HR OE springs and stock shocks/struts? Need an explanation.

[rulaxin12]

I'm like many here who run OE springs and kept stock shocks and struts... Ive been reading about how having this setup will mess up your stock shocks/struts.

My questions are:

If this is a big issue why are so many people running this setup?
Is the solution to this to get aftermarket shocks to go with the oe Spring?


What is the difference between a coilover set and HR OE springs+aftermarket shocks? Is the only difference coilovers add adjustability?

I'm looking for insight as my shop told me my rear struts were leaking fluid.. My intention is to get my suspension bits in order but don't know what the most effective way to address this..

What should I do?


Thank you for the time and help!

[JayDog747]

When engineers design the suspension, they match the shocks with the spring rate. They are calibrated to work together. When you change your springs to a higher rate, you force that shock to operate outside the parameters it was designed for causing failure. I'm still looking into if the shock height(piston travel) would have any effect with failure due to a lower spring.

With coil overs you can adjust height and dampening. With OE springs+Bilstein Sport, there are no adjustments. With OE springs+Koni Sport, you can adjust the dampening effect.

On H&R's website, it clearly states that with OE springs you should use performance shocks. Why people don't follow this recommendation, well, maybe you can tell me. You and 604bking(Bad shocks thread) are in the same boat.

You have two choices, Bilstein Sport or Koni Sport. Both of these are designed to work with lowering springs. They're roughly the same price.

How many miles from the time you installed them to the time of failure? Total miles?

[Jay@JXB]

A quick add to this. Other than premature shock failure, you will see a big improvement in handling with the correct shock absorber. Physically, your OEM shocks cannot keep up with the higher spring rate of the OE springs, causing a bouncy or floaty feel. The Bilstein Sport or Koni shocks are much stiffer to match the stiffer springs.

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[fitzydude]

My understanding is that the valve that controls fluid movement in stock strut is meant to operate within a certain height range and when you use lowering springs the strut is operating out of that range most of the time and this blows the valve/seals. The valve in a performance strut works over a wide range of operating heights and won't blow. Now of course I'm just repeating something I read on a Mitsubishi forum when I was 17 so who the hell knows. I also remember when we lowered a friend's Mazda on stock struts it only took about one week before the car became bouncy/floaty.

Coilovers give you better performance and adjustablity over a spring/strut combo. I didn't go that route because in my experience coilovers give to harsh a ride for daily driving. I prefer a progressive spring setup like Eibach for daily driving. Comfortable on the road and firm in the turns.

[Jimmy ny]

I have a rs5 and just changed out my HR oe springs on stock shocks and went to bilstein b12 Kit. Big upgrade in ride , handling , and it sits a tad higher. Check out that kit.


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[rulaxin12]

Jaydog!! Thank you for the explanation.. You must be an engineer!

[onlyaudis]

big fan of the Konis with these cars. work great even with the stock springs. with stock springs, they can be left at the factory soft setting, which is a perfect match for the stock springs. I noticed both an increase in car control and ride quality over the stock shocks. if you run stiffer sports springs, 1/2 turn or so towards a stronger setting will control the stiffer springs better.

[mmm def]

1" drop on the oe springs really going to be that bad on a stock shock? I can see a major drop affecting a lot but something minimal?

[rulaxin12]

On H&R's website, it clearly states that with OE springs you should use performance shocks. Why people don't follow this recommendation, well, maybe you can tell me. You and 604bking(Bad shocks thread) are in the same boat.

You have .

How many miles from the time you installed them to the time of failure? Total miles?

So I did this setup because of cost initially, but now I realize I shouldn't have done it a little different.

Not sure when the failure happened... I've been running this setup for about 1.5 yrs now. Never noticed too much floatiness in that first year. I initially just had the HR OE springs installed and no other components. After about a year I added the ak brace, and ecode end links and sways. After those changes the body roll was almost eliminated and really transformed the handling...

Now my next step is to get a matched shock... This may be a dumb question but new shocks would come with new struts ..correct?

[onlyaudis]

Our cars have shocks in the back, struts in the front. the backs a re a real simple DIY. fronts require a lot more dis assembly and some specialized tools.

[JayDog747]

[QUOTE=fitzydude;11469106]My understanding is that the valve that controls fluid movement in stock strut is meant to operate within a certain height range and when you use lowering springs the strut is operating out of that range most of the time and this blows the valve/seals. The valve in a performance strut works over a wide range of operating heights and won't blow. Now of course I'm just repeating something I read on a Mitsubishi forum when I was 17 so who the hell knows. I also remember when we lowered a friend's Mazda on stock struts it only took about one week before the car became bouncy/floaty.

This is what I am still investigating. The information I have found so far does not support this conclusion.

[JayDog747]

Exactly what onlyaudis said.

No I'm not an engineer just a car nut/racing fan.

[jran76]

H&R OE springs have the same spring rate as the stock springs.

My advice is to add the Bilstein shocks if you already have, and are happy with the OE springs. You'll thank yourself later. I've posted about this several times; if you want more details, just search my recent posts on the subject.

[SportVier]

Now of course I'm just repeating something I read on a Mitsubishi forum when I was 17 so who the hell knows.

Haha. Your candor is most refreshing, sir.

[SportVier]

My advice is to add the Bilstein shocks if you already have, and are happy with the OE springs.

Or sell the OE springs and just step up to some PSS10s.

[JayDog747]

H&R OE springs have the same spring rate as the stock springs.

My advice is to add the Bilstein shocks if you already have, and are happy with the OE springs. You'll thank yourself later. I've posted about this several times; if you want more details, just search my recent posts on the subject.

Do you know what is causing the stock shock to fail?

[Brother Owl]

I'm looking for insight as my shop told me my rear struts were leaking fluid.

Do you know what is causing the stock shock to fail?

Too many dead hookers in your trunk?

[GREYTRACK]

I thought I read somewhere that bilstein shocks and struts will make the car sit slightly lower too. Is there any truth to this?

[infinkc]

Do you know what is causing the stock shock to fail?

I shocks are designed to operate at oem height, when you lower the car you are operating the oem struts at a position they were not intended for, hence they will wear out faster. Using aftermarket shocks fixes the issue as they are designed to be used at a lowered height. There are 2 ways to do it, do it right the first time or do it twice and land up spending more to have someone do the install over when you replace the struts.

[rulaxin12]

Or sell the OE springs and just step up to some PSS10s.

Was there a dramatic difference with PSS10's and OE springs and a bilstein shock? I wonder if anyone has made that jump and noticed a huge difference. Going to read up and search for PSS10 reviews now!!

[rulaxin12]

H&R OE springs have the same spring rate as the stock springs.

My advice is to add the Bilstein shocks if you already have, and are happy with the OE springs. You'll thank yourself later. I've posted about this several times; if you want more details, just search my recent posts on the subject.

Hi Jran,

I read your thread many times and thank you for the info in those! I like to beat dead horses to make sure it is fully dead. : )

[onlyaudis]

not sure if nailed the PS10's on the B8 S4, but they kind of sucked for the street on my B6 A4. the rears were way too stiff even on the softest setting--the car never settled down back there and was constantly making slight jerky motions. Front was OK. I finally took their rear shocks and replaced them with yellow Konis and some slightly lower rate Swift springs. . problem fixed. the Bilstein tech guy I spoke to said he knew they were stiff for the street (they had 525 pound spring rates for the rear) but he was told to try and come up with a set up that works OK for track and street. again, that was for an A4, but I would have to drive a car with them on to see how they rode before I ever spent that kind of money and time putting them on a street car ever again.

[14S4GWM]

I thought I read somewhere that bilstein shocks and struts will make the car sit slightly lower too. Is there any truth to this?

https://www.ecstuning.com/ES248928/?...FdcZgQodSAMDYg

[Luna's S4]

I thought I read somewhere that bilstein shocks and struts will make the car sit slightly lower too. Is there any truth to this?

Taking a leap here: Bilstein PSS10 system? Lowering of between 30-50 mm front & rear. I'll do the math: 30mm = 1 3/16 minimum drop. In other words, the car will be lower no matter what. Clearance shouldn't be an issue with OEM wheel & offset. I had already removed my front fender liner clips so definitely not a problem.

[SportVier]

Taking a leap here: Bilstein PSS10 system? Lowering of between 30-50 mm front & rear. I'll do the math: 30mm = 1 3/16 minimum drop. In other words, the car will be lower no matter what. Clearance shouldn't be an issue with OEM wheel & offset. I had already removed my front fender liner clips so definitely not a problem.

I think that is just boiler plate copy that they use for all the _4 applications: 30-50mm, 1.2-2.0in.

I think the B8 S4 sits about 20mm(?) lower than the A4, so I'm guessing that means minimum drop is more like 10mm/3/4".

[Luna's S4]

I think that is just boiler plate copy that they use for all the _4 applications: 30-50mm, 1.2-2.0in.

I think the B8 S4 sits about 20mm(?) lower than the A4, so I'm guessing that means minimum drop is more like 10mm/3/4".

You are so right. I took that from the ECS site and just posted while in the back of my mind I was questioning it. Need to trust my own notes. OEM was ~14 3/8" from center of wheel to fender, F & R. I went and re-measured just now and its at ~13 3/8" Front & ~13 5/16" Rear. And I'm at just about the highest the adjusters will let the car sit, without compromising full thread contact. I guess you could get to 3/4" minimum drop. The Bilstein instructions appear to indicate 25-45mm height change & range of adjustment. However, English was clearly an afterthought with these instructions.

Thank you for the correction and keeping things real.

[SportVier]

Thank you for the correction and keeping things real.

No worries. Figured this out after I was able to get to stock height with PSS9s on a B7 RS4, which makes sense given it probably sits >30mm lower than a B7 A4 out of the showroom.

[miztahsparklez]

I put OE springs on my stock struts initially. They were okay. After switching to bilstein B8s, I don't know why I didn't do it sooner.

Just don't do what I did and forego the front bumpstops. You need probably at least 1-1.5" of material to prevent the control arm from hitting the top of the strut tower lol.


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[Jroyalty7]

I thought I remember reading in one of these threads that you no longer needed to modify the bumpstops or is that just coilovers?

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[miztahsparklez]

If I put the bumpstop in without trimming, i would be riding on them in the front. Perhaps it's for coil overs you just don't put the bumpstops in.


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[Jroyalty7]

If I put the bumpstop in without trimming, i would be riding on them in the front. Perhaps it's for coil overs you just don't put the bumpstops in.


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http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=691354

Sorry for the late reply. This is the thread I read about the bumpstops on, post#30.

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[SR7D1]

I think the big issue for those of us with the ADS is the ride height. I can speak for myself in that I don't want to invest in a coil over since I already have an "adjustable" damper. So I (we) want to lower the car to something that looks much more sporty and aggressive, but not replace the ADS.

For those of you without the ADS, I wholeheartedly recommend replacing the pair (damper/spring) for the best ride and performance of the setup.

[fritze18]

If anyone is interested, I'm going to be posting my Bilstein B8 Sport dampers (front and rear) up for sale within the next couple of days. They were on my S4 for 1.5 years/9,500 miles. I'm also selling my H&R OE springs, which were only on for 14 months/7,300 miles (originally had H&R Sport springs on for 4 months). I'm trading my car in soon, so I'm parting it out. The spring/shock combination was perfect. Handling was greatly improved, and the car definitely maintained a stock ride quality. I had H&R springs and OEM dampers on my A4, and noticed they became bouncy within a year, so I didn't want to make the same mistake on my S4. PM me if you're interested, or if you have any questions about my experience with the combination.

[miztahsparklez]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=691354

Sorry for the late reply. This is the thread I read about the bumpstops on, post#30.

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Thanks.

I measured what's left. It's within .5" between stock and these...

Can't really get in with a tape measure, but it didn't seem like much of a difference with my crude measuring. My car also got a little lower so I have zero finger gap on these almost lol.

With my wheel compressed up like this, there was maybe 2" of total travel left, which is why I saw the top of the strut tower get hit. I figure 1.5" bump stop would be sufficient, giving me only an additional .5" or so of additional travel from this point. Putting the full bump stop would be too long, as I think I took it off after I saw there was only less than 1" of travel after the suspension was loaded.





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[MrFunk]

My thoughts and review...
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...wering-springs

[mmm def]

My thoughts and review...
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...wering-springs

Thanks for this!! I just added Bilstein to my H&R OE order and will be having them installed next week. Was really on the fence and now i feel 100% confident in my decision.

[BigBluu]

I'm looking to replace stock shocks/struts too. Noticed that the Koni sports are currently on sale at ECS for $480/full set, whereas Bilstein B8's are $742. That's a big difference. Are the Bilsteins worth an additional $260?

https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_S4...cks/ES2631383/

[Vanimal]

I'm looking to replace stock shocks/struts too. Noticed that the Koni sports are currently on sale at ECS for $480/full set, whereas Bilstein B8's are $742. That's a big difference. Are the Bilsteins worth an additional $260?

https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_S4...cks/ES2631383/

Looking for this exact info, I noticed they are on sale for a great price the Koni's.

They are also on sale 20% off on tire rack.

They are adjustable but need to be fully removed so not logical. But I heard most run them at "2clicks" if you drive on the street or a DD etc.


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[rulaxin12]

I am not running the koni's but have made the switch to the bilsteins. Let me just say, there is a noticeable difference in how the car handles bumps and undulations, the ride is more compliant and overall handling is improved with the bilstein and oe spring setup. I didn't really realize how harsh the ride was before, but bumps were very jarring and made a 'crashy' noise with the stock shocks. Now that is gone and I aim for potholes to see how it handles it!

[miztahsparklez]

I am not running the koni's but have made the switch to the bilsteins. Let me just say, there is a noticeable difference in how the car handles bumps and undulations, the ride is more compliant and overall handling is improved with the bilstein and oe spring setup. I didn't really realize how harsh the ride was before, but bumps were very jarring and made a 'crashy' noise with the stock shocks. Now that is gone and I aim for potholes to see how it handles it!

Don't aim too hard.. Lol