Stage 2 E85 on 551F (NO HPFP UPGRADE)?

**GRUMPY-S4** · 03-10-2016 06:50 PM

Anyone doing this?

**Hofahome** · 03-10-2016 07:01 PM

Excuse my ignorance but what does 551F refer to?

**LINDW4LL** · 03-10-2016 07:06 PM

Grumpy, please stop with the endless thread creation.

Without a HPFP upgrade, you will start throwing lean codes at somewhere around 40% E85.

**HeymyAudi** · 03-10-2016 07:10 PM

Spoke with Tony about this yesterday and he said you would NEED the HPFP ... Hence why Im just going to run Stage I until i get the pump in..

**theswoleguy** · 03-10-2016 07:27 PM

I think it's hit or miss pending year. Mines having rail pressure issues just in stage 1. Comes and goes though as weather is all over the place

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**GRUMPY-S4** · 03-10-2016 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by LINDW4LL

Grumpy, please stop with the endless thread creation.

Without a HPFP upgrade, you will start throwing lean codes at somewhere around 40% E85.

On Stage 2???

I doubt its that low.

**GRUMPY-S4** · 03-10-2016 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by theswoleguy

I think it's hit or miss pending year. Mines having rail pressure issues just in stage 1. Comes and goes though as weather is all over the place

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Thats what I thought. Hence I wanted to see if anyone had logged. I plan on flashing stage 2 And running about E70ish and log to see what happens. If I throw a code I will will top off with 93 and get down to like E38 until I get the pump.

**GRUMPY-S4** · 03-10-2016 08:01 PM

Ive been running Stage 1 E85 with about E82 and have had no issued at all. So Im optimistic that maybe my car can run about E70 with no pump

**GRUMPY-S4** · 03-10-2016 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Hofahome

Excuse my ignorance but what does 551F refer to?

Its one of the ECU box codes

**GRUMPY-S4** · 03-10-2016 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by LINDW4LL

Grumpy, please stop with the endless thread creation.

Why? This is a valid and useful thread. So dont read it if it bothers you. Geez

**ntsantos** · 03-10-2016 08:05 PM

I actually just filled up 10 minutes ago. I used 15 gallons e85 and the rest 91 oct. No codes, no upgraded hpfp.

I just bought a hpfp, and testing my limits without it.

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**brianc21** · 03-10-2016 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by GRUMPY-S4

Why? This is a valid and useful thread. So dont read it if it bothers you. Geez

No, no it's not.

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**GRUMPY-S4** · 03-10-2016 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by brianc21

No, no it's not.

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Whatever dude

**GRUMPY-S4** · 03-10-2016 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by ntsantos

I actually just filled up 10 minutes ago. I used 15 gallons e85 and the rest 91 oct. No codes, no upgraded hpfp.

I just bought a hpfp, and testing my limits without it.

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Stage 2 E85????

**ntsantos** · 03-10-2016 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by GRUMPY-S4

Stage 2 E85????

Yessir

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**GRUMPY-S4** · 03-10-2016 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by ntsantos

Yessir

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What year is your car? 551F ECU? Your running Tony's normal stage 2 E85 tune or the regular Stage 2 Tune?

**ntsantos** · 03-10-2016 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by GRUMPY-S4

What year is your car? 551F ECU? Your running Tony's normal stage 2 E85 tune or the regular Stage 2 Tune?

2012 A7. I'm running GIAC stage 2 right now, but working with Tony on a E85 tune. It should be ready soon. It would be nice to be able to run all e85 without the hpfp upgrade, but I have an Autotech ready to go just in case.

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**GRUMPY-S4** · 03-10-2016 08:47 PM

Nice!!!!!!

**Loe** · 03-10-2016 08:53 PM

Im guessing it's tune dependent. I can only get to E38 (37.7) before I throw that ugly lean code. However, as you can see in my sig, E38 does just fine.

**Acejam** · 03-10-2016 09:57 PM

Another day, another Grumpy thread...

**Hofahome** · 03-10-2016 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Acejam

Another day, another Grumpy thread...

It's now Grumpyzine

**JeromeS13** · 03-10-2016 10:33 PM

I love lamp.

**Hofahome** · 03-10-2016 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by JeromeS13

I love lamp.

Ha! LOUD NOISES!

**sonic32** · 03-10-2016 10:49 PM

Giac stage 2 2012 b8 threw lean codes on both banks, a misfire code and a cylinder deactivation code with around e40 in the tank, 9.4 gallons 93 and rest e85 around 6.5 gallons. Also pulled logs and didn't look too good.

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**JeromeS13** · 03-10-2016 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by hofahome

ha! Loud noises!

i don't know what we're yelling about!!!!

**Mat@1975** · 03-10-2016 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by LINDW4LL

Grumpy, please stop with the endless thread creation.

Without a HPFP upgrade, you will start throwing lean codes at somewhere around 40% E85.

Hello,

I think we must clearly separate two different situation, i often read some partial info on this.

1) If you have a standard pump map , you will face to 2 limitations: the fuel trims and the fuel pump. BUT: the fuel trims will be out of their normal range (in the E40 ish range) far before the Fuel pump is a limitation, thus leading to a CEL or error code DUE TO THE FUEL TRIMS.

2) If you have a specific E85 Map, the only remaining limitation will be the fuel pump, as fuel trims limits had been properly adressed with the specific tune. IN THIS CASE YOU MUST RUN ONLY 100 % E85 fuel, not mixes !!
(because, for example, timing tables have been set verry agressive like on a race map). And finally, the question is : Does the stock HPFP can handle this E85 map, stg ? stg2 ? It seems that there is no real consensus on this.

Am I right ?

Best Regards,

Mathieu

**Loe** · 03-11-2016 04:10 AM

Hi Mat,

Thats a great question, one that i would like to know as well. If #1 is indeed true, then that would mean that upgrading the HPFP without proper software would be a waste of time.

**Mat@1975** · 03-11-2016 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by Loe

Hi Mat,

... upgrading the HPFP without proper software would be a waste of time.

Yes, exactly, unless you prepare your car to a future E85 tune.

Another thing i would like to mention, in addition, is that it is not always a benefit to run the maximum possible (without CEL) amount of E85 mix with a pump map or stock map (non E85 specific)

There is a rough concensus that the limit before CEL with a non specific E85 Tune is in the E35-E40 area.
BUT: depending of how much your pump tune is agressive, there will not always be benefits. If you don't pull timing with pump 93 gas, you will not see much benefit.
If your tune is a little bit agressive in timing (like the latest version of the APR) then, you will see more serious improvements.

If fact you have to log the timing pull corrections with incremental % of E85 to know your optimal Ethanol blend composition.
When you reach no more timing pulls, adding more E85 will be useless.

BR,

Mat

**GRUMPY-S4** · 03-11-2016 05:35 AM

E85 is much cheaper... So even if your timing logs say no benefit beyond a point... Your wallet says otherwise.

The fact that there is no consensus on needing or not needing the HPFP is why I asked the question.

Im hoping to be able to log soon and see what we get on stage 2 E85 without the pump upgrade.

**scottycs** · 03-11-2016 06:36 AM

Cheaper per gallon, but your mpg will drop considerably.

**sangaroo** · 03-11-2016 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by Hofahome

It's now Grumpyzine

Don't mess with Texas

**GRUMPY-S4** · 03-11-2016 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by scottycs

Cheaper per gallon, but your mpg will drop considerably.

In my case they dropped about 20%

While the cost of the fuel is about 40% cheaper... So overall its cheaper

**GRUMPY-S4** · 03-11-2016 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by sangaroo

Don't mess with Texas

Everything is bigger and better here lol

**Loe** · 03-11-2016 06:56 AM

I don't find the tread useless at all. Keep the information coming, I'd rather have it all in one thread versus searching multiple threads.

mat, have you tried the APR race with an E85 blend?

**Mat@1975** · 03-11-2016 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Loe

I don't find the tread useless at all. Keep the information coming, I'd rather have it all in one thread versus searching multiple threads.

mat, have you tried the APR race with an E85 blend?

Hi loe.

Indeed I found by logging that apr stg 1 pump tune is already a race map ! !😃

That s why I loaded the 91 map even if I always run 93 fuel. I tried the 93 map with some E85 and the timing request was crazy. (28° at red line if I remember )

Here is the story
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=673642

BR

Mat

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**s4buckeye** · 03-11-2016 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by LINDW4LL

Grumpy, please stop with the endless thread creation.

Without a HPFP upgrade, you will start throwing lean codes at somewhere around 40% E85.

+1000

yet another new and waste of time/space Grumpy thread. instead of searching for 5 seconds and finding the thread on this that HAS BEEN ACTIVE FOR 2.5 YEARS, it is easier to be lazy and make a new one.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-and-negatives

Anthony, Kevin, et al. - are you ever going to put a stop to this nonsense?

**scottycs** · 03-11-2016 09:53 AM

Almost every topic has been answered at one time or another. Let's just lock the forum so we don't create more redundancies.

**schirm** · 03-11-2016 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by GRUMPY-S4

Thats what I thought. Hence I wanted to see if anyone had logged. I plan on flashing stage 2 And running about E70ish and log to see what happens. If I throw a code I will will top off with 93 and get down to like E38 until I get the pump.

Originally Posted by GRUMPY-S4

Ive been running Stage 1 E85 with about E82 and have had no issued at all. So Im optimistic that maybe my car can run about E70 with no pump

Originally Posted by GRUMPY-S4

Its one of the ECU box codes

Originally Posted by GRUMPY-S4

Why? This is a valid and useful thread. So dont read it if it bothers you. Geez

You know you can quote multiple people at once instead of making a bunch of reply in a row.

**GRUMPY-S4** · 03-11-2016 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by s4buckeye

+1000

yet another new and waste of time/space Grumpy thread. instead of searching for 5 seconds and finding the thread on this that HAS BEEN ACTIVE FOR 2.5 YEARS, it is easier to be lazy and make a new one.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-and-negatives

Anthony, Kevin, et al. - are you ever going to put a stop to this nonsense?

Nowhere in that thread do they speak about my ECU code with EPL and having logged stage 2 without a HPFP Upgrade.