Headlight comparison - B8.5 S4 vs. late model BMW & MB

[SteveYem]

Disclaimer - this discussion contains maybe too many variables to reach any clear conclusion, but hopefully others can chime in with their experience and observation.

I have OEM European-spec headlights with the original HID bulbs supplied by Audi installed on my 2015 S4. Each headlight has a sheet of Xpel Ultimate 0.008" clear film installed on the housing lens. I have noticed that the illumination of the road is good, but the beam pattern cutoff is not very sharp and has a yellow-ish tint and not a blue/purple/white hue like the headlights I see on most luxury brand cars.
A couple weeks ago I was driving near a late model BMW (5-series IIRC) which was following a late model Mercedes Benz (3## series IIRC), both of which had very bright, near-white headlight output with sharp cut-offs. My headlight output looked yellow in comparison. Where my beam pattern overlapped that of the BMW in front of me, the difference was stark - his beam was brighter and "whiter" than mine.

BTW, I cannot prove this but can confidently say that these were late-model and not apparently modified vehicles (i.e. appeared to be at stock ride height, stock exhaust, stock wheels) and appeared to have HID projector headlights as opposed to LED array.

Regarding the cut-off pattern/sharpness, I believe my headlights are not aimed properly and I need to get that corrected. I plan to have the Audi dealer do it at my next service visit. But regarding the headlight color, including the color band at the cut-off, I have some questions:

1) Do other luxury brands (BMW, MB, Lexus, Acura) use a higher color temperature than Audi for their headlight bulbs? My understanding has been that the only 'legal' color per DOT regulations for HID headlights is 4300k. If my headlights are 4300k, these BMW and MB lights appeared to be 5500-6000k in comparison.

2) Does the clear Xpel Ultimate film on the headlights cause a change in the color output? I have confirmed by visual inspection that the film is clean so I do not believe dirt/dust/residue is contributing to the issue. I know there is only one way to find out, i.e. remove the Xpel film, but I really do not want to do that if I don't have to, so I'm mainly looking for anecdotal advice or empirical evidence/observations on this issue.

3) Are our S4 headlights supposed to have that blue-ish color band at the beam cutoff line, or not? Keep in mind that I have the OEM E-code headlights, so I would think that the decreased projector lens texturing of the e-codes versus the US-spec headlights would give me a better shot at having that nice crisp coloring at the cutoff. I think even my wife's 2015 GTI headlights have that nice coloration at the cutoff, so again I'm surprised my 2015 S4 does not.


Any other advice or commentary would be welcomed! I guess ultimately I'm trying to evaluate whether I should be looking at a 5000-5500k color temperature bulb to replace the existing ones, or if the root of my problem lies elsewhere.

[RudyH]

Stupid question to ask...

Have you looked at the light when high beams are on? I seem to recall last time the light being a bit more yellow as well.
http://www.xenonhids.com/bulb-types.html

Here is our bulb...looks like we have a single
http://www.lightbulbs4cars.com/product/HID3S6

This is from the suspect BMW you mentioned
http://www.lightbulbs4cars.com/product/HID1S6

[SteveYem]

Stupid question to ask...

Have you looked at the light when high beams are on? I seem to recall last time the light being a bit more yellow as well.
http://www.xenonhids.com/bulb-types.html

Here is our bulb...looks like we have a single
http://www.lightbulbs4cars.com/product/HID3S6

This is from the suspect BMW you mentioned
http://www.lightbulbs4cars.com/product/HID1S6

I had not noticed any difference in color between low and high beam output. If that's true then I guess the color is affected by the amount of light coming from the projector (considering they are bi-xenon projectors)?
According to the links you provided, both cars use 6000k color temperature but I did not think that color temperature was legal in the USA. Maybe I need to do some more learning on this topic.

[jlaudio]

In my experience Audi OEM Valeo or Bosch lights always are terrible in comparison to Audi's competitors. It's like we get the rejected parts from other OEM manufacturers. A great example of this is our projector lens vs Acura TSX lenses which are used in my aftermarket upgrades/projector conversions. Audi's North American lens has rib's on it that intentionally muddy the beam pattern to be DOT compliant.
I've also noticed how much whiter or bluer the new BMW/Merc lights are. I've read somewhere that they use the philips x-tremevision 5k bulbs from the factory and cannot find the thread where this was mentioned. I've swapped my bulbs with the X-treme vision bulbs but it's still not as "bright" as BMW's or Merc's OEM bulbs. The only thing i can attribute this to at this point is the lens.

Easiest fix for your issues? Crack open the e-codes and swap in a different lens on the projector. TSX lenses and others will slide right in, no modification needed. There were a few members that did this a few years ago.

[torinalth]

regarding the sharpness and the "color" at the edging where it cuts off, this is a direct result of the lenses that audi chose to use. That being said, since you have the E-codes you should have the proper clear lenses with proper spacing to make it sharp and crisp. That being said my truck I retrofitted with a different light and is using a different projector in total that makes a big difference. the FXR in my truck makes the US-spec projectors in my S4 look like crap. which is why I am going to talk to TRS this summer about whta other projectors can possibly swap over directly. Worst case I'll just replace the lenses.

[Silverbullet S4]

Stupid question to ask...

Hey smartass, then why is there a color difference if both are supposed to be 6K based on the info you provided? No reason to be a dick to the guy....jeez.

[jlaudio]

I had not noticed any difference in color between low and high beam output. If that's true then I guess the color is affected by the amount of light coming from the projector (considering they are bi-xenon projectors)?
According to the links you provided, both cars use 6000k color temperature but I did not think that color temperature was legal in the USA. Maybe I need to do some more learning on this topic.

His links are wrong. Factory bulbs for Audi are 4300k temp, same as BMW. I've read somewhere that BMW/Merc now uses Philips X-treme vision bulb from the factory.
Funny too is he links you to knockoff no name brand bulbs that are overpriced...

[Silverbullet S4]

His links are wrong.

Even better....lol

[SteveYem]

regarding the sharpness and the "color" at the edging where it cuts off, this is a direct result of the lenses that audi chose to use. That being said, since you have the E-codes you should have the proper clear lenses with proper spacing to make it sharp and crisp. That being said my truck I retrofitted with a different light and is using a different projector in total that makes a big difference. the FXR in my truck makes the US-spec projectors in my S4 look like crap. which is why I am going to talk to TRS this summer about whta other projectors can possibly swap over directly. Worst case I'll just replace the lenses.

Thanks for the input. I thought the same thing regarding the ecode lenses, but in fact even the ecode lenses have some of that dimpling (maybe half as much as the US-spec lenses) and I'm not sure whether the glass is perfectly clear. Now I'm thinking of a little springtime project of replacing the projector lenses with clear ones, then having the headlights properly aimed after reinstalling. But I have to say that it sounds daunting. I've opened the headlights before, but never screwed around with the projectors or the LED DRL strips. They look so delicate that I'm afraid I would break something.

[Brother Owl]

Regarding the cut-off pattern/sharpness, I believe my headlights are not aimed properly and I need to get that corrected. I plan to have the Audi dealer do it at my next service visit.

Sorry if a little off-topic Steve, but I too have OEM e-codes and just dropped off the car at the dealer to address the aim of the lights(among other things). Do you feel that your e-codes are pointing too far down? My cutoff is only ~40-50ft in front of me and it almost feels a little dangerous on dark roads w/out using my high beams...

[SteveYem]

Sorry if a little off-topic Steve, but I too have OEM e-codes and just dropped off the car at the dealer to address the aim of the lights(among other things). Do you feel that your e-codes are pointing too far down? My cutoff is only ~40-50ft in front of me and it almost feels a little dangerous on dark roads w/out using my high beams...

I did feel that way when I first installed them, so I adjusted them upwards until I got them to where I have adequate visibility, and in fact I probably have them too high but I have not seen anyone flashing their high beams at me, so I have not dialed them down at all. My problem is that I was adjusting them at home, not per the proper procedure, so the two projector beams are not properly aligned relative to each other.

[yjypm]

I did feel that way when I first installed them, so I adjusted them upwards until I got them to where I have adequate visibility, and in fact I probably have them too high but I have not seen anyone flashing their high beams at me, so I have not dialed them down at all. My problem is that I was adjusting them at home, not per the proper procedure, so the two projector beams are not properly aligned relative to each other.

How did you adjust them? Is it the screw in this picture?

[SteveYem]

How did you adjust them? Is it the screw in this picture?

Nope, there is a white adjustment screw/knob facing upward toward the back of the headlight housing, in the vicinity of the airbox on the passenger side headlight shown in your photo. The screw I am referencing only adjusts up/down. If the projectors need to be adjusted side-to-side I'm not sure if the entire housing needs to be moved using the screw you are showing, or if there is a side-side adjustment screw for the projector itself. Maybe someone else can clear this up for us.

[yjypm]

Nope, there is a white adjustment screw/knob facing upward toward the back of the headlight housing, in the vicinity of the airbox on the passenger side headlight shown in your photo. The screw I am referencing only adjusts up/down. If the projectors need to be adjusted side-to-side I'm not sure if the entire housing needs to be moved using the screw you are showing, or if there is a side-side adjustment screw for the projector itself. Maybe someone else can clear this up for us.

This one?

[SteveYem]

This one?

Yes, If memory serves that is the one.

[yjypm]

Yes, If memory serves that is the one.

Thank you!
Will try when the dark comes!

[raudiace4]

Disclaimer - this discussion contains maybe too many variables to reach any clear conclusion, but hopefully others can chime in with their experience and observation.

I have OEM European-spec headlights with the original HID bulbs supplied by Audi installed on my 2015 S4. Each headlight has a sheet of Xpel Ultimate 0.008" clear film installed on the housing lens. I have noticed that the illumination of the road is good, but the beam pattern cutoff is not very sharp and has a yellow-ish tint and not a blue/purple/white hue like the headlights I see on most luxury brand cars.
A couple weeks ago I was driving near a late model BMW (5-series IIRC) which was following a late model Mercedes Benz (3## series IIRC), both of which had very bright, near-white headlight output with sharp cut-offs. My headlight output looked yellow in comparison. Where my beam pattern overlapped that of the BMW in front of me, the difference was stark - his beam was brighter and "whiter" than mine.

BTW, I cannot prove this but can confidently say that these were late-model and not apparently modified vehicles (i.e. appeared to be at stock ride height, stock exhaust, stock wheels) and appeared to have HID projector headlights as opposed to LED array.

Regarding the cut-off pattern/sharpness, I believe my headlights are not aimed properly and I need to get that corrected. I plan to have the Audi dealer do it at my next service visit. But regarding the headlight color, including the color band at the cut-off, I have some questions:

1) Do other luxury brands (BMW, MB, Lexus, Acura) use a higher color temperature than Audi for their headlight bulbs? My understanding has been that the only 'legal' color per DOT regulations for HID headlights is 4300k. If my headlights are 4300k, these BMW and MB lights appeared to be 5500-6000k in comparison.

2) Does the clear Xpel Ultimate film on the headlights cause a change in the color output? I have confirmed by visual inspection that the film is clean so I do not believe dirt/dust/residue is contributing to the issue. I know there is only one way to find out, i.e. remove the Xpel film, but I really do not want to do that if I don't have to, so I'm mainly looking for anecdotal advice or empirical evidence/observations on this issue.

3) Are our S4 headlights supposed to have that blue-ish color band at the beam cutoff line, or not? Keep in mind that I have the OEM E-code headlights, so I would think that the decreased projector lens texturing of the e-codes versus the US-spec headlights would give me a better shot at having that nice crisp coloring at the cutoff. I think even my wife's 2015 GTI headlights have that nice coloration at the cutoff, so again I'm surprised my 2015 S4 does not.


Any other advice or commentary would be welcomed! I guess ultimately I'm trying to evaluate whether I should be looking at a 5000-5500k color temperature bulb to replace the existing ones, or if the root of my problem lies elsewhere.

The LED bulbs will always be whiter, and produce more light as most of the late model MB, BMW cars offer these as options. As for the beam pattern being sharper, it could be due to the more advanced designs in late model LED headlamp units because I also have noticed a much sharper output pattern on my E63 compared to my S4.

[SteveYem]

The conclusion I am reaching at this point is to upgrade to a pair of Philips Extreme Vision 5000K bulbs, and swap in a set of aftermarket clear projector lenses, to achieve brighter, whiter output with a sharper beam cut-off.

[doug97gxe]

i always thought the BMW's and Acura TL temp was a little more purplish than Audi

[torinalth]

the extreme visions don't change that much. I got them and am still disappointed I spent the money.

[SteveYem]

the extreme visions don't change that much. I got them and am still disappointed I spent the money.

Good feedback, thanks for that! So maybe it comes down to the style of the projector more so than the brightness and/or color of the bulb itself?

[torinalth]

I think so. based on sheer stats the extreme visions should be just a hair below my truck output..... and my truck is a lighthouse compared to the audi's flashlight.

[Jroyalty7]

the extreme visions don't change that much. I got them and am still disappointed I spent the money.

Curious to hear more on this as I'm sitting on a pair of Phillips extreme vision +50 I haven't gotten to install yet... Are you saying that there really is not that much of an improvement over the stock 4300ks to justify the expense?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[jlaudio]

Curious to hear more on this as I'm sitting on a pair of Phillips extreme vision +50 I haven't gotten to install yet... Are you saying that there really is not that much of an improvement over the stock 4300ks to justify the expense?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

to be dead honest, i think there was an overall decrease in lighting output, regardless of what Philips or what the vendors say. So much so that I'm in the process of buying 4300k OEM bulbs to swap out the X-treme vision bulbs. It's most noticeable when its raining and night time. Do they look great and bluer when compared to the OEM bulbs? Yep. does that translate into seeing further or more of the road? Negative. The higher the Kelvin temp of the bulb, the lower output the bulb produces. I fell victim to the marketing tactics of the vendors. I also had a bulb out at the time so i needed to replace with something.

It could be my eyes playing tricks but i'm not very happy with them overall. $200 lesson learned.

I see people buying the other Philips bulbs - the CBI's. I have a feeling that they are in for a world of disappointment when they install. It might look better, but its not safer due to the reduction in lighting output. It doesn't help that our OEM audi lights are terrible to begin with compared to Audi's competitors. They sure are good at LED strips though!

[torinalth]

unlike JL, I dont think i lost light, but for the cost i think it was a waste. the color is not that much different either. I've already decided to pursue a better lighting setup via different projector/lens combo and if possible a 50w ballast and high output bulbs. if you have working bulbs, then there is no point in spending the money on the extremes. if you need replacements as is, then it's not a bad option, but not great. To be honest the audi lights are not terrible, but yes they can be outclassed by others on the market. If you do really want an upgrade, it'll be a project or a chunk of change. no simple project with this one it seems.

[jlaudio]

^ Loss of light could be attributed to me having terrible eyesight. I also think the "bluer" the light is, the harder it is to see in rain. My bulbs have about 60 hours on them now

[Jroyalty7]

unlike JL, I dont think i lost light, but for the cost i think it was a waste. the color is not that much different either. I've already decided to pursue a better lighting setup via different projector/lens combo and if possible a 50w ballast and high output bulbs. if you have working bulbs, then there is no point in spending the money on the extremes. if you need replacements as is, then it's not a bad option, but not great. To be honest the audi lights are not terrible, but yes they can be outclassed by others on the market. If you do really want an upgrade, it'll be a project or a chunk of change. no simple project with this one it seems.

to be dead honest, i think there was an overall decrease in lighting output, regardless of what Philips or what the vendors say. So much so that I'm in the process of buying 4300k OEM bulbs to swap out the X-treme vision bulbs. It's most noticeable when its raining and night time. Do they look great and bluer when compared to the OEM bulbs? Yep. does that translate into seeing further or more of the road? Negative. The higher the Kelvin temp of the bulb, the lower output the bulb produces. I fell victim to the marketing tactics of the vendors. I also had a bulb out at the time so i needed to replace with something.

It could be my eyes playing tricks but i'm not very happy with them overall. $200 lesson learned.

I see people buying the other Philips bulbs - the CBI's. I have a feeling that they are in for a world of disappointment when they install. It might look better, but its not safer due to the reduction in lighting output. It doesn't help that our OEM audi lights are terrible to begin with compared to Audi's competitors. They sure are good at LED strips though!

Thank you both, this is a bit disheartening as I too fell victim to the talk about these being such a vast improvement that I ordered them... But now I'm hesitating to install them because I don't want to throw that money out the window for a subpar product. I tried finding comparisons everywhere that clearly show the difference but nothing that was definitive. Ughhh decisions, decisions... Thank you for the honest feedback though!

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[VenturiRS]

The best mod to start with, in my opinion, is clear lens. Start there, if not sufficient, upgrade to a new projector. I did it on all my previous cars, I just feel like leaving this car alone...for now. Save my money for something else.

[mjames]

All I can say is this...

The difference between LED and xenon is like halogen to xenon. LEDs are a MUST for me in my next car. I love the white!

[SteveYem]

Does anyone have reason to believe that the clear Xpel Ultimate 0.008" film on my housing lenses is causing a change in the color of the beam and/or cutoff band? Again, I do not see any blue/indigo in my cutoff band...it's basically a yellowish/brownish color. I'm wondering if I should be looking at removing the protective film, retrofitting different projector lenses, or both.

[b8audis4]

Where did you buy your Euro Spec's from? I got mine from OEM Plus before they went out of business and mine seem to be pointed high. They are OEM but they don't have the Audi rings on them. Wondering if any of this makes a difference. They are still by the same supplier so it doesn't matter.

[SteveYem]

Where did you buy your Euro Spec's from? I got mine from OEM Plus before they went out of business and mine seem to be pointed high. They are OEM but they don't have the Audi rings on them. Wondering if any of this makes a difference. They are still by the same supplier so it doesn't matter.

Well mine are now a mixed batch. My original set was purchased from German eBay and were take-offs from a B8.5. I do not know whether they came from an A4, S4 or Allroad. Then one was damaged in a minor front-end collision and was replaced with a complete unit from Europrice (a vendor on this forum). I do not know if any of them have the Audi 4-rings logo, but I know they all have the AL (Automotive Lighting) logo, which is the OEM manufacturer of these lights.

[yjypm]

Where did you buy your Euro Spec's from? I got mine from OEM Plus before they went out of business and mine seem to be pointed high. They are OEM but they don't have the Audi rings on them. Wondering if any of this makes a difference. They are still by the same supplier so it doesn't matter.

Europrice or tagmotorsport, europrice used to be cheaper but now tag has a better price

[torinalth]

Does anyone have reason to believe that the clear Xpel Ultimate 0.008" film on my housing lenses is causing a change in the color of the beam and/or cutoff band? Again, I do not see any blue/indigo in my cutoff band...it's basically a yellowish/brownish color. I'm wondering if I should be looking at removing the protective film, retrofitting different projector lenses, or both.

no. mine have the blue indigo and I have xpel ultimate on. did not change color after the install either. as far as yellowish/brownish, maybe because of the stock bulbs vs mine being the philips xtreme? but even then there was not a yellow band when I had stock bulbs that I recall. But no, it is not the Xpel, of that I can say for sure. clear lenses, new projectors, better bulbs. that is what is going to change things. If the changeover to a different projector is going to be too difficult then I'll just contact lightwerkz and have them take care of it, but i'll feel out a DIY first.

[vwblackb5]

Help us quantify these observations Steve. Could you maybe take a photo of your head lights with low beams on (front shot), photo of beam pattern (park in front of garage wall min 5ft distance), and photo of light output/throw (unlit street with low beams on, no fogs).

It would be interesting to see the difference L/R assuming they're both aimed properly with OEM Non Ecodes vs OEM Ecodes, OEM Ecodes + Xpel Film vs OEM Ecodes no Xpel, OEM Ecodes + Xpel vs OEM Non Ecodes. Through this segmentation, you can quantify effect of xpel film and projector lens difference between Ecodes vs Non-ecodes.

Here's a few Kelvin temperature scales for your reference

[Oloung1]

no. mine have the blue indigo and I have xpel ultimate on. did not change color after the install either. as far as yellowish/brownish, maybe because of the stock bulbs vs mine being the philips xtreme? but even then there was not a yellow band when I had stock bulbs that I recall. But no, it is not the Xpel, of that I can say for sure. clear lenses, new projectors, better bulbs. that is what is going to change things. If the changeover to a different projector is going to be too difficult then I'll just contact lightwerkz and have them take care of it, but i'll feel out a DIY first.

+1 on xpel not turning the light color yellow. ive had xpel ultimate on my headlights within the first few weeks of ownership and while my light patterns seem short (distance wise) they are never yellow. i can sense that my passenger NA-spec projector cutoff is 2-3 feet higher than my driver side cutoff, which leads to a "darkout" area in between the 2 projectors. the light pattern does overlap near the middle of the car but ive always felt the driver side to be low a few inches. i haven't taken the time with painters tape and a measuring tape on a wall to check the alignment but just eyeballing from 40-50 feet away, the projectors seems to be aligned closed enough.

that said if you are going for a "blue cutoff" look like other cars, you will have to find a projector with that color cutoff. i bought a retrofit hella h4 projector kit years ago for my b-body chevy, each projector had 100 watt halogen h4 bulbs. each cutoff off was crisp but had a dark blue hue near the edge of the cutoff.

[jlaudio]

+1 on xpel not turning the light color yellow. ive had xpel ultimate on my headlights within the first few weeks of ownership and while my light patterns seem short (distance wise) they are never yellow. i can sense that my passenger NA-spec projector cutoff is 2-3 feet higher than my driver side cutoff, which leads to a "darkout" area in between the 2 projectors. the light pattern does overlap near the middle of the car but ive always felt the driver side to be low a few inches. i haven't taken the time with painters tape and a measuring tape on a wall to check the alignment but just eyeballing from 40-50 feet away, the projectors seems to be aligned closed enough.

that said if you are going for a "blue cutoff" look like other cars, you will have to find a projector with that color cutoff. i bought a retrofit hella h4 projector kit years ago for my b-body chevy, each projector had 100 watt halogen h4 bulbs. each cutoff off was crisp but had a dark blue hue near the edge of the cutoff.

projectors do not change the color of any beam or cutoff, the projector is just an assembly and the lens is a clear piece of glass. the bulb is what drives the color of the headlight beam.

everyone should be careful when adjusting their headlights. people keep talking about differences in heights in inches or feet of the cutoff- is this 5 feet away from the wall or 60 ft away from a wall? big difference there.

[bberg22]

If i remember correctly some other German cars use a 55W setup vs 35W for their Xenons (BMW I think is one) in which case the amount of light will be greater. The diameter of the lens/projector can also play into 2.5 vs 3.5 are the common sizes if I am not mistaken with the 3.5 giving off more light. I purchased a set of OSRAM Xenarc CBI bulbs which I had great success with in my last car (Acura). When I install them I will try to post some pictures. I Also recently installed the 5000k fogs which do appear brighter/whiter than the stock Xenon bulbs. I am hoping the OSRAM bulbs will match the 5000K fogs color temp. Also the lumen output generally goes down when the color temp goes up so this could be why you feel like they aren't as bright. Comparatively the OSRAM bulbs are rated at 3400lm vs the Philips 2800lm

Also try looking at the headlight output from outside the car instead of inside, (it could just be me but) I have always felt like looking at the light output from outside of the car looked better than from inside (this is only helpful when talking about appearance rather than your view of the road). And in the wet the lower color temp light becomes more usable than the higher color temp, but I personally still prefer the whiter light.

As others have said the stock aim of the projectors seems conservatively low and narrow from the factory. I am going to play with my headlight aim after installing the new bulbs to see what impact that has on visibility.

Also where are you guys buying your bulbs from because places like Amazon or Ebay tend to have knock offs. In the end the returns may be diminished by the quality of the projector lenses as others have said. BMW tend to use higher quality lenses (lookup ZKW and ZKW-R lenses the R stands for replica I believe) and my old Acura had basically a clone version of the ones used by BMW.


Edit: I also find that having the LED fogs helps to increase visibility. The best way I describe it is that "it helps to fill in the shadows" cast by the low beams, other cars, street lamps, etc.

[SteveYem]

Thanks all for the constructive discussion.

[JMUNFORD]

How do you like your 5k HIDS I was thinking about installing those on mine