ton of fuel. I got my pump off of Shane Drake years ago and it has either the KMD or Autotech internals I don't recall which now. I suspect that the internal seal has failed, but can't find if it's a replaceable part or not.

[Low and Behold]

Thought I would resurrect this thread because I'm having this same issue. Oil reaks of gas and I'm getting between 15-18 MPGs right now. Normally get around 26-28 MPGs. Also just threw a P2178 - system too rich at idle code. Within the last few months I have replaced turbo, MAF, crank sensor, vvt sensor/valve, spark plugs and both O2 sensors. My long term fuel trim is hanging out at -18 to -22. Car runs Ok with no misfires to speak of. Just burning/losing a shit ton of fuel. I got my pump off of Shane Drake years ago and it has either the KMD or Autotech internals I don't recall which now. I suspect that the internal seal has failed, but can't find if it's a replaceable part or not.

I haven't had first hand experience with this on a b7, but I have on a b8. We replaced the HPFP and injectors (the injectors are cheap for the b8 so we just did it anyway). Fixed the issue.

That car had trouble starting sometimes. Suspected too much fuel leaking into the cylinder making it hard to start. Do you have this issue as well?

[A-BlacK_MambA-4]

I haven't had first hand experience with this on a b7, but I have on a b8. We replaced the HPFP and injectors (the injectors are cheap for the b8 so we just did it anyway). Fixed the issue.

That car had trouble starting sometimes. Suspected too much fuel leaking into the cylinder making it hard to start. Do you have this issue as well?

Don't have any starting issues at all. I'd like to take the HPFP off and check the pump internals just to see what I find. I can't find that internal seal anywhere so my guess is that it isn't a replaceable part.

[Low and Behold]

I don't *think* it is. Would be worth picking up a new/used one to swap and see. @impulse is selling one in the classifieds

If you change it out, change your oil too

[Charles.waite]

I would also send a sample to Balckstone and see what they say about the oil.

But yea as far as I know the pump internals aren’t user serviceable.

[Older_not_Wiser]

With negative fuel trims and gas in the oil smell and poor MPG, I would suspect fuel injectors. The negative trim is trying to pull fuel.

[EvolutionArmory]

These injectors fail open a lot according to Jake at JHM. And it appears to be on many different platforms.

At least it’s pretty easy to figure out what it could be. There’s only really 2 possibilities. Injectors or HPFP.

[Theiceman]

Usually if ifs an injector it's hard starting as car is flooded this is very common on B8s. Hard starting, wet plugs. I would look at pump seals.

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[audilove3]

this diag is going all over the place. some of you should jump

[Theiceman]

this diag is going all over the place. some of you should jump

only seems that way to a troll who is simply too stupid to be able to follow along...

[EvolutionArmory]

this diag is going all over the place. some of you should jump

The only reason this thread is hard for you to follow is because you’re a complete retard.

Fuel in the oil can only happen for a couple reasons smart guy. It’s not burning in the cylinders and leaking past the rings or the HPFP is leaking internally and it’s mixing that way.

You should jump....off a building. That’s the greatest gift you could give to the world.

[Theiceman]

The only reason this thread is hard for you to follow is because you’re a complete retard.

Fuel in the oil can only happen for a couple reasons smart guy. It’s not burning in the cylinders and leaking past the rings or the HPFP is leaking internally and it’s mixing that way.

You should jump....off a building. That’s the greatest gift you could give to the world.

Wow I have not heard " retard" in forever. It is just so fitting it was worth pulling out of the archives for.

Well played

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[A-BlacK_MambA-4]

The more I think about this problem I think it would have to be injector related. If it was a leaking HPFP then my oil level would rise, correct? I'm actually getting a rich condition so the fuel is making it into the cylinder to be burned, just too much at once. I thought about getting a scope and checking to see if I can see fuel dripping into the cylinder. I have had a few hard starts this week and on initial startup and put into reverse/drive the RPMs a bouncing all over the place. Kind of like surging then dropping. Surging then dropping. I have tested for boost leaks and I'm good on that end. I haven't had the first misfire, but the exhaust smells terrible and still getting horrible MPG.

I read somewhere that a clogged filter could be starving the engine of air and could cause a rich condition. I haven't tried running it without a filter for a few minutes just to see if that changes anything. I run a custom intake with a cheap cone filter.

[Theiceman]

The more I think about this problem I think it would have to be injector related. If it was a leaking HPFP then my oil level would rise, correct? I'm actually getting a rich condition so the fuel is making it into the cylinder to be burned, just too much at once. I thought about getting a scope and checking to see if I can see fuel dripping into the cylinder. I have had a few hard starts this week and on initial startup and put into reverse/drive the RPMs a bouncing all over the place. Kind of like surging then dropping. Surging then dropping. I have tested for boost leaks and I'm good on that end. I haven't had the first misfire, but the exhaust smells terrible and still getting horrible MPG.

I read somewhere that a clogged filter could be starving the engine of air and could cause a rich condition. I haven't tried running it without a filter for a few minutes just to see if that changes anything. I run a custom intake with a cheap cone filter.

okay lets back up either a leakking injector or fuel pump could cause oil level to rise... but doesnt have to happen in either case ... go read todays thread on the guys leaking injector .. started filling up his crankase.


you can check for a bad injector relatively easily... open the drivers door on a cold engine .. . dont start it ... ( opening the door primes the pump ) . then go take your plugs out .. if you see one of them wet. that is the injector that is leaking. it should not spray until car is started. if you have a wet plug as soon as you take the plug out the priming pump fired it out the bad injector.

if you had a bad injector in your theory one plug may be black as it is too rich.. if all plugs are black then it is doubtful you have all 4 bad injectors.

Also it is the O2 sensors job to lean out your fuel mixture for efficient running . if your exhaust stinks and you are suffering fuel consumption issues, log your O2 performance.

this is all assuming basic maintenance has been done and your air filters are fine.

[Charles.waite]

I think your air filter would have to be extraordinarily clogged to cause actual running issues, not just a loss of power because that’s a static restriction that can easily be compensated for by the ECU.

I think the hard starting could point to something. My guess is injector related. Ruling out the HPFP should be easy by just logging rail pressure from off to on until RPMS stabilize. Then comparing the pressure ramp up with a known good pump. Many of us could provide you target data to compare with. If the fuel pressure ramps up quickly then I expect you could reasonably rule out a HPFP leak. I think injectors are the most likely culprit here...