FYI, Cost of replacing the ZF 8HP fluid and the 3 differentials oil

[jrsAudiA6]

I have 66K + miles on my 2012 A6 and have tracked the car more than dozen times. So I became concerned about the transmission fluid. I contacted ZF thru their web site to get their thoughts when I should replace the fluid. They responded with the following.

For further processing of your request, we kindly ask for the following information:
Since you drive your vehicle hard and you've modded it, I'd suggest changing the fluid every 20-30k miles. If you track it all the time you may want to do it even more often. Most people are changing the fluid in normal driving situations at 60k miles or 8 years..

Please reply to this mail using the “Reply” button of you mail client – DO NOT CHANGE THE E-MAIL SUBJECT.
For further questions or updates please contact ZF Services North America, LLC., telephone: +1 847 478 6868.
Always provide your request ID when contacting us regarding this request, please.

Kind regards

Your ZF Service Desk
ZF Friedrichshafen AG
88038 Friedrichshafen,Germany

So, I inquired at my dealer as to what the cost would to change the transmission fluid/filter and 3 differentials oil. Did not get a very concise answer but did get their cost for the fluid which was $51 a liter. In any case I decided to purchase the filter and fluids thru ECS tuning. I purchased the ZF's Lifeguard8 fluid(9 liters), Motul gear 300 75w90 oil(3 liters), filter and transmission fill plug. Total cost was $682. Shipping was free.

I found local independent garage to the work saving $30/hour in labor. The actual labor time was just under 6 hours for $585. So the total cost was $1277 to have this work done, not cheap.
I will be sending a sample of the transmission fluid out for analysis to determine it's condition.

Prior to have the fluid replaced I was not experiencing any issues with the transmission but since I do track the track the car 2-4 times a year I was wanting to be cautious so that I did not have replace the transmission if I had catastrophic failure sometime down the road. Since the fluid replace I believe I am noticing a slight improvement in the smoothness of the shifting. Overall happy with the outcome but the analysis hopefully will determine how often I need to do this in the future.

[RRF985]

This is great information, IMO. I was thinking the other day that there must be some info on this. I don't believe in these "lifetime" fluids and will probably be changing them down the line sometime. It's interesting that they recommend every 60k or 8 years. You'd think Audi would put this in their service list somewhere. Thanks for posting this information.

[swope]

Thanks for posting this. Please let us know what you find out from the analysis.

[jrsAudiA6]

So, here is the transmission fluid analysis.

[IMG][/IMG]

[swope]

Good info. Thanks for sharing.

[JRomulus]

Thanks for posting this. I am coming up on 90k miles on my 2013 A6 3.0L and would like to keep this car long term. To me it only makes sense to change the ATF fluid. Here is the response I got from the local Audi dealer:

"Here is the estimate for the transmission service. It is a fluid and filter exchange with new gaskets and hardware. It is $1345.00 to perform the transmission service. Again, I did speak with a technician and he does not recommend performing this service as the new fluid will act as a detergent and may cause damage to the internal gears."

Didn't I see a picture somewhere of the pan having magnets that catch some of the metal bits? And what is with the "detergent" comment anyway? Thanks for any input.

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[RRF985]

Thanks for posting this. I am coming up on 90k miles on my 2013 A6 3.0L and would like to keep this car long term. To me it only makes sense to change the ATF fluid. Here is the response I got from the local Audi dealer:

"Here is the estimate for the transmission service. It is a fluid and filter exchange with new gaskets and hardware. It is $1345.00 to perform the transmission service. Again, I did speak with a technician and he does not recommend performing this service as the new fluid will act as a detergent and may cause damage to the internal gears."

Didn't I see a picture somewhere of the pan having magnets that catch some of the metal bits? And what is with the "detergent" comment anyway? Thanks for any input.

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IMO it's always been a myth of the 'new fluid causing damage to an old transmission.' If new fluid causes the trans to fail it was probably on it's way out anyway. The thought is that the new fluid will cause some of the deposits to come loose and interfere with things and break the trans. I'm right around 52,xxx miles and I'm going to change the fluid in mine just for piece of mind. I've never bought into this whole "lifetime" fluid thing. Change your fluid and i'm sure your trans will be happy for it.

[SHR]

+1^ I agree 100% that changing the fluid is a good thing and shouldn't have any negative impact on the transmission, however there is a procedure that needs to be followed. You've got to ensure that you are filling it to the recommended level while the fluid is at a specific temperature range, and the only way to do this is with VCDS or a factory tool. I found a great post that includes everything you need to know to perform the transmission service found here, be sure to click on all of the links:

http://carltonbale.com/audi-s4s5s6s7...hange-details/

For context, while a completely different transmission, I purchased a 98 B5 A4 1.8TQA with 175k miles for my son, the car was pretty rough. I read all about the warnings to not change the fluid because I would surely ruin the tranny because of disturbing the metals and assorted repercussions. I did it anyway, and in fact I changed it out again after 10k miles just to flush it out. The first change found nasty black fluid with lots of crud in it. The magnets looked like porcupines and I could write words in the sludge on the pan. The second change at 10k was a different experience, the fluid was pretty dark but certainly not black, and there was no sludge, and the magnets did not have metal shavings that I could feel, I'm sure there was something there but nothing measurable. Its been 2 years since and the tranny runs perfectly.

The outcome is that the 18 year old B5 shifts as smooth as my 2013 C7 with 60k miles and may shift better at this point.

Regarding the cost which is the title of this thread, the OEM fluid is stupid expensive, I used the Blauparts kit for my B5 which was less than half the cost of OEM and haven't decided yet if I'll use OEM or Blauparts kit for my C7.

I'll be changing out my C7 ATF within the next 6 months or so and I'll report back afterwards. I hope this info helps.

[jrsAudiA6]

Further follow up since replacing the transmission fluid. I have put about 9K miles on the car since the change. The transmission is performing just fine. I have been to 2 track events and have experienced no issues with the transmission.

[RRF985]

I found a great post that includes everything you need to know to perform the transmission service found here, be sure to click on all of the links:

http://carltonbale.com/audi-s4s5s6s7...hange-details/

FYI this procedure is for the 7-speed S-Tronic, not the ZF 8-speed that is in your car.

[AllroadCorbin]

I actually made a thread about this last year that if I can find again I'll post the link. I went through a ton of shit with AoA and spent hours on the phone with ZF asking questions and getting answers. Basically yes you must drain it and fill it. 60-80k is the ideal range. AoA only claims its lifetime to make the cars seem cheaper to maintain. It's total bullshit. I drained mine, swapped filters and all that jazz and it ran a lot better. Bad fluid doesn't lubricate and causes it to get too hot.

PS only use LifeGaurd.


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[P_G]

Interesting, I too asked about the ZF and Audi UK say it is sealed and for the lifetime of the box and then try top put you off by saying the cost of the oil is £400/liter.

Changed ATF and MTF fluids at around £100 + VAT each as part of my 40k mile service.

[SHR]

FYI this procedure is for the 7-speed S-Tronic, not the ZF 8-speed that is in your car.

Thanks for pointing this out. Do you or anyone have the specs to change out the ZF fluid? I'm primarily looking for the temp range to check the level and the torque settings for the filter and pan bolts. Thanks again.

[audi bug]

Thanks for pointing this out. Do you or anyone have the specs to change out the ZF fluid? I'm primarily looking for the temp range to check the level and the torque settings for the filter and pan bolts. Thanks again.

Correct temp range to check ATF level is 35 °C to 45 °C (95 °F - 113 °F). Hot climate countries maximum 50 °C (122 °F).
Filter is not secured with any bolt. I haven't done replacement so not sure exact mechanism of securing the filter, but it appears to be sandwiched by valve body and ATF pan.
There are three steps to for securing the 12 ATF pan bolts (need to use new bolts):

1. Install the new bolts by hand
2. tighten to 4*Nm following AFT pan bolt tighten order
3. tighten 45° additional turn following AFT pan bolt tighten order

ATF pan bolts tightening order:
Download this Q5 specification book and check the transmission section page 76.

http://www.audiworld.com/forums/atta...-spec-book.pdf

[SHR]

^ thanks audi bug, that's what I was looking for.


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[audi bug]

^ thanks audi bug, that's what I was looking for.


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You are welcome!

OMG, I realized I mixed ATF pan and ATF fan!
And just edited

[dc2002]

I did trans fluid and filter on my old B5 A4 and my old B7 S4 and the filter was just a pressure fit sealed with a rubber o ring/gasket in the trans where you shove the filter tube up. There is a lip that the filter tube "stops" at.

Be careful not to dislodge the o-ring/gasket - I remember i did that on the S4 and it took me like 15 minutes to fish it out as it got shoved up the hole a ways and caused a minor freak out.

All in all not a horrible job...hardest part was keeping the gasket lined up on the pan while starting the first couple bolts.

I havent decided if i will do mine or go to an indy shop...i am sure the dealer would be outrageous.

I am just at 50K now and will want to at least do the trans by 60K.

Correct temp range to check ATF level is 35 °C to 45 °C (95 °F - 113 °F). Hot climate countries maximum 50 °C (122 °F).
Filter is not secured with any bolt. I haven't done replacement so not sure exact mechanism of securing the filter, but it appears to be sandwiched by valve body and ATF pan.
There are three steps to for securing the 12 ATF pan bolts (need to use new bolts):

1. Install the new bolts by hand
2. tighten to 4*Nm following AFT pan bolt tighten order
3. tighten 45° additional turn following AFT pan bolt tighten order

ATF pan bolts tightening order:
Download this Q5 specification book and check the transmission section page 76.

http://www.audiworld.com/forums/atta...-spec-book.pdf

[A4 Centaur]

Did my 8 speed Tiptronic at 25k with filter and BG conditioner cost: $1,100 with oil report. Just did Lifeguard oil in transmission was $670 from Audi Dealer. Center diff and other are 90 weight oil? Can't remember the cost of those.

It's preventative maintenance in my opinion, and that philosophy has served me well over many different platforms and engine types.

[JRomulus]

Changed today at 90,000 miles. Half of which are highway. Only tracked once when new. Seemed pretty smooth on the way home from the dealer, nothing unusual. Will see how the results come back.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zu71jrlkat...Small.jpg?dl=0

[audi bug]

Changed today at 90,000 miles. Half of which are highway. Only tracked once when new. Seemed pretty smooth on the way home from the dealer, nothing unusual. Will see how the results come back.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zu71jrlkat...Small.jpg?dl=0

How many quarts of ATF was replaced?
Can you list the part numbers and cost?
Thanks.
I am thinking about to changing them too.

[JRomulus]

How many quarts of ATF was replaced?
Can you list the part numbers and cost?
Thanks.
I am thinking about to changing them too.

Sure:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ebhcl2tvxl...00000.pdf?dl=0

[audi bug]

Sure:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ebhcl2tvxl...00000.pdf?dl=0

Thank you very much for the info.
I am surprised to see that 8 quarts were used for ATF.
Fluid capacity guide says 9 quarts for new fill and 4 quarts for drain and refill.
If that is the case, 1st drain & fill yields 44% new oil, 2nd drain and fill 69% new oil, and 3rd change give you 83% new oil.
Did you ask for two drain and refill?
I will be doing maybe three drain and refill. I will drop the pan to clean it and replace filter in the 1st change, but 2nd and 3rd will be drain and refill only.

Did you decide not to do fluid change for final drive and transfer case?

[JRomulus]

They must have done 2 drains then. They had it for half the day.
Will see how the fluid report comes back.
Not at this time for FD and TC.


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[audi bug]

I found a second source for filter kit.

Pelican Parts has a filter kit from ZF (ZF 1087.298.368) for about the half price of Audi part (0BK398009A) .
It also include a drain plug and a fill plug.

[BOPOH]

Full kit - $350 Blauparts used them before for B6 parts and oils

[DoItAllGarage]

sub'd

[code7rpd]

Very informative post - thanks!

[varanone]

In case anyone's looking now, FCP Euro has Audi Genuine ZF 8HP transmission fluid for $34.xx a quart. They have several kits from ZF oil and filter to Audi brand filter and oil and other aftermarket manufacturers, but the Audi Genuine is on a really good sale.

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[jrp916]

Has anyone that is on the fence of actually replacing the fluid, just done a drain and fill and leave the filter? It seems like a much less amount of effort and you only take out about 4 quarts.

Also when removing the filter was it very dirty/clogged?

[p3u]

Has anyone that is on the fence of actually replacing the fluid, just done a drain and fill and leave the filter? It seems like a much less amount of effort and you only take out about 4 quarts.

Also when removing the filter was it very dirty/clogged?

I personally did a drain and fill and after ~1,000 miles performed another drain and at that time replaced the filter.

Reason being is you'll only get about 2/3rds the fluid out when performing this as a significant amount of trans fluid remains in the torque converter.

I'd recommend this method if over 60k miles. Perhaps a bit excessive, but I prefer to error on the side of caution.

[jrp916]

I personally did a drain and fill and after ~1,000 miles performed another drain and at that time replaced the filter.

Reason being is you'll only get about 2/3rds the fluid out when performing this as a significant amount of trans fluid remains in the torque converter.

I'd recommend this method if over 60k miles. Perhaps a bit excessive, but I prefer to error on the side of caution.

Do you recall how dirty your filter was when pulling it out? I’m wondering if this is suppose to be a lifetime setup from Audi is replacing the filter necessary?


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[gk1]

Do you recall how dirty your filter was when pulling it out? I’m wondering if this is suppose to be a lifetime setup from Audi is replacing the filter necessary?


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FWIW Audi considers the trans fluid and filter "lifetime". ZF (the manufacturer) would beg to differ since I know they offer a service direct from ZF in Germany.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbcUrDws0aE
In the US there are likely far more traditional ZF automatic Audis out there driving around with 100k+ mileages who did NOT change their trans fluid and filter and are running just fine Do I personally believe it is a "lifetime" fill...no...but it also depends on who's lifetime. Lifetime of original owner...of track junkie...of little old lady...
Like others if you plan to keep the car long term then a fluid and filter change is minimal. Dealers don't hesitate to do it if asked (paying). As others pointed out... saying it is "lifetime" likely allows for it not to be included in any service plans.
I like to say the trans fluid/filter is expected to last the"lifetime" of the trans fluid/filter...whatever that might be. >50k but <300k maybe?

[p3u]

Do you recall how dirty your filter was when pulling it out? I’m wondering if this is suppose to be a lifetime setup from Audi is replacing the filter necessary?


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Filter was filthy. The 60k interval that ZF specifies should be followed vs. Audi's lifetime recommendation.

[jrp916]

Filter was filthy. The 60k interval that ZF specifies should be followed vs. Audi's lifetime recommendation.

Thanks! Sounds like I will be doing this soon. Looks like the Meyle filter is much more reasonably priced too.


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