Thinking of getting the ABT piggyback...

[khyungs]

But I can't seem to shake off the 4.5k price tag.

I've tried searching for ABT related threads or comparison reviews vs APR and GIAC etc to no avail.

Maybe someone who has it can convince me to get it? Or talk me out of it?

Btw, the only mod thus far:

[SteveYem]

I don't have it but I can very confidently recommend against spending that much for a piggyback or any tune for that matter. It won't cost you more than $2000 to go Stage2.

[GRUMPY-S4]

How does that piggyback compare to the $400 CW?

[shoe3k]

That is a lot of cash to drop on a piggyback with no track record. I would go with what has been proven and do not rush the decision. There are plenty of threads that cover what tunes have been working well.

[jcdeng]

How does that piggyback compare to the $400 CW?

+1

[TomPaul10]

holy sh*t.... a 4.5K piggyback tune... i wouldn't ever pay that much for any tune of that matter thats insanity. if your going the piggyback route CW (chipwerkes) is used by many on this forum.

[blackfunk]

Whoa. So being devils advocate here - why does flashing the RS7 cost as much then? Getting fleeced? LOL

[TomPaul10]

3K to tune up an RS7, Idk why but my GUESS is because of R&D, and to compensate on the fact that probably most people aren't tuning their RS7 so they have to inflate price a bit on their end.

[AudBoost]

The ABT piggyback is not even close to being in the same ballpark as the CW. ABT is basically a second ECU that runs along side the OEM ECU and has full CAN-Bus integration. I still think the price tag is a bit ridiculous as the BMW world has been running a system like this for years with devices at a quarter of the cost (mainly the JB4). If you are going to fork over money like that I would contact a company called Syvecs. Their engine management system is on an entire different planet compared to the options that are currently offered now. I know they have an R8 option so I am not sure if they offer one for the S4, but would never hurt to ask. I can't find the video I saw of the R8 demo but here is their demo for an N54. Pretty amazing stuff but really expensive.

[mrmomo313]

Any reason you want a piggy over flash tune? You are prepared to drop 4.5k on an essentially unproven product with no real track record, proven performance data or significant user feedback before spending 2k on the most proven tunes for this platform (APR/GIAC)??? Doesn't make sense to me

[AudBoost]

Any reason you want a piggy over flash tune? You are prepared to drop 4.5k on an essentially unproven product with no real track record, proven performance data or significant user feedback before spending 2k on the most proven tunes for this platform (APR/GIAC)??? Doesn't make sense to me

A lot of nice features that can be done with a fully integrated piggyback versus a flash tune. One of the biggest features is on the fly map switching. Then you have auto learning, control over CAN-Bus systems, etc... However, piggybacks are still limited by the OEM ECU. Piggybacks can't change any of the OEM parameters it can only manipulate the signals. For example... if you turn up the boost via the piggyback and the car needs more fuel well you would need a flash to adjust the fueling table. There definitely pros and cons to both.

[shoe3k]

A lot of nice features that can be done with a fully integrated piggyback versus a flash tune. One of the biggest features is on the fly map switching. Then you have auto learning, control over CAN-Bus systems, etc... However, piggybacks are still limited by the OEM ECU. Piggybacks can't change any of the OEM parameters it can only manipulate the signals. For example... if you turn up the boost via the piggyback and the car needs more fuel well you would need a flash to adjust the fueling table. There definitely pros and cons to both.

You would be surprised how well the ECU adjusts even when a piggpack turns up the boost. With a piggy back, the ECU becomes a reactive system.

[AudBoost]

You would be surprised how well the ECU adjusts even when a piggpack turns up the boost. With a piggy back, the ECU becomes a reactive system.

I totally agree, but in a situation where the piggyback could possibly reach past the limits of the stock ECU a flash would be needed. This would be more of an example of a car with larger supercharger or larger turbo setup running a piggyback.

[doug97gxe]

So its not a piggyback its a full standalone .. i had a full standalone on my 350z ... HKS Fcon Vpro $3k .. it was wonderful .. it made the transition to boost over my previous piggyback UTEC $800 seamless .. it worked perfectly with the ECU .. but i had a constant CEL (could have been coded out) because some sensors couldn't be controlled by the Stand alone..

let me give you an idea of why you would buy an ABT vs lets say an ECU Tune...

First and foremost an ECU tune is going to be the safest and best bet 99.99999% of the time over a piggyback or full Standalone ... the ECU is the brain of the car.. you want the brain of your car to be aware of everything at all times and to control everything at all time.. something goes wrong.. the brain is what is controlling it and knows how to fix it at that very moment.. no delay .. no issues

Full Standalone is to take you beyond what your ECU can do... it will fine tune your car down to the perfect AF Ratio.. fuel curves .. ignition timing .. you ever see racers with laptops in their cars with crazy graphs and what not.. more than likely they are using a full stand alone..

once you go beyond stage 2 .. lets say custom turbo setup .. full built motor .. to the point where the ECU is no longer able to control boost or give you the perfect AF ratio.. then you go full standalone .. that's why this product is $4500 or if you want to custom tune your car yourself .. dyno and road tune.. nothing canned .. though i must say the canned tunes are very impressive for this platform

[bhvrdr]

So its not a piggyback its a full standalone .. i had a full standalone on my 350z ... HKS Fcon Vpro $3k .. it was wonderful .. it made the transition to boost over my previous piggyback UTEC $800 seamless .. it worked perfectly with the ECU .. but i had a constant CEL (could have been coded out) because some sensors couldn't be controlled by the Stand alone..

let me give you an idea of why you would buy an ABT vs lets say an ECU Tune...

First and foremost an ECU tune is going to be the safest and best bet 99.99999% of the time over a piggyback or full Standalone ... the ECU is the brain of the car.. you want the brain of your car to be aware of everything at all times and to control everything at all time.. something goes wrong.. the brain is what is controlling it and knows how to fix it at that very moment.. no delay .. no issues

Full Standalone is to take you beyond what your ECU can do... it will fine tune your car down to the perfect AF Ratio.. fuel curves .. ignition timing .. you ever see racers with laptops in their cars with crazy graphs and what not.. more than likely they are using a full stand alone..

once you go beyond stage 2 .. lets say custom turbo setup .. full built motor .. to the point where the ECU is no longer able to control boost or give you the perfect AF ratio.. then you go full standalone .. that's why this product is $4500 or if you want to custom tune your car yourself .. dyno and road tune.. nothing canned .. though i must say the canned tunes are very impressive for this platform

Its not a standalone. A standalone replaces the ECU. It receives the sensor data, provides the signal interpretation and gives commands directly. A piggyback acts as an intermediary and modifies the signal interpretation. This is a piggy back. A much more sophisticated one than CW, RC, JB1, etc but its a piggy like the MTM unit for the S4.


To the OP:
A sophisticated piggy like the one you are looking at can do some really great things BUT it can also have the similar drawbacks that both a piggy and a flash tune can have. Because it is CAN integrated and also can hijack more sensors you have a more complex set of interactions that are taking place and consequently much more added difficulty making things work correctly. The MTM piggy didnt provide significant gains on the US car that it was tried on...

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...omorrow/page24

Interestingly, Car and Drivers drive of it also was less than spectacular...


http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...briolet-review

Now that doesnt mean the units, when working correctly, won't perform every bit as well as the best tunes out there right now, but it does mean that there were certainly some teething issues that really havent been proven to be worked out yet.

The positive side is that if you can get this unit running correctly for our cars it may provide all the benefits of a flash tune but with the addition of never having touched the ECU code and also the possibility of not having jerkiness found in lower sophistication units like the CW that only hijack the map sensor. It certainly is a gamble though.

If it were me, i'd make sure they have a no questions asked return policy and be ready to do some logging, before/after dyno or 1/4 mile testing right when you get it to make sure it works well. Honestly i'd try the cheap piggy first though.

Mike

[mavz]

That is a lot of cash to drop on a piggyback with no track record. I would go with what has been proven and do not rush the decision. There are plenty of threads that cover what tunes have been working well.

No idea what the track record for this tune is but I think ABT is a pretty well known in Europe.

But I still agree, there's no real reason to spend so much when gains are going to be similar.

[CrownSeven]

Since its by ABT - not sure that would work on a US spec car. Thought MTM had issues running their piggy back on US cars?

[blazeblunts4]

A lot of nice features that can be done with a fully integrated piggyback versus a flash tune. One of the biggest features is on the fly map switching. Then you have auto learning, control over CAN-Bus systems, etc... However, piggybacks are still limited by the OEM ECU. Piggybacks can't change any of the OEM parameters it can only manipulate the signals. For example... if you turn up the boost via the piggyback and the car needs more fuel well you would need a flash to adjust the fueling table. There definitely pros and cons to both.

What are you talking about? GIAC does on the fly switching. I do it on the freeway all the time

[LINDW4LL]

I've tried searching for ABT related threads or comparison reviews vs APR and GIAC etc to no avail.

Honestly, I have no clue why you'd even consider this. The only thing REMOTELY attractive about their offering is that they offer some sort of warranty for the first two years from the in-service date, or 60,000 miles (whichever comes first), although Im not sure that's even applicable in the US.

[doug97gxe]

Its not a standalone. A standalone replaces the ECU. It receives the sensor data, provides the signal interpretation and gives commands directly. A piggyback acts as an intermediary and modifies the signal interpretation. This is a piggy back. A much more sophisticated one than CW, RC, JB1, etc but its a piggy like the MTM unit for the S4.


To the OP:
A sophisticated piggy like the one you are looking at can do some really great things BUT it can also have the similar drawbacks that both a piggy and a flash tune can have. Because it is CAN integrated and also can hijack more sensors you have a more complex set of interactions that are taking place and consequently much more added difficulty making things work correctly. The MTM piggy didnt provide significant gains on the US car that it was tried on...

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...omorrow/page24

Interestingly, Car and Drivers drive of it also was less than spectacular...


http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...briolet-review

Now that doesnt mean the units, when working correctly, won't perform every bit as well as the best tunes out there right now, but it does mean that there were certainly some teething issues that really havent been proven to be worked out yet.

The positive side is that if you can get this unit running correctly for our cars it may provide all the benefits of a flash tune but with the addition of never having touched the ECU code and also the possibility of not having jerkiness found in lower sophistication units like the CW that only hijack the map sensor. It certainly is a gamble though.

If it were me, i'd make sure they have a no questions asked return policy and be ready to do some logging, before/after dyno or 1/4 mile testing right when you get it to make sure it works well. Honestly i'd try the cheap piggy first though.

Mike

Well then my apologies to all reading my post for this misrepresentation of this product I should have read more info on it before posting


Also Mike the standalone doesn't have to replace the ECU it just controls the engine and drive train components the ECU still controls the electronics such as Windows radio and lights .. That's how it worked in my 350z


Sent from my iPhone8s using Tapatalk

[bhvrdr]

Well then my apologies to all reading my post for this misrepresentation of this product I should have read more info on it before posting


Also Mike the standalone doesn't have to replace the ECU it just controls the engine and drive train components the ECU still controls the electronics such as Windows radio and lights .. That's how it worked in my 350z


Sent from my iPhone8s using Tapatalk

Right on. Sounds like your 350z was no joke.

Mike

[AudBoost]

What are you talking about? GIAC does on the fly switching. I do it on the freeway all the time

I stand corrected. I didn't realize GIAC had this feature but it is not a common feature with most flash tunes.

[dansjuice]

I got the 034 tune and have a CW for $300 if your interested. PM me.

[waxxonMTL]

I got the 034 tune and have a CW for $300 if your interested. PM me.

how much did the 034 cost ?

[khyungs]

Thanks for the responses. I decided to use the money towards APR and 034 parts for the time being, and see where it goes from there. /peace

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[14S4GWM]

how much did the 034 cost ?

He's a test goat.